ばか！バカ！　馬鹿ー月！

I finally decided to vote but it's not much of a vote lol
0)C
the rest: no-vote.
No need to bind forum and wiki together. Reducing the steps for people to get started.

PS: I have not voted on the poll, since I'm viewing it locked and I'm lazy.

cloud wrote: 0). Should the Wiki Project Creator ensure there's a forum feedback thread?

1. Yes (Mandatory). If a forum feedback thread doesn't exist, they're required to create one. --- (12) Misogi, Chancs, Cloudii, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Darklor, Kira082, Victorrama, Bicube, Rydenius, Chaoticrun
2. No (Optional). However, recommend that they create one. --- (2) Vallor, Cthaeh
3. No. Don't give any mention to forum feedback threads in Project Startup Guidelines. --- (1) KuroiHikari

1). About the Future Project Suggestion Poll in these rules...

1. Should be kept in the startup rules and MANDATORY --- (2) Chancs, Kira082
2. Should be kept in the startup rules and OPTIONAL (current) --- (0)
3. Should be removed from the startup rules (FPS will still exist on forums, though). --- (11) Cloudii, Misogi, Victorrama, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, Darklor, Bicube, Cthaeh, Rydenius, Chaoticrun

2). Should there only be one feedback-related forum thread for a project, at a time? If yes, vote on the best way to maintain this.

1. Yes, lock old threads --- (1.5) Vallor, Rydenius/2
2. Yes, have only one thread and keep moving it (merge posts for any extra threads accidentally created)--- (11.5) Cloudii, Misogi, Chancs, Victorrama, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Kira082, Bicube, Cthaeh, Rydenius/2, Chaoticrun
3. No. Keep the feedback threads separate and keep them unlocked. --- (0)

3). If you said "B" to Question 2, what should we do about the poll questions?
4). What should be the minimum requirements for full project approval? You must give a concrete number of chapters/pages/percentage.

1. 1 volume OR 1 chapter +activity --- (1) Darklor
2. 1 volume ONLY --- (5) Victorrama, Chancs, Cthaeh, Kira082, Bicube
3. 1 volume (approximately), but lower in special circumstances --- (8) Misogi, Devenk83, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, SoulTranslator, Rydenius, Chaoticrun, Cloudii

5). If the ONE VOLUME requirement gets voted in, what should we do about current series with less than one volume on the sidebar?.

1. Keep them on as Full Projects --- (0)
2. Re-categorize all of them as Teasers (remove from sidebar) --- (3) Devenk83, Vallor, Cthaeh
3. Re-categorize only the inactive ones, but leave the active ones on the sidebar (give active TL a chance) ---- (7.5) Yoyoyo5678, Kira082, Bicube, Chancs, Cloudii, SoulTranslator, Rydenius/2, Victorrama
4. Re-categorize their category tags, but keep them on the sidebar --- (1.5) Darklor, Rydenius/2

^Updated. Thanks Misogi for the correction. Since I'm actually fine with how #4 is expressed right now, I'm switching my vote for #4 to C.

Currently, here's the global vote standings:
Yes --- 10
No --- 2
Wait --- 0 (Chancs said he vote for yes, but the thread was locked on him)

The members that voted "no" have 48 hours to name themselves and make their statement (by 2014/4/8 15:00 GMT). Otherwise, I'll be submitting this as it stands for approval.

----
PS: If this thread is locking on you, it's because global announcements like to "place" themselves into the Cognitive Dissonance board. If you want to "un-lock" it, go to the main page and view the announcement from a board that is not locked.

Suggestion: Add a small note at the top of the "Step 2: Creation of Project Overview Page" section that says you can ask if someone else can do these steps for you. That's a lot of different things for a new contributor to do (setting up the page and the forum thread), and it could be intimidating to someone who hasn't been around the wiki much.

Technically those steps will all still be required, I just think it will be less intimidating if a new member knows that others will help or do it for him/her.

Cthaeh wrote:Suggestion: Add a small note at the top of the "Step 2: Creation of Project Overview Page" section that says you can ask if someone else can do these steps for you. That's a lot of different things for a new contributor to do (setting up the page and the forum thread), and it could be intimidating to someone who hasn't been around the wiki much.

Technically those steps will all still be required, I just think it will be less intimidating if a new member knows that others will help or do it for him/her.

Added and done.

