Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

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Do you wish to see this novel translated?

"Yes"
34
97%
"Not Really (Please give a reason)"
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No votes
"No (Please give a reason)"
1
3%
 
Total votes: 35

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Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by Doraneko »

Japanese title: ニンギョウがニンギョウ
Romanisation: Ningyou ga Ningyou
English title (translation): A Doll is a Doll
Author: Ishin Nishio aka NisiOisin

Licensed in English? No. (Would be grateful if a staff member can verify it)
RAWS? Physical copy, in Japanese of course
Willing translator? Well a half-baked newbie will work on it as long as no one opposes.

Image

Nishio is famous for his unique writing style: fun, quirky, absurd, and sometimes challenging. Ningyou leans towards the absurd and challenging side. If you examine it line-by-line, you may find the long-winded descriptions and monologues marginally digestible. But if you move away from one of the trees and try to see the entire forest, all you can see are random patches of colours that may not be even close to green.

Ningyou is both the best and the worst of Nishio. Unlike mainstream works like Bakemonogatari where you still have some moe elements to balance out the bitterness, the whole story basically builds on his absurd writing that makes no coherent plot. In my opinion the closest novel to Ningyou is Kuuchuu no Buranco, but that one is still leagues behind Ningyou in terms of craziness.

I liken the reading experience to seeing a Picasso painting. At the first glance you can only see random patterns that make no sense at all. But if you spare some time to see it from different angles and think more about it, you will gradually be able to experience its impact and the feelings of the creator. It is when you start to be able to appreciate the beauty in such randomness, and when you start to see order in such chaos.

There is no way to talk about the plot of Ningyou without sounding like being on an acid trip, and you should know why by now. But just for the sake of completeness here is a brief summary of the first part.

To commemorate the death of his seventeenth little sister, the protagonist went to a cinema in the mountains to see a movie, despite of the difficulties and obstacles he had to face on the way. On his way he met random people like bank robbers and a bear girl. Somehow he also received a phone call from his dead sister apologizing to him. After reaching the cinema, he watched a movie called "Ningyou no Tamashii" - while being hanged upside-down from the ceiling during the whole movie. When he returned home he found that it had been turned into a cinema.

The story does not end here but I guess this is enough as an introduction. A better way to have an idea of the story is to read the first few pages: which I have translated and included below. Anyhow the novel is extremely selective in regard of its readers. Do not be discouraged and actively avoid other Nishio works even if you consider the below sample as utter rubbish. The man is regarded as a genius in writing for good reasons. The problem likely lies on my less-than-satisfactory level of English and Japanese.

This is all I have to say. I would appreciate if you could spare a minute or two to read the sample, vote on the poll and comment on whether you would like to see a translation. I would also be grateful if there is any editor who would kindly lend me a hand and follow this project, since my English is obviously far from perfect.
The reason why I am going to a cinema is that my little sister has passed away.

As I generally take a minimalist approach in regard to visual information, this is the first time I go to a cinema in five years. Even for the death of my little sister, the latest one happened five years ago. If I have to count the total number of deaths or cinema visits, it is four - including this time.

It is wrong to say that I only go to cinemas whenever my little sister passes away. It is the reverse - exactly because my little sister has passed away, I go to the cinema. Nonetheless, if she frequently dies then there is nothing I can do. No way can I face my friends who always shout rudely at me.

I have a total of twenty-three little sisters. The one who always dies is the seventeenth. Despite of her smart outlook, her skull is a bit thick and she seldom talks. Still, as siblings I have to explain the truth to her in a reasonable way. You may call me a hypocrite, but I simply cannot help it.

The first death of my seventeenth little sister was a suicide. The second death was an accident. The third one was also an accident. As for this time, it was a suicide again. If her next death is again suicide then there is a Full House.

But upon careful analysis, if my sister was forced to choose between suicide and accidental death, more than likely she would plainly die in illness. She is exactly that kind of girl. Even if she manages to get Two Pair she will never get Three Card. A girl who is short of one card - this is how she is called, and is exactly the reason behind all of this. Simply speaking, a cynical, twisted person.

I must go and watch a movie.
Last edited by Doraneko on Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:58 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by YoakeNoHikari »

I'm more than willing to see anything by Nishio translated, since I can't read it in its original language. ^^

That said, I've seen how challenging Nishio's works are, so I wish you luck, though I don't think you'll need it.
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by Mystes »

YoakeNoHikari wrote:I'm more than willing to see anything by Nishio translated, since I can't read it in its original language. ^^
? Is it that difficult in Japanese?
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by Doraneko »

YoakeNoHikari wrote:I'm more than willing to see anything by Nishio translated, since I can't read it in its original language. ^^

That said, I've seen how challenging Nishio's works are, so I wish you luck, though I don't think you'll need it.
Thanks. I certainly need more luck. :D

kira0802 wrote:
YoakeNoHikari wrote:I'm more than willing to see anything by Nishio translated, since I can't read it in its original language. ^^
? Is it that difficult in Japanese?
It is a disaster whenever Nishio starts to write entire pages of wordplays and puns: most of which can hardly be translated into English without sounding like an idiot.

