The Kyon Theory

Anaglyph · Post by **Anaglyph** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:41 am

It's fascinating how completely ambiguous this series is. The only thing that's certain is that Haruhi is attracted to Kyon. Everything else can be explained in multiple ways. For instance:

ShApEsHiFT3r wrote:
ShApEsHiFT3r wrote:It's all because Kyon is a God xD

Spoiler! :
Kyon was unhappy every single time the summer ended because he hadnt done his homework... Therefor making everything repeat again and again, and again ect ect...
more proofs

It could equally be that

Spoiler! :

McCritical · Post by **McCritical** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:41 am

Guest lol wrote:I think some of you may of read about this before on some forums. Anyways, the Kyon theory is the belief that Haruhi is infact not god, just some super post human. The true god of the Suzumiya Haruhi world is really Kyon.

I suspect the true gods in Haruhi's universe are Orihime and Hikoboshi, who managed to retroactively grant a little girl's wish (by sending Kyon back in time to help her chalk out the request on the school lawn) and allowing her to manipulate and warp the laws of physics and logic to make her world more interesting.

Koizumi is the only character who has theorized that Haruhi is a god, and as we've seen in the books, no one seems to know what the real explaination is for Haruhi's abilities to change things around her. Ryouko and Yuki disagree on how the Integrated Data Entity should procede, The two Mikuru's have differing theories on time (time as a series of chronon vs continuous time) and Koizumi never really commits himself to one opinion about Haruhi (Kyon considers most of what he says to be BS anyways).

Besides, everytime I've ever heard anyone discuss the Anthropic Principle (the alternative to "Suzumiya is god" theory Koizumi explains in the taxi), it's usually been preceded by several bong hits. Which beautifully supports my theory about why Koizumi is constantly smiling.

wedgejaeger · Post by **wedgejaeger** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:42 pm

XkaOnslaught wrote:anyone believe in the theory of BOTH kyon and haruhi are gods in their own rights?

I think initially Haruhi has the power, but as these last few chapters have opened, it seems like its transfering to Kyon

Spoiler! :

as for when this happened, it would have to be at least post festival, what with the movie they did and all.

thats my theory, partially

Smidge204 · Post by **Smidge204** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:36 pm

I think Haruhi is the only one with such powers at any given point in the story. As supporting evidence, I submit the following:

Spoiler! :

If there is any connection to Kyon, or if Kyon actually has any powers, I think they may only exist because Kyon and Haruhi are together - Kyon acts both as a catalyst and a buffer for Haruhi's power. It's much simpler for Kyon to actually be a perfectly normal person who happened to get caught up in everything (and is relating his experiences after-the-fact through his narrations in the novel) than it is to write a whole new layer of story and place him at the center.

Of course, only the author knows for sure... maybe!

Also, I think the apparent fading of Haruhi's is her becoming more content with "reality" as it is. As she comes to grips with what she's going to do with the rest of her life and begins to think beyond the next moment, her powers become dormant.
=Smidge=

wedgejaeger · Post by **wedgejaeger** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:49 pm

yeah, the pigeon thing was definitely something in defense of Haruhi having the power.

I just thought about something though, whenever Haruhi states things she's interested in, ie: aliens, espers, time travelers and sliders, though we never see the slider, maybe the slider is Kyon. I mean, if you count all the times he's been out of a normal timeline, or even different dimension, if not seemingly, I'd call him a slider. I'd certainly call myself a slider if I had been through even half the crap Kyon has.

Smidge204 · Post by **Smidge204** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:15 pm

Nah, the slider is either Tsuruya, Kimidori, or a new character yet to be introduced.

Both Tsuruya and Kimidori are unusual characters. Ref: "Snow Mountain Syndrome" and "Editor in Chief★Straight Ahead!" respectively.

