Japanese in 18 Months? No way!!!

[Poke2201]

In my opinion, ANYTHING that says learn _____ easy!!!!(For languages) is total bull crap. The reason I actually trust the AJAT type is because it forces you to emulate the language you trust(maybe biased but oh well) and uses all the tools that people learn with( well most):

Auditory Learners: Music
Visual: Japanese Shows(Anime, Soaps, w/e)
Kinestethic/actions: Talking, writing kanji/kana

Those movies and tapes and crap only work if you listen to it for an extended period of time, and if you take psychology you also realize the human brain can learn a lot, but it needs to be repeated in spaced intervals for it to set in. Most software will not do that, exception of Rosetta Stone, but thats horribly expensive. I also need to mention that unless those movies, tapes, etc. have the ENTIRE language, every nuance, sound, word, and god knows what pertaining to it, all you have done was learn a set list of words and nothing more. When you speak in that language you will only know those words, and it wont feel natural at all.

Sorry for the rant, i just despise tapes and movies that tout learning in a really quick way.

[b0mb3r]

damn it. Just reading this reminds me I'm struggling with Italian right now. i know is practice and repetition but sure of need a practical way of remembering it.

[Poke2201]

Do sentences. I haven't reached that point because my computers crash right before I can move on, but sentences usually get you more acclimated with the language.

[Mystes]

...why does everyone's computer crashes?

[Poke2201]

Mine crashed because of dust accumulation and hard drive errors out of the wazoo.

2nd one crashed due to faulty wiring/mobo/HDD/Display.

[Mystes]

Mine crashed because of dust accumulation and hard drive errors out of the wazoo.

2nd one crashed due to faulty wiring/mobo/HDD/Display.

For the first, I understand what hapenned bit not what did you do to become like that.
For the second, I don't understand what hapenned and neither what did you do to become like that.

[Poke2201]

2nd one was due to misuse.

I was playing with an earthquake machine, and recording data on me laptop WHILE IT WAS ON THE SAME TABLE .

But in all fairness to myself, the hard drive BSODed on me the hour after I opened it.

[SkyFlames07]

Can't believe that I'm actually giving a try to this............. But I gotta say that it is easier than I though, CHRIST SAKE I'm not saying that is easy, but it isn't so heavy to study if you actually want to. Took 1 month to learn the Hirgana alphabet, as I started around Febreaury, and following a 10-15 kanji memorization per day, writting it on a note book over and over and over again....... I guess that I'm around the number 100 now, which is like a 20th part of the long I gotta study, and I'm already feeling like puking But well, it's a sacrifice to learn a language that not everyone got the privilege of getting at.
Since I'm skipping katakana for now as it is just for foreign words, should I ask, will it come back on me and kick my ass as a punishment for not learning kana alpahabet first? Or I can freely continue with the kanji nightmare?

[kuroi_shinigami]

considering katakana just need short study to master, I suggest you learn it first since they do use it quite often, especially in modern literature(manga and light novel included).

[larethian]

second kuroi. katakana is essential.

[SkyFlames07]

Alright. Thanks for answering. I guess I'll take a break from kanji to full dedicated to katakana.

[Poke2201]

Well, lets leave this as, Learn the japanese alphabet through SRS.

Once one does that, then use SRS to "learn" sentences.

When I mean "learn", I mean, each word of the sentence can mean another word, and you memorize each word in that sentence. By the time you reach 10k sentences you've basically learned the language, and if not, you have a giant dictionary.

Im at about 1500 kanji atm, and thats adding