Fansubbing and piracy

[ainsoph9]

Here is an article I found on animenewsnetwork. It discusses fansubbing and downloading anime. I thought it was excellent. Personally, I wish more people adhered to what he is talking about.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2008-03-11

[TheGiftedMonkey]

Very interesting read. Thanks for posting that.

[ainsoph9]

No problem. I like finding these things anyhow. You never know what you can learn from them.

[b0mb3r]

very good article

the guy did make a good point. why don't industries do fansubbing themselves when people's hobby takes them a few days?
also do you guys follow this man's ethics? buying the anime you like?

[TheGiftedMonkey]

Very much so, even though I'm on a tight budget. I've been buying all FMP merch I can get my hands on within my spending limit, plus SHnY boxset, all Love Hina material, and a few other boxsets and movies I deem worthy as well. I'm just very picky.

[Florin]

There's a common delusion about piracy (and it is definitely being spread on purpose) - that is, when people get licensed product for free (illegally), the distribution company suffers direct losses because of that. However, thing you should keep in mind is, you don't just automatically subtract product's cost from their account by not-paying for it! The usual response is, that if this product wasn't available for free, you'd have gone and bought it... but would you, really? For me, the answer is simple - if not for FTP and torrents, I'd probably stay away from anime altogether. So, it doesn't really make difference for anyone whether I download or don't - I'm not paying either way.

It's not that I'm saying this should be legalized or something - just that you can't solve the problem by simply appealing to buy licensed stuff.

[TheGiftedMonkey]

I use fansubbing as more of a extended preview of a series to see if it is worth my money to buy. They are godawful expensive, more than need be for content per disc. Only in cases of perfect marks on my chart will I buy anime.

[Noproblem]

i usually download all the anime i see, but then buy it later one, if i really like it, i usually buy it, well as much as my budget alows me too of course, allready spent too much money on anime/manga this year

my collection so far

[TheGiftedMonkey]

Nice, nice. Is Chrono Crusade really that good? I got to about Ep 7 and stopped watching it due to some events and never picked it back up. If I had more incentive I might actually do that.

And what about the Ai Yori Aoshi manga? I watched the anime and I wasn't really impressed. The manga any better?

I trust your judgment bro, we have very similar taste.

[ainsoph9]

There's a common delusion about piracy (and it is definitely being spread on purpose) - that is, when people get licensed product for free (illegally), the distribution company suffers direct losses because of that. However, thing you should keep in mind is, you don't just automatically subtract product's cost from their account by not-paying for it! The usual response is, that if this product wasn't available for free, you'd have gone and bought it... but would you, really? For me, the answer is simple - if not for FTP and torrents, I'd probably stay away from anime altogether. So, it doesn't really make difference for anyone whether I download or don't - I'm not paying either way.

It's not that I'm saying this should be legalized or something - just that you can't solve the problem by simply appealing to buy licensed stuff.

While the license is active and being used for distribution, the company does hold the rights to sell that product. If the product is available in your area or via the internet (take your pick) in a format that works for you, then I find that it does not hurt to buy it. If I like the product, even more so. I do find that buying anime is an expensive hobby (i.e., Sola for $50! for 3 episodes!), I do think that many of the anime companies are more than willing to give their customers a break. I signed up for right-stuf.com's newsletter, and I do not know how many sales they have during the course of a year that give ridiculous bargains on so much stuff! I feel like a kid in a candy store when they have deals like 10 DVDs for $50 or 25 DVDs for $100 from ADV. And yes, this was an actual annual sale. Frankly, I feel inclined to pay back all of the licensed anime that I have ever downloaded or watched via crunchyroll, YouTube, etc. I do this because I understand that my activities as a consumer and an otaku (yes, I will admit it) affect the way businesses work and behave. A couple of examples of this are the argument that "my vote does not matter" and "if one person does not patronize a business, it does not hurt." The first of these arguments means that if each and every person has this attitude, then nobody will vote and nobody will get the person or issue they wanted put into place, and we wonder why people complain that we have crappy leadership no matter where we look. Likewise, in the business world, if each and every person thinks that one person who does not buy products does not hurt the business, they will as a mass of people shut the business down. Even though not buying someone's product or service is not an active act of disapproval, it is like boycotting that, which means that the business cannot support itself from lack of funds. The argument that the industry uses is not so much a direct one, but it is quite indirect in a way such that you can potentially hurt the industry. Personally, I think that if someone is going to give me something that I like, I should respond responsibly and pay for it at one time or another. I do agree though with the subber in the interview that anime companies need to pick up the pace and make it known. If they cannot do that, then they will go the way of the dinosaur. However, if their costumers are still unwilling to pay when the company itself is bending over backwards to help that customer, I find that to be kind of like a slap in the face for trying to help someone. I will say that whether you buy anime or not is your choice, but not buying anime will eventually kill the anime industry even in Japan. Then, we will all just have ourselves to blame. Now, I am not entirely pro-industry or big business (I hate Microsoft with a passion even though I have Windows). I will say that the companies need to step it up a bit here. I think that the subber had an excellent business model. If they can do that, maybe our problem will be resolved. Who knows?