Plus - and I have no real evidece to support this theory - I think it's a common pattern for non-normal female characters to have distinctively colored hair. All other female characters have hair colors identifiable as human except the ones that clearly aren't: Yuki (purple), Ryoko (Blue), possibly Tsuruya and Kimidori (both green).
=Smidge=

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:29 pm

Isn't kimidori one of those human interface thingies like Nagato?

Smidge204 · Post by **Smidge204** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:00 pm

It's possible, and that would make sense, but it hasn't been established yet in the translated text.

But it seems there is something special about her, and it also fits my hair theory.
=Smidge=

Guest lol · Post by **Guest lol** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:12 pm

Kimidori is a Human Interface android thing. In the anime, she comes and requests help from the SoS Dan. Yuki, knowing that it'll cause unwanted results when Haruhi gets too bored got her to come and arrange the missing president event. Also, when Yuki is staring into Kimidori, it's very much like the time when the Yuki's met and requested synchronization near Christmas.
They stare at each other and transmit data non verbally (Note how the data integration entities do not possess a physical form so they use non physical means of transferring information. Yuki and Kimidori are arranging an event to keep Haruhi occupied by having the student council president screw around with the SOS Dan.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:51 pm

Guest lol wrote:Yuki and Kimidori are arranging an event to keep Haruhi occupied by having the student council president screw around with the SOS Dan.

Spoilers, mate!

I never thought of it that way though. I was thinking along the lines of this:

Spoiler! :

renrutal · Post by **renrutal** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:52 pm

Smidge204 wrote:I think Haruhi is the only one with such powers at any given point in the story. As supporting evidence, I submit the following:

Spoiler! :
1) The event that started everything "3 years ago" had already happened before Kyon ever got involved. This is evident for two reasons:

1a) Since time travel beyond the world-change is impossible according to Mikuru, it would not have been possible for Kyon to travel to "3 years ago" if the world-change hadn't happened yet. Therefore, Haruhi must have changed space-time before the grafitti incident. No Kyon available.

1b) It has never been established how Kyon felt about Aliens/Time Travelers/Epsers "3 years ago" - only that at some point he still kinda wished for them to be real even knowing it was impossible. Without having a time frame for this, there is no evidence that Kyon is who changed the world.

1c) Yuki was already there "3 years ago" - also an indication that the world-change had already happened.

Therefore I propose that Kyon has never used any special powers, nor was he in a position to "create" Haruhi.

2) Yuki does not seem like the type to lie, and she says Haruhi is the source of the disturbances. Either she IS lying for whatever reason, she herself was manipulated to believe Haruhi is the source, or Kyon created Haruhi. None of those fit without taking a lot of creative liberty with the setting.

3) Nothing Kyon wants ever happens. Ever. Even if you take into account the ice pack in Snow Mountain Syndrome, it is much easier to believe that Yuki put it there for Kyon to find since she was already manipulating things, or that Haruhi put it there because she wanted Kyon to get one. On the other hand, LOTS of stuff Haruhi wants ends up happening. The pigeons at the shrine come to mind as a good example. (Of course, Kyon might be a masochist and secretly enjoys all the aggrivation...)
If there is any connection to Kyon, or if Kyon actually has any powers, I think they may only exist because Kyon and Haruhi are together - Kyon acts both as a catalyst and a buffer for Haruhi's power. It's much simpler for Kyon to actually be a perfectly normal person who happened to get caught up in everything (and is relating his experiences after-the-fact through his narrations in the novel) than it is to write a whole new layer of story and place him at the center.

Of course, only the author knows for sure... maybe!

Also, I think the apparent fading of Haruhi's is her becoming more content with "reality" as it is. As she comes to grips with what she's going to do with the rest of her life and begins to think beyond the next moment, her powers become dormant.
=Smidge=

These are hardly evidence:

1) We don't know where Kyon was 3 years ago. Current Kyon surely isn't involved, but we don't know anything about his past self.

2) Yeah, she doesn't seem. You defused your evidence at the same time.

3) Everything Haruhi wants happens, that's true, but she also tells everything special that she wants to Kyon.
Theory: Since he thinks she is a special person, her wishes are granted.