Currently, here's the global vote standings:
Yes --- 10
No --- 2
Wait --- 0 (Chancs said he vote for yes, but the thread was locked on him)

The members that voted "no" have 48 hours to name themselves and make their statement (by 2014/4/8 15:00 GMT). Otherwise, I'll be submitting this as it stands for approval.

EDIT: Thank you Simon for updating the main page again! :3

Added a Yes.

Cloud great idea on the main page update! (And thanks Simon for making it live! ) First time I came to the site I was rather confused on how to get to any of the different translated novel series, from the main page anyway. So that should help a lot particularly with first time visitors who have trouble figuring what the site is about and how to get to the various projects without resorting to the sidebar or search. And by featuring the teaser projects that should alleviate the concerns over demotion to teaser category or the increased one volume requirement that occurs as a result of the new guidelines. Also nice job on the Alt Language integration for the New Project Startup Guidelines, looks good.

On the main page, Also I thought I noticed that some Pending Projects end up in limbo, being no longer listed under the Teaser Projects section (or the Full Project section) probably because their {{Teaser|English}} tag was removed -- but I don't see any cases of that currently (for English anyway). I wonder if it would be good to remind Project Managers not to remove the {{Teaser|English}} (or other teaser language) tag until the project is approved to full status. (Is removing the tag something that should be done by an Admin when approving the project and adding the [[Category:Light novel (English)]] tag?) This thread seems relevant: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewt ... =15&t=9370

Ah, I just remembered that originally there were rules about the linking requirements for alternate language projects (adding links to and from their English counterpart pages). Should the New Project Startup Guidelines wiki add that info? This also seems like a great place to recommend/require usage of the ATP template since people clicking might be going from a full project (English) to a teaser alt language project.

might even want to put a short description (in small text) of each category (Full Projects, Teaser Projects, Recent Updates) under it's link. For example: "Projects with at least one volume translated and/or established projects with active translators." "New projects that have less than one volume translated and may be in need of translators." "Site-wide listing of project updates posted by editors and translators."

This is just laziness on my part...... but personally I think it's more stylistic to leave the Main Page simple without too many words in that area... ^^;; Also, I don't have edit privileges so.................. xD

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind putting a description on the Category Pages (like the current Teaser Category) explaining what each category is. But that would mostly help only after you click on the link.

(Hmm... should the Recent Updates link to the external Facebook page or to: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index ... entChanges ?)
Just throwing some ideas out, so the wording probably needs some work.

I don't really want to link it to Special Recent Changes because most readers aren't interested in those minor changes and misc changes. They're interested the last time a chapter has been updated. XD

I was picking between linking the twitter or facebook, and went with FaceBook because it doesn't have a link on the Wiki yet, and it has room for liking and commenting, which may or may not be valuable. I can understand the dislike of linking to external sites, but for the time being I'm too lazy to track updates in too places at once.

Also I thought I noticed that some Pending Projects end up in limbo, being no longer listed under the Teaser Projects section (or the Full Project section) probably because their {{Teaser|English}} tag was removed -- but I don't see any cases of that currently (for English anyway). I wonder if it would be good to remind Project Managers not to remove the {{Teaser|English}} (or other teaser language) tag until the project is approved to full status. (Is removing the tag something that should be done by an Admin when approving the project and adding the [[Category:Light novel (English)]] tag?) This thread seems relevant: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewt ... =15&t=9370

Pending Projects will be cleaned up after these rules get approved. Just have to ask supervisors (and also probably Simon to run a bot to replace Teaser category with Teaser template) and we'll work things out together. Lot's of work you see? XD

I'll be shutting down the thread that you linked, by the way. I'll be trying to consolidate everything to that Administration Contact Page.

Ah, I just remembered that originally there were rules about the linking requirements for alternate language projects (adding links to and from their English counterpart pages). Should the New Project Startup Guidelines wiki add that info? This also seems like a great place to recommend/require usage of the ATP template since people clicking might be going from a full project (English) to a teaser alt language project.

Linking is mentioned on the Project Overview Guidelines which the startup guidelines say you need to fulfill satisfactorily. As such... hmmm... I wonder which is a better place to put it?

--------


Currently, here's the global vote standings:
Yes --- 11
No --- 2
Wait --- 0 (Chancs said he vote for yes, but the thread was locked on him)

The members that voted "no" have 48 hours to name themselves and make their statement (by 2014/4/8 15:00 GMT). Otherwise, I'll be submitting this as it stands for approval.