[Noproblem]

belive me, well... Ai yori aoshi is deffently worth reading if you ask me and yea, Chrono Crusade is a great series, although i was abit disapointed about the ending, as it's quite differnt than the manga..but i think you should see it and judge the ending yourself, might buy the manga soon just to get the other ending

ps. just ordered my super special edition of Neon genesis, thats another title of my page long list

[Smidge204]

It's really a no-brainer that fansubbnig ultimately hurts sales.

I think a more interesting aspect is the impact on Japanese sales, since (as was mentioned in the interview) it has become very mainstream and more visual to the everyman, rather than to the people who are actually involved with the community. If Americans download American TV shows I can't think of any reason why Japanese peopel wouldn't download Japanese TV shows (which of course they do) and increasing the visibility of these pirated works just makes it easier and more popular.


Regarding the solution proposed at the end: shortening the release times between Japan and North American release. I agree this would go a long way towards hindering fansubs, but of course it won't stop it. Time is the biggest reason fansubs exist, but the perception of quality is also an important factor.

For example, I downloaded SHnY and burned the episodes to DVD+R knowing full well that I would (and did) buy the commercial DVD special edition box set. Why? Because I think AFK Fansubs did a better job with the translating and presentation than the commercial machine did. If I want to see an episode again, I'll go for the fansub copy unless I explicitly need something that only the DVD has. So to really halt fansubbing, they need to compete on both time AND quality, which is tough to do when you're up against people who do it because they really, really want to rather than people who are working for a paycheck.

Edit: Thinking about it, there is another hurdle that makes the time gap difficult to eliminate. How popular is subtitling in the Americas? I think many companies believe that, in order to be successful in the North American market, it needs to be dubbed in English. I can't say if that's true or not, but I honestly can't see the eliminating time gap AND quality gap if they insist on dubbing. Styled subtitles are pretty much the only chance they have IMHO... essentially a legit fansub.
=Smidge=

[onizuka-gto]

well, im glad that the medium that we do is fundamentally different, in that, I can confidently say that the hobby that we enjoy (translating Japanese light novels) won't be hurting the industry any time soon.

1) Our translations are far form accurate.

2) We are painfully slow, and few if any groups that do, must use a lot of time and resource for it.

3) sometimes the feel of a real paper copy without worry of batteries and such is a blessing.

4) Novels on the whole are very inexpensive.

That's not to say that we shouldn't how to our moral obligation, i hope when the confirmed word of Z.N.T reaching the shelves, that we will have the moral strength to do what is right and pull off our online version.

it's a shame we can't block by country because that'll be a benefit, personally i don't like that those in other country must suffer when a medium is published in the USA and all the other English language countries are denied, even though the rights and chances of the novel coming to them is slim.

but that's a reality, hopefully those novels will show up on Amazon, at leased for me, importing books from the USA is quite cheap considering the 2:1 ratio of the us dollar to the superior pound sterling.



online ebooks are even better, they go for as low as $4 dollars so i get them for £2 which consider that to the paper copy of £6.99 is ridiculously cheap.

me <3 baen.com

[ainsoph9]

it's a shame we can't block by country because that'll be a benefit, personally i don't like that those in other country must suffer when a medium is published in the USA and all the other English language countries are denied, even though the rights and chances of the novel coming to them is slim.

I agree to this even though I live in the United States. I believe that it is more important to spread the word about anime, manga, and, in our case, light novels. However, I do not believe that it is so important as to say screw the entire system of licensing and the like. If we said that, I am sure that most of us would not be watching or reading much of what we watch and read, at least not in a more "palatable" form. I do not see the reason a potentially larger group of people have to suffer going without something just because of a license in another country. Those people are not even really under that country's laws for that matter. The legal system anywhere you go just is screwed up...

[AuraTwilight]

i usually download all the anime i see, but then buy it later one, if i really like it, i usually buy it, well as much as my budget alows me too of course, allready spent too much money on anime/manga this year

my collection so far

LIEK UR DEAN KOONTZ MANGA