From Koizumi's own words, it'd be a disaster if an human with god powers realize he/she is a god. If Kyon ever had one of his abnormal wishes granted, that would be trouble. Then SOS-dan is formed to keep him thinking that all the weird things happening is Haruhi's fault, not his. They keep him occupied by following Haruhi's thoughts, not his own.

Post by **FNX** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:29 pm

renrutal wrote: From Koizumi's own words, it'd be a disaster if an human with god powers realize he/she is a god. If Kyon ever had one of his abnormal wishes granted, that would be trouble. Then SOS-dan is formed to keep him thinking that all the weird things happening is Haruhi's fault, not his. They keep him occupied by following Haruhi's thoughts, not his own.

Or maybe his (kyon) only wish is to have fun, to get away from the boring reality and Suzumiya is his excuse for that (though he doesnt know it). He just makes real everything she wish for his own sake

Dragoon · Post by **Dragoon** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:30 pm

We know that at some point in the past, Kyon wished for a world much like the one he has now: full of excitement; replete with extremely strange situations and odd characters; free from the realization he discovered, that the world isn't any more than it appears at first glance; and completed by a powerful "hero" figure that he can be the sidekick for.

Sounds like he got it.

We also have observed that Kyon is involved in every incident that ever occurs in the stories. Not only is he involved, but he is either the key to or the central observer of these situations. Everything that occurs, though, leads him to become a little more aware of his situation or become closer to the SOS Brigade members. He's also rarely in any serious danger, as he's saved by plot devices all the time, even when Haruhi isn't aware enough to will him to stay put. Both Yuki and Itsuki have noted his importance, even though they think he has no power of his own. Asahina-san from the future places enormous importance on keeping him both safe and active. Everything revolves around his participation.

We've seen that when situations begin to develop, they tend to coincide with his own internal monologue. Before everything comes undone, he has some idea of what will occur. He's had innumerable instances of deja vu or pre-cognizance. Even before Itsuki or Yuki let him in on events or notice something important, he's registered the importance of the minute events and coincidences that make up their dire circumstances, even if he doesn't understand the workings of them.

Even more importantly, Haruhi seems to be molding to his observations... she becomes less and less erratic, more in tune with the world around her, and greatly enamoured with him. Conversely, he becomes more interested in and appreciative of the strange events that occur in his world, less bored with life in general, and at least protective of Haruhi in general. Haruhi is supposed to be the one that has the power to change everything, but Kyon is the one that is having the most effect on the world at large, since he's the one changing Haruhi. In effect, they're balancing each other. Though Kyon whines and moans about the trouble he has to go through, even he admits that the past year was the best time of his life. He is getting to live almost exactly what he wished for in the undetermined past.

Next note, that Kyon is the de facto voice of authority in the club. When a situation arrives that has an unavoidable impact on the future of the club, such as the altered dimensions, the potential for a rampant Haruhiocalypse, or breaks in the time line, everyone turns to him for the final decision. Yuki leaves it up to him to choose a life without SOS Brigade or not; Itsuki places his trust in him to handle Haruhi's frustrations; Asahina-san from the future leaves the events of the past at his discretion. The rational voice in the wilderness is sometimes a cover for the real power within a storyline... the puppetmaster who works everything else.

As a final note, observe Itsuki's comment that a sentient god - an all-powerful being in full control of its powers - would spell the end for a stable world. Haruhi cannot be allowed to know what trouble she could bring, because if she wished it, it'd be reality at large. Notice, that this is the perfect excuse for Kyon to be the actual power:

In Haruhi, he has the perfect escape. He can have any wish granted that he truly wants in his heart, because she's more than willing to do anything for him that he decides on, even if she makes him pay for it later. He gets to let another person run wild with power and make the world interesting for him, while avoiding all responsibility other than picking up the pieces (which he enjoys doing, all things considered), and watching as things develop (another thing he secretly likes, since he gets to be witty). If he created the ascension of Haruhi to goddess, he could easily let her be his proxy while reaping the fruits of it. Since he forgets the role of being god, everything that happens is fresh for him.