Well, I should be glad that Ningyou doesn't have that many wordplays when compared to his signature works.
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by YoakeNoHikari »

Bakemonogatari is...monstrous.

Monstrous.
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by Teh_ping »

Let's just put it this way, you may ace a JLPT1 and you'll still end up looking silly if you try and translate this. The translator notes will be much longer than the story itself...

Seriously, that is why I really salute the Bakemonogatari translators.
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by Doraneko »

Teh_ping wrote:Let's just put it this way, you may ace a JLPT1 and you'll still end up looking silly if you try and translate this. The translator notes will be much longer than the story itself...

Seriously, that is why I really salute the Bakemonogatari translators.
No, I have never used translation notes in my translations and I never intend to use them in this also. Ideally a translator is supposed to be invisible to the readers (but of course highly visible in front of his clients. :lol: )

But yes the end product will look silly anyway. If the silliness and craziness are what the writer has intended, then it is the duty of the translator to preserve it.

Anyway, since you are obviously more experienced than me in regard to literature translation and are a respected authority here, if your conclusion is a "No," I will gladly accept it and move on. Sometimes I just want a break from my legal/financial translation work, but the more I look at it, the more it seems like I am trying to escape from reality. :?
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by Teh_ping »

Well, to me, I prefer to leave everything as a yes. We don't outright reject proposals for new projects, unless they are licensed. We just leave the proposals as 'outstanding', until some translator decides to work on the series. That's how it went with IS and Itsuten (though for Itsuten, Lare came up with his own proposal)

The only (but humongous) problem is--which brave soul is going to translate this. Right now, I assume that you (Doraneko) are going to do so? So far, we have 2 yes votes. Inform us once you get a part done, and we'll do up the teaser.
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by Doraneko »

Teh_ping wrote:The only (but humongous) problem is--which brave soul is going to translate this.
As mentioned in the first post I will be gladly doing the translation. Frankly I can't see anyone else being interested in working on this. It is Bakemonogatari without jokes, moeness, or even a plot. There are only long-winded monologues and descriptions that lead you to nowhere. The only plus is that no jokes means minimal wordplays/puns - and it is actually one of the reasons why I chose this instead of other Nishio works.

Right now, I assume that you (Doraneko) are going to do so? So far, we have 2 yes votes. Inform us once you get a part done, and we'll do up the teaser.
Thanks. The book is divided into four parts, with shared elements but each part can be enjoyed independently. The first part, Ningyou no Tamashii, covers around 25% of the book so it may take a bit of time. Or should I put up a teaser page and do the translation real-time on the wiki?
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by kuroi_shinigami »

Well, being an avid reader, I always give a series a try and decide whether I should follow it or not after reading it, and for Nishio's work, an English translated one would help.... a lot. I'm having tremendous difficulty just reading bake, translating will be impossible for me with my limited English.

The teaser looks interesting, it's the kind of writing style by Nishio that I like in Bake, but with my limited income, I'll skip buying the raw for now and decide about it after reading the 1st volume translation :D
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by Teh_ping »

Doraneko wrote:Thanks. The book is divided into four parts, with shared elements but each part can be enjoyed independently. The first part, Ningyou no Tamashii, covers around 25% of the book so it may take a bit of time. Or should I put up a teaser page and do the translation real-time on the wiki?
I think you should translate the first part first before you upload it. As a reader, I don't want to get like only 6k of text translated at a time that's updated. It's like waiting for an image to load on a Windows 95. Take your time with that though. The teaser page can wait, just tell me when you're done with the translation and I'll do it up.
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by Doraneko »

Teh_ping wrote:I think you should translate the first part first before you upload it. As a reader, I don't want to get like only 6k of text translated at a time that's updated. It's like waiting for an image to load on a Windows 95. Take your time with that though. The teaser page can wait, just tell me when you're done with the translation and I'll do it up.
Thanks and point taken.
kuroi_shinigami wrote:Well, being an avid reader, I always give a series a try and decide whether I should follow it or not after reading it, and for Nishio's work, an English translated one would help.... a lot. I'm having tremendous difficulty just reading bake, translating will be impossible for me with my limited English.
Talking about the difficulty of Nishio's works, it is kind of interesting. Many find the writing challenging, but actually at its core it is very straightforward, especially when compared to the works in the traditional Japanese belletristic literature (純文学) school.

Instead of the writing itself requiring a high threshold of literature comprehension capability while rewarding the readers with serene beauty, as in belletristic literature, Nishio focuses on making the vocabulary *looks* difficult by using lots of uncommon kanji writings for common words*. But for anyone with a reasonable kanji standard, such as high school graduates, it is not that high of a hurdle. Still, at a glance the text looks cool, professional and artsy, invoking a similar kind of satisfaction and reader experience of reading belletristic literature.

