ZnT season three.

[Beware the talking cat]

Colbert-sensei wouldn't die if you killed him.

[ShadowZeroHeart]

I prefer people dying as heroes than to fake death like an idiot.

Anyone played Metal Gear Solid 4? that ending was the dumbest i had ever seen in my entire life. I was cursing the producer of the game once i saw it!

The good part

Spoiler! :

Our famous Snake had a destiny of death. Other than his quick aging, the nanomachines in him evolved, and makes him a walking timebomb at this rate. So his final mission, as the hero of the times of war, having saved the world several times, is... to end his own life.

Right at the end of the game, after settling scores with Liquid, he goes to the graveyard, and pulls out a gun. He places it in his mouth. The screen fades, a gunshot sounded off.

The hidden(BAD!!) part

Spoiler! :

After the credits, you can see Snake sweating like an idiot, being a coward who does not dare fire a gun at the last minute. His ancestor Big Boss comes out, give a extra long lecture (like that of uni) and finally dies off, leaving Snake alone to leave for whatever time he has remaining. The time-bomb is deactivated, or rather, should not be activated since his lifespan is so short.

Dumb ending, I would rather people who should die be dead. I bet the reason Colbert-sensei revived is for Saito to have more modern like weapons... No one else seems interested in his world. He is needed, but I would rather he stay dead. Him reviving made anyone who found his dying scene touching look like an idiot. I had thought he was a good guy, until he pops up from his grave. All the students are like idiots too. Furthermore, I cant really tell why Tabitha casted a fake-death spell on him. It just doesnt make sense.

[TheGiftedMonkey]

Spoiler! :

Our famous Snake had a destiny of death. Other than his quick aging, the nanomachines in him evolved, and makes him a walking timebomb at this rate. So his final mission, as the hero of the times of war, having saved the world several times, is... to end his own life.

Right at the end of the game, after settling scores with Liquid, he goes to the graveyard, and pulls out a gun. He places it in his mouth. The screen fades, a gunshot sounded off.

The hidden(BAD!!) part

Spoiler! :

After the credits, you can see Snake sweating like an idiot, being a coward who does not dare fire a gun at the last minute. His ancestor Big Boss comes out, give a extra long lecture (like that of uni) and finally dies off, leaving Snake alone to leave for whatever time he has remaining. The time-bomb is deactivated, or rather, should not be activated since his lifespan is so short.

Spoiler! :

I guess you don't know this, but Kojima wanted Snake to die right there the heroic way. There were too many people who voiced their opinion in the company including higher-ups that wanted him to stay alive for possible sequels. So Kojima had to change the ending and he of course wasn't happy about it.

Now this could all just be hearsay. I honestly don't remember where I heard/read it.

[shichinanatsu]

fan-wise, of course 'dead heroes' should stay dead. though if you look at it from a more literal (as in literature) point of view, if an author wants to maximize the drama for a significant character, he/she shouldn't die within the story.

i remember feeling odd at the idea when my prof in creative writing (intro to writing fiction) taught the class this: when a character is to die, try and think if you can see death as 'rewarding', it leads to a better portrayal than if you see it as 'punishing'. the opposite applies when a character is to live. (hope that made sense..)

[ShadowZeroHeart]

If Snake died, he saves the world. How rewarding is that? If he lives, he destroys the very world he fought so hard to protect. To live on and kill everyone around him, dont you think that is the real punishment?

As for Colbert-sensei, if he died, the girl he saved will really be released from all her anger and sadness more or less. To see him alive once more makes her seem like an idiot then. But he does need to live, or else Saito would need to find some other "alternate world supporter". Well, that is one choice, but i guess it just didnt go that way.

[Beware the talking cat]

I'm disappointed in whoever decided to bring him back.
They should have simply followed the same route as always and introduced a new, female, Saito's world obsessied girl to join the harem instead.