He gets to play the emperor in plain clothes... walking amongst the population and observing neutrally. He does as he fancies, for the most part, caught up in the flow of events he can pretend to have no control over. All the while, he can display that sarcastic wit he's developed.

It sounds hilariously amusing, to me.

In summary: Kyon is the narrator. As we all know, the narrator is the real power of the story.

The narrator is the story. The narrator is God.

Therefore, Kyon is God.

* Word filter is cute.

Smidge204 · Post by **Smidge204** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:35 am

renrutal wrote: These are hardly evidence:

1) We don't know where Kyon was 3 years ago. Current Kyon surely isn't involved, but we don't know anything about his past self.

2) Yeah, she doesn't seem. You defused your evidence at the same time.

3) Everything Haruhi wants happens, that's true, but she also tells everything special that she wants to Kyon.
Theory: Since he thinks she is a special person, her wishes are granted.

From Koizumi's own words, it'd be a disaster if an human with god powers realize he/she is a god. If Kyon ever had one of his abnormal wishes granted, that would be trouble. Then SOS-dan is formed to keep him thinking that all the weird things happening is Haruhi's fault, not his. They keep him occupied by following Haruhi's thoughts, not his own.

1) You're right, we don't. However what we DO know from the story so far is that 3-year-ago Kyon had no involvement. There is nothing to even suggest it except his opening monologue, which discredits itself by openly stating that he truly does not believe Aliens et al can actually exist.

2) I don't see how. Yuki had plenty of opportunities to feed Kyon misleading information for whatever purpose but did not.

3) That would make Kyon responsible for the Sealed Space occurrences, which makes no sense since there is no established correlation between them. A simpler explanation would be that, since Kyon is the narrator telling a first-hand account of his experiences, we can't possibly know anything that Kyon doesn't know. In other words, Kyon is not omnipresent. It only makes sense that Kyon is involved in everything that happens because they are HIS experiences related from HIS point of view!

I think you WANT Kyon to be a more "important" character, so it seems like you are trying to rationalize this by making connections that don't need to be made. It's like people seeing the image of Jesus in their burnt toast... If you take what was written at face value, there is nothing to suggest Kyon has any powers.

Occam's razor: The simplest explanation - the one that introduces the fewest assumptions - is inherently the best.

My explanation is that Kyon just happened to get unlucky and dragged into this whole mess thanks to a time paradox ("Have I seen you somewhere before? A long time ago?") and things play out from there. If Haruhi had never uttered those words he'd still be living a normal life.

Your explanation is that we have at least three separate (and clearly conflicting) groups that are staging an elaborate conspiracy to redirect Kyon's attention onto Haruhi so he doesn't find out that he's actually the one with the power.

As I said, the only person that MIGHT know the truth is the author - but right now I think you're trying to catch a ghost with a fish net.

Now that I think about it, why would Ryoko try to kill Kyon if he was really the source of the power? That would be just a little disingenuous of the IDSE.
=Smidge=

Dragoon · Post by **Dragoon** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:14 am

Your explanation is that we have at least three separate (and clearly conflicting) groups that are staging an elaborate conspiracy to redirect Kyon's attention onto Haruhi so he doesn't find out that he's actually the one with the power.

That's not necessarily true. They could be fooled, as well.

If Haruhi is his proxy and scapegoat, then they would think she is the source of all the trouble, and not him. If he created her ascension, then this could be exactly what he wanted in the first place.

It's like people seeing the image of Jesus in their burnt toast...

There's no way to prove any of our theories except by the author himself coming out and telling us every little detail of the plot as he created it.

No burnt, iconic toast exists in these stories, because you really have to infer a lot by your own speculation. Itsuki's philosophical ramblings alone show that a lot of the underlying plot is open to interpretation.

ばか！バカ！　馬鹿ー月！

The Kyon Theory

Re: The Kyon Theory