C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

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Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Darklor » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:49 pm

kira0802 wrote:Hum, Darklor? Did I write this?


Hm, obviously not really but that was what I got clicking quote dunno why...

Cosmic Eagle wrote:
Yes...definitely more here....Japan being our major trade partner and all....


Ones that hasnt signed the copyright agreement

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Cosmic Eagle » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:04 pm

Darklor wrote:
kira0802 wrote:FTAs and other trade agreements would also allow them to enforce legalities outside Japan....so even if you move the server to Asia or Europe....


I think it would have to be more Asia than Europe...


Yes...definitely more here....Japan being our major trade partner and all....

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Kira0802 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:59 pm

Hum, Darklor? Did I write this?

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Darklor » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:58 pm

Cosmic Eagle wrote:FTAs and other trade agreements would also allow them to enforce legalities outside Japan....so even if you move the server to Asia or Europe....


I think it would have to be more Asia than Europe with the EU are not many European states left where that would be possible maybe RU...

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Poke2201 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:11 am

I thought ZnT was Seven Seas, who is STILL sitting on their license.

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Cosmic Eagle » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:59 am

Doraneko wrote:The Kadokawa Group, which controls the major light novel labels including Dengeki, Fujimi, Sneaker and Famitsu, practically holds almost 80% share of the entire light novel market. If they want they can easily designate the English rights to its US branch and then send us a C&D requiring all current and future titles from the above labels to be removed from this site.

This has happened before to Animesuki, which received a C&D from Media Factory delivered from Japan and has since then refrained from listing any MF work (so yea the US branch part in my previous scenario is redundant if no lawsuit is intended). The difference is that the market size of Media Factory in the anime sector is totally incomparable with the influence of Kadokawa in the light novel sector, explaining why AS managed to come out almost unscratched. In contrast Kadokawa is the copyright mammoth in the light novel industry.

More fun would ensure if MF cooperated with Kadokawa and sent us a C&D to ban both Kadokawa and MF light novel titles. By that time B-T would have nothing left except these forums. :lol:

On one hand, their chance of them bringing the whole thing to the court is low. On the other hand, their cost of sending us a C&D is also far from high. It has been the practice of B-T to be complying to legal requests and I don't see how it would change in the future. In that sense, they can easily put an end to our activities at a whim. We are literally at their mercy.


FTAs and other trade agreements would also allow them to enforce legalities outside Japan....so even if you move the server to Asia or Europe....

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Kira0802 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:46 am

Teh_ping wrote:Partly due to the publisher and how dedicated they are in promoting the series. Haruhi, S&W and Bungaku Shoujo? Yen Press. Shana and ZnT? Viz media...


Not to forget that Yen Press is actually a branch of Groupe Hachette, and Groupe Hachette is way more important in terms o book publishing. They know how to do things right.

Teh_ping wrote:However, with .pdfs running rampant out there, I don't think anyone in the right mind will think of licensing Index or any of our current series now.(Though I heard of people in the US printing the translated versions as books and selling them for US$10, which to be honest, I'm a little more than annoyed.) There's no competition. Would you want to pay $15 and wait 6 months for one book or wait for 2 weeks and get one volume for free?


Actually, licensed books could still sell, if they are popular. Haruhi has relatively good sales, because its promotion was easy to do. Many people like the published version, since it's more 'official' and contains less mistakes. However, Index didn't reach North America as Haruhi did. I know it well enough, since I'm living there. My friends know Haruhi, but not Index as much. However, I wouldn't comapare them, since on a LN list, Index is 19/20 on an elite level and Haruhi, 20/20 on a franchise level. It wouldn't be fine to compare each other.

While Yen Press hit jackpot with mainly those three titles, who are all in the top 10-20 in the 21st century(Haruhi, BS and S&W), Tokyopop was struggling with its sales and thus, had to close in NA. And viz simply licensed a novel or two, and hoped that it would magically sell.

Thus, I think that Groupe Hachette is a great company.

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Teh_ping » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:59 am

Partly due to the publisher and how dedicated they are in promoting the series. Haruhi, S&W and Bungaku Shoujo? Yen Press. Shana and ZnT? Viz media...

However, with .pdfs running rampant out there, I don't think anyone in the right mind will think of licensing Index or any of our current series now.(Though I heard of people in the US printing the translated versions as books and selling them for US$10, which to be honest, I'm a little more than annoyed.) There's no competition. Would you want to pay $15 and wait 6 months for one book or wait for 2 weeks and get one volume for free?

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Kira0802 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:08 am

Poke2201 wrote:It would be exceptionally funny if English/Japanese publishers are using us for market research now wouldn't it? :lol:

I think they are, Poke. Publishers need to look everywhere to ensure that their books will sell.