EDIT: Thank you Simon for updating the main page again! :3

Off-topic front page discussion

cloud wrote:I'll be shutting down the thread that you linked, by the way. I'll be trying to consolidate everything to that Administration Contact Page.

Yeah, no sense having to update two places to keep everything current. Was there a decision on whether full project approval upon reaching 1 volume was "automatic" (changes to the category tags are done by the Project Manager at his own discretion) or "Administrative" (to be done by Supervisors/Admin)? The guidelines as currently written suggest the latter (more work for Supervisors/admin, but done by people who know what they are doing and can check to make sure everything meets standards).

cloud wrote:Linking is mentioned on the Project Overview Guidelines which the startup guidelines say you need to fulfill satisfactorily. As such... hmmm... I wonder which is a better place to put it?

Ah, I think that makes a lot of sense, and would help to keep the technical details from cluttering the New Project Startup Guidelines wiki. But it will need to be detailed a bit more in the Project Overview Guidelines, and maybe an Alt Language project linking example could be included in the sample Project Overview template as well since, if I recall correctly, the conventions were a bit technical.

Hell, I missed a lot of things...

Well, I'm voting for :
0) A
1) C
2) C (Actually I find that having more threads to discuss certain things may be nice, so we don't have too much topics discussed at a time on the same thread)
3) Just don't merge them, lock one, link it in the first post of the other thread for reference and go on like that.
4) A
5) C

But didn't we speak about removing everything from the sidebar anyway ???

Let me trow in some input.

I always thought that having both FPS and TF is kind of... redundant? Please note, I'm not talking about threads, but I'm talking about forums themselves. We don't need them both since readers' wishes don't have much significance on the TL process here. Which is why I propose to get rid of FPS altogether, merge project threads that have some work done on them with those in TF and move everything else to Manga/LN forums.

Now then, why? Because it's easier for us to browse through one thread only. The need to move a thread arises only in case the project is approved as a Full Project. Manga/TL forums might get busier because we don't really deny lurkers and readers the right to propose an interesting project. However, the difference will be that there will be some material (Teaser, bits of chapters TL'd, translators' input, etc.) to discuss instead of depending on spoilers and summaries.

With this said, I'll vote.

0) A.
1) D (no FPS forums altogether, so no FPS thread.)
2) B.
4) C. (I don't like one volume per project rule, but since it doesn't mean much for Alternative Laguage Projects...).
5) C...

Oh wait. A correction about fifth question. What's the course of action on Hosted Projects? We've got a dozen of those, I think. I don't think that they fit in Active Projects unless the translations are put on wiki, too.

One could say the FPS section is for those translators that react to readers wishes or to see if there is any interest in a new project...

Also I think its a relativ central place to talk about the series, since the section for the different media discussions arent that much visited...

cloud wrote: 0). Should the Wiki Project Creator ensure there's a forum feedback thread?

1. Yes (Mandatory). If a forum feedback thread doesn't exist, they're required to create one. --- (14) Misogi, Chancs, Cloudii, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Darklor, Kira082, Victorrama, Bicube, Rydenius, Chaoticrun, Rock96, Lery
2. No (Optional). However, recommend that they create one. --- (2) Vallor, Cthaeh
3. No. Don't give any mention to forum feedback threads in Project Startup Guidelines. --- (1) KuroiHikari

1). About the Future Project Suggestion Poll in these rules...

1. Should be kept in the startup rules and MANDATORY --- (2) Chancs, Kira082
2. Should be kept in the startup rules and OPTIONAL (current) --- (0)
3. Should be removed from the startup rules (FPS will still exist on forums, though). --- (12) Cloudii, Misogi, Victorrama, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, Darklor, Bicube, Cthaeh, Rydenius, Chaoticrun, Lery
4. Remove FPS forum in entirety --- (1) Rock96

2). Should there only be one feedback-related forum thread for a project, at a time? If yes, vote on the best way to maintain this.