As for Ningyou, at least to me it seems like an experiment to produce a 21stC version of Alice in Wonderland or Soluble Fish catered to young adults in Japan. This may not be evident from the sample above, but if you have read the whole story likely you will notice how similar artistically between Soluble Fish and it.

Put it in another way, by reading a bit of Soluble Fish you would know what to expect from Ningyou.
Spoiler! :
From Soluble Fish

The ground beneath my feet is nothing but an enormous unfolded newspaper. Sometimes a photograph comes by; it is a nondescript curiosity, and from the flowers there unifomly rises the smell, the good smell, of printer's ink. I heard it said in my youth that the smell of hot bread is intolerable to sick people, but I repeat that the flowers smell of printer's ink. The trees themselves are only more or less interesting minor news items: a fire here, a derailment there. As for the animals, they have long since withdrawn from the commerce of men; with these latter, women now have only episodic relations, that are like shop windows early in the morning when the head window dresser goes out into the street to see the effect of the waves of ribbon, the slots, the wheedling winks of mannequins.

The majority of this newspaper I am looking through is devoted, properly speaking, to ship movements and places to vacation in the country, a column that occupies a fine place at the top of the first page. It says there, in particular, that tomorrow I shall go to Cyprus.

At the bottom of the fourth page the newspaper has an unusual fold that I can describe as follows: it looks as if it has been wrapped around a metallic object, judging by a rusty spot that might be a forest, and this metallic object might be a weapon of an unfamiliar shape, akin to the dawn and a large Empire bed. The writer signing the fashion column, near the aforementioned forest, speaks a most obscure language in which I nonetheless believe that I can make out that the negligee of the young bride will be ordered this season at the Partridge Company, a new department store that has just opened in the Glacière district. The author, who seems to be particularly interested in the trousseaus of young women, emphasizes that these latter are free to change their body linen for soul linen in the event of a divorce.

I go on to read a few advertisements, well-written ones, in which contradiction plays a lively role: it really served as a hand-blotter in this advertising agency. The light–which, moreover is very poor–that falls on the fattest letters, this very same light is celebrated by great poets with an abundance of detail that does not allow it to be judged other than by analogy with white hair, for example.

There is also a remarkable view of the sky, in the very same style as business letterheads showing a factory with all its chimneys smoking.

Politics, finally, which it seems to me has been given scant space, tends above all to govern good relations between men of different metal, the first rank of which is occupied by calcium men. In the minutes of the seances in the chamber, as simple as a chemistry report, they have been more than partial: thus the movements of wings have not been recorded.

It doesn't matter, since the steps that led me to this desolate shore will take me farther another time, even more desperately farther! I have only to close my eyes if I do not wish to bestow my attention, which is mechanical and therefore most unfavorable, on the Great Awakening of the...
*Just in the short sample I translated above there are already tonnes of simple words being masked by uncommon kanji, such as 矢張り for やはり, 迄 for まで and 聊 for いささ,
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by Darklor »

Or you could be mean and create a teaser pager for your already done treasertranslation in the first post :twisted:
Please don't mind my bad english since I'm german.

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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by Doraneko »

Darklor wrote:Or you could be mean and create a teaser pager for your already done treasertranslation in the first post :twisted:
I initially planned to create a teaser page first, and then seek to turn it into a project page after finish translating one or two chapters, as allowed by the project start-up guidelines. But Ping seems to be quite straight with the rule (?) that at least one whole chapter must be completed before a teaser page can be created. So which version of the rule, 1 or 2, applies here? :?:


1) Seek a confirmation from a staff member first for the suitability of the project. After that, create a teaser page once a snippet has been translated. It may be allowed to be upgraded to a project page if the rules laid down in the New Project Petition Guidelines and the All Project Start-up Guidelines have been properly followed.

2) Seek a confirmation from a staff member first for the suitability of the project. Then seek an approval for creating a teaser page after translating the first chapter. (Project page to be created after the translation of the whole book has been completed ?)


Well I will get the whole thing done anyway, so in the long term maybe there isn't too much of a difference. I am just a bit curious with the requirements here. :?


Teh_ping wrote:
Doraneko wrote:Thanks. The book is divided into four parts, with shared elements but each part can be enjoyed independently. The first part, Ningyou no Tamashii, covers around 25% of the book so it may take a bit of time. Or should I put up a teaser page and do the translation real-time on the wiki?
I think you should translate the first part first before you upload it. As a reader, I don't want to get like only 6k of text translated at a time that's updated. It's like waiting for an image to load on a Windows 95. Take your time with that though. The teaser page can wait, just tell me when you're done with the translation and I'll do it up.
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Re: [NisiOisin] Ningyou ga Ningyou (A Doll is a Doll)

Post by larethian »

no requirement for Teaser. where version 2 came from :?:
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