Haruhi, Bugaku Shoujo and Spice&Wolf were originally hosted here, right? And they all succeded. However, some novels, though popular at BT, have failed. Think of Zero no Tsukaima and Shankugan no Shana, just to name two.

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by rpapo » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:00 am

Poke2201 wrote:It would be exceptionally funny if English/Japanese publishers are using us for market research now wouldn't it? :lol:

We've chatted about the subject many times now. Of particular interest is the periodic report of page hit counts. It may actually have played a part in why we were served a C&D with regards to Suzimiya Haruhi.

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Poke2201 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:12 pm

It would be exceptionally funny if English/Japanese publishers are using us for market research now wouldn't it? :lol:

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by rpapo » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:31 am

Doraneko wrote:Indeed. That is why the copyright holders have let us survive till today. We at least contribute some value to their potential business and market. However as businesses they would also not be hesitant to wipe us away from existence if we ended up becoming a hindrance (from their perspective) to their overseas ventures.

Which all comes around to the money. Do they seriously think they would be able to make money in publishing those books in English? Enough to take the risk of investing in professional translations and printing? Our existence does several things at once: we provide publicity for the works, and we provide an indication as to how much interest there is for the works, but at the same time we (probably) reduce the demand somewhat, at least amongst the more fanatical readers, by providing something to read. Eliminating our site would increase the demand on the part of the diehards, but not immediately. It would take a few years for the effect of our site to fade fully. But then the publishers would be presented with a real gamble: just which books to publish? They wouldn't really know for sure anymore. Just because a book was popular in Japan doesn't necessarily mean that it will be popular with the English-speaking otaku, which have slightly differerent preferences.

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Doraneko » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:05 am

rpapo wrote:No question there. I was referring to the rights of somebody who has supposedly held them for years, but done nothing about them. That would be the situation with the Kadokawa Group, if indeed their USA branch has held the copyrights all this time. Technically, I suppose they have. Practically, they don't seem to have done much about it.


By common sense I would expect Kadokawa to have not yet designated the English rights of its gigantic light novel line-up to its US branch. Any action of doing so almost guarantees a lawsuit immediately following it, or at the very least, a bulk C&D against us as a greeting/warning. There is no point to arrange paperworks and incur legal costs to designate rights just for the purpose of diminishing their rights in the US through lack of action. Heads will roll in the legal department if there is any innocent mistake in this regard. :lol:

My point was that Kadokawa can transfer the English rights to its branch in a day or two, promptly send us a bulk C&D through its branch, and possibly start a lawsuit afterwards. They have full control and legal standing, so they can do this any time they wish.

Not that it matters. We, as a group, or more particularly The Big Boss, isn't going to try to fight them anyway. We're not in the business of competing against them, but simply providing the materials in English as long as they don't have plans of doing so themselves. For that matter, we're not "in business" at all!


Indeed. That is why the copyright holders have let us survived till today. We at least contributes some value to their potential business and market. However as businesses they will also not be hesitant to wipe us away from existence if we end up becoming a hindrance (from their perspective) to their overseas ventures.

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by rpapo » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:41 am

Doraneko wrote:
rpapo wrote:The only other angle I can think of, though, is the "posession is nine-tenths of the law" factor. Failure to defend your rights is nearly the same as ceding your rights, from the point of view of the court.


I am not too familiar with the state of affairs on the US side. But IMO if the English copyright holder, be it a local licensor or a copyright managing branch (as illustrated in my previous example), takes legal action such as sending C&Ds within a reasonable time after they have acquired the rights, the claim that they have not taken reasonable steps to defend their rights will not stand before the court.

No question there. I was referring to the rights of somebody who has supposedly held them for years, but done nothing about them. That would be the situation with the Kadokawa Group, if indeed their USA branch has held the copyrights all this time. Technically, I suppose they have. Practically, they don't seem to have done much about it.

Not that it matters. We, as a group, or more particularly The Big Boss, isn't going to try to fight them anyway. We're not in the business of competing against them, but simply providing the materials in English as long as they don't have plans of doing so themselves. For that matter, we're not "in business" at all!

Re: C&D letter from Hachette Book Group

Post by Doraneko » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:23 am

rpapo wrote:The only other angle I can think of, though, is the "posession is nine-tenths of the law" factor. Failure to defend your rights is nearly the same as ceding your rights, from the point of view of the court.


I am not too familiar with the state of affairs on the US side. But IMO if the English copyright holder, be it a local licensor or a copyright managing branch (as illustrated in my previous example), takes legal action such as sending C&Ds within a reasonable time after they have acquired the rights, the claim that they have not taken reasonable steps to defend their rights will not stand before the court.

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