1. Yes, lock old threads --- (1.5) Vallor, Rydenius/2
2. Yes, have only one thread and keep moving it (merge posts for any extra threads accidentally created)--- (12.5) Cloudii, Misogi, Chancs, Victorrama, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Kira082, Bicube, Cthaeh, Rydenius/2, Chaoticrun, Rock96
3. No. Keep the feedback threads separate and keep them unlocked. --- (1) Lery

3). If you said "B" to Question 2, what should we do about the poll questions?
4). What should be the minimum requirements for full project approval? You must give a concrete number of chapters/pages/percentage.

1. 1 volume OR 1 chapter +activity --- (2) Darklor, Lery
2. 1 volume ONLY --- (5) Victorrama, Chancs, Cthaeh, Kira082, Bicube
3. 1 volume (approximately), but lower in special circumstances --- (9) Misogi, Devenk83, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, SoulTranslator, Rydenius, Chaoticrun, Cloudii, Rock96

5). If the ONE VOLUME requirement gets voted in, what should we do about current series with less than one volume on the sidebar?.

1. Keep them on as Full Projects --- (0)
2. Re-categorize all of them as Teasers (remove from sidebar) --- (3) Devenk83, Vallor, Cthaeh
3. Re-categorize only the inactive ones, but leave the active ones on the sidebar (give active TL a chance) ---- (9.5) Yoyoyo5678, Kira082, Bicube, Chancs, Cloudii, SoulTranslator, Rydenius/2, Victorrama, Rock96, Lery
4. Re-categorize their category tags, but keep them on the sidebar --- (1.5) Darklor, Rydenius/2

^Updated.

@Rock96: I disagree with removing FPS on the forum. On the forum, FPS an opportunity for readers to suggest a new translation project that doesn't exist. The thread is made when there aren't any translators at all.
About Hosted Projects... there's a future rule page that I haven't written yet with regards to that. So we'll get to that eventually. XD

@Lery: Yes, sidebar is supposed to be removed. IDK when DarkoNeko actually plans to do it. But if this passes before DarkoNeko removes the sidebar, we'll clean up the sidebar even if it's temporary. ;D

@Rydenius: The way this is written, it's supposed to be Administrative. I think all the Supervisors agree that there should be some kind of regulation somewhere. xD Even if we're all lazy. Hopefully, when the sidebar goes, we won't have to rely on DarkoNeko/Oni anymore, and the regular supervisors can just take care of everything.

--------


Currently, here's the global vote standings:
Yes --- 14
No --- 2
Wait --- 0 (Chancs said he vote for yes, but the thread was locked on him)

The members that voted "no" have 24 hours to name themselves and make their statement (by 2014/4/8 15:00 GMT). Otherwise, I'll be submitting this as it stands for approval.

Also, there's a pretty obvious majority in every topic, so... it looks like this rule page is getting submitted as-is.

Why don't we leave the side bar as it is since this tool is very useful for us and for newcomers- and very easy to use ( of course in addition to the other changes in the main page ect...)
Or at least we just make it with a toggle on natural mode -off ( toggle like in Date A Live).
What do you think?

yoyoyo5678 wrote:Why don't we leave the side bar as it is since this tool is very useful for us and for newcomers- and very easy to use ( of course in addition to the other changes in the main page ect...)
Or at least we just make it with a toggle on natural mode -off ( toggle like in Date A Live).
What do you think?

Talk to DarkoNeko. That's 100% his initiative. xD One day he simply showed up and said the LN list on the sidebar was going away. That's all. I have no part in it.

-----

Currently, here's the global vote standings:
Yes --- 14
No --- 2
Wait --- 0 (Chancs said he vote for yes, but the thread was locked on him)

The members that voted "no" have 12 hours to name themselves and make their statement (by 2014/4/8 15:00 GMT). Otherwise, I'll be submitting this as it stands for approval.

Also, there's a pretty obvious majority in every topic, so... it looks like this rule page is getting submitted as-is.

cloud wrote:@Rock96: I disagree with removing FPS on the forum. On the forum, FPS an opportunity for readers to suggest a new translation project that doesn't exist. The thread is made when there aren't any translators at all.
About Hosted Projects... there's a future rule page that I haven't written yet with regards to that. So we'll get to that eventually. XD

These threads create false hope that the results of the polls would decide something. This in itself I consider quite a flaw in the system. Besides, when both TF and FPS exist, it creates unnecessary burden on mods. With our two-level promotion (TFT->AB) and three-level promotion systems (FPS->TFT->AB)... I'd rather have some life bristling in Manga/LN forums instead of having two identical sub-forums.
OK, I see.