[shichinanatsu]

i think you just answered your own question Shadow. saving the world at the expense of one's life is a high and mighty ideal; of course, that only applies if you have a big enough heart for that. the same also applies if, in exchange for your continued existence, you take the lives of everyone around you, important or otherwise.

as for colbert.. well, i think he was supposed to be brought back into the fold in the first place. it was probably something along the lines of "colbert's atonement would not be total if he just ended up saving agnes, even if she did kill him afterwards. atonement begins with the self, and if it be sincere, continuing to live while keeping at it is the only way to gain forgiveness; let those you sinned against witness your resolve, and they might reconsider."

a tad unrelated to this, but a line i heard from freedert of the anime DNAngel (somewhere near the end, ep22 if i remember correctly) neatly wraps up the thought.

translated it goes like this: ".. in order to protect someone, never choose death. in order to protect someone, no matter what happens, live.."
(it really isn't as pleasing to the ear like this. in nihon it was a 4-phrase poem, each with 10 syllables; the 1st and 3rd phrases are identical, while the 2nd and 4th phrases rhyme)

hope that makes sense

[ShadowZeroHeart]

i think you just answered your own question Shadow. saving the world at the expense of one's life is a high and mighty ideal; of course, that only applies if you have a big enough heart for that. the same also applies if, in exchange for your continued existence, you take the lives of everyone around you, important or otherwise.

as for colbert.. well, i think he was supposed to be brought back into the fold in the first place. it was probably something along the lines of "colbert's atonement would not be total if he just ended up saving agnes, even if she did kill him afterwards. atonement begins with the self, and if it be sincere, continuing to live while keeping at it is the only way to gain forgiveness; let those you sinned against witness your resolve, and they might reconsider."

a tad unrelated to this, but a line i heard from freedert of the anime DNAngel (somewhere near the end, ep22 if i remember correctly) neatly wraps up the thought.

translated it goes like this: ".. in order to protect someone, never choose death. in order to protect someone, no matter what happens, live.."
(it really isn't as pleasing to the ear like this. in nihon it was a 4-phrase poem, each with 10 syllables; the 1st and 3rd phrases are identical, while the 2nd and 4th phrases rhyme)

hope that makes sense

LOLz your reply sounds just like Kara no Kyoukai. Live on, and you become the enemy of the world. Death, if you are not confident that you can challenge the world.

Well, yes i answered it in some sense. No one can blame him if he chooses life or death. But not a faked death please. It is wrong to choose a heroic death and be reborn as a coward. It doesnt make sense. One's atonement will never be total, for a mistake cannot ever be undone, as what has happened has happened. I do not blame Colbert-sensei for his revival, only the author and Tabitha who casted a spell on him for a joke, perhaps to witness the tears of everyone in school. There really wasnt much reason to need that spell then.

A better way to say what you said would be perhaps
"Once dead, you can no longer protect what you want to protect.
If you truly hope to protect it, live on and protect it till the very end."

As Kazuma from Kaze no Stigma said,

”Ren, let me tell you the rules of this game. “The winner is the one who lives”. Simple?”

...........

"Don’t try to beautify death with the term self-sacrifice.
Death is the end of everything. Anything in the past, present and future will lose their meaning in an instant, that is death. There is no way to start over, the absolute end.”
Unable to lose, unable to sacrifice. He cannot accept using the future of a twelve year old in exchange for peace.
Kazuma does not want to lose anything important anymore.
“But as long as you are still alive, there will be a chance to turn the tables around, so, even if your teeth are broken off, you must swallow them back with your blood, no matter how pathetic, how shameful, never give up on surviving. Even if you must struggle to the very last moment, this is your battle, can you do it?”
Kazuma looked at Ren closely, and Ren looked back at Kazuma just the same way.
Never give up, never throw hope away, these are the determinations required to win, Ren learnt this from Kazuma.

[Muroph]

I'm disappointed in whoever decided to bring him back.
They should have simply followed the same route as always and introduced a new, female, Saito's world obsessied girl to join the harem instead.

Spoiler! :

he comes back in the novel as well, in the end of vol 9, if i remember correctly.

[shichinanatsu]

I'm disappointed in whoever decided to bring him back.
They should have simply followed the same route as always and introduced a new, female, Saito's world obsessied girl to join the harem instead.

i would think there's such a thing as the critical mass of a harem.. in most anime the number usually starts from 4-5. it can be more, though not too much of a difference. any more than that and there's no way you can manipulate the plot lines decently; you end up with a mediocre story to say the least. negima for example, imho

As Kazuma from Kaze no Stigma said,

”Ren, let me tell you the rules of this game. “The winner is the one who lives”. Simple?”

...........

"Don’t try to beautify death with the term self-sacrifice.
Death is the end of everything. Anything in the past, present and future will lose their meaning in an instant, that is death. There is no way to start over, the absolute end.”
Unable to lose, unable to sacrifice. He cannot accept using the future of a twelve year old in exchange for peace.
Kazuma does not want to lose anything important anymore.
“But as long as you are still alive, there will be a chance to turn the tables around, so, even if your teeth are broken off, you must swallow them back with your blood, no matter how pathetic, how shameful, never give up on surviving. Even if you must struggle to the very last moment, this is your battle, can you do it?”
Kazuma looked at Ren closely, and Ren looked back at Kazuma just the same way.
Never give up, never throw hope away, these are the determinations required to win, Ren learnt this from Kazuma.

on a rather unrelated note, something to this effect was what started me on a path to doubt, and eventually abandon my belief in 'afterlife' religions. sure, the Judeo-Christian tradition is a 'goodwill' belief system - i can at least see the point in that. what i don't understand is the need for a belief in an afterlife, and the effects of this life have on the next. *abruptly stops here before i derail the thread even further, don't wanna poke Oni-san needlessly*

[ShadowZeroHeart]

Well, I dont mind believing in such religions. Though it shall not affect how and what i do. After all, my next life is... my next, not me now ^^ so good luck to the next me if there is a next life. As for after life, lets worry about that when that comes! LOLz!

Maybe we should ask Colbert-sensei about afterlife, after all, he died at least once!!
(refuses to admit that he never really died)

And on a side note, i would rather take a fake story about how he used his flames like a phoenix, rising from the ashes, then some Tabitha untimely and unreasonable fake death spell. He suggested that idea once, though he never implemented it i believe.

[Beware the talking cat]

Well, I dont mind believing in such religions. Though it shall not affect how and what i do. After all, my next life is... my next, not me now ^^ so good luck to the next me if there is a next life. As for after life, lets worry about that when that comes! LOLz![\quote]

Foolish existentialist short-sightedness.

And on a side note, i would rather take a fake story about how he used his flames like a phoenix, rising from the ashes, then some Tabitha untimely and unreasonable fake death spell. He suggested that idea once, though he never implemented it i believe.

I don't really care how he came back--although, if he had been "rescued...by a fairy," we could have at least gotten to laugh at it.

[shichinanatsu]

Foolish existentialist short-sightedness.

I don't really care how he came back--although, if he had been "rescued...by a fairy," we could have at least gotten to laugh at it.

not really sure what you meant by us existentialists being short-sighted.. anyway, being revived and nursed by a fairy is an honor reserved solely for saito.. (the instance with guiche is still in question though)

Spoiler! :

i've been wondering for quite some time if julio is the familiar of that romalian pope.. can anyone enlighten me on this? if he is, i'm a tad interested about their master-familiar relationship (not as a yaoi- or shounen-ai fan, MIND YOU), since louise-saito and joseph-sophie are the only precedents

[Macko Darlack]

Spoiler! :

who's Sophie?? i thought Sheffield was his tsukaima... well, i don't mind spoilers drat... i'm really veeery backward... I finished V. 4...

[shichinanatsu]

macko, joseph's tsukaima is sophie sheffield. her familiar name escapes me though, what with its norse-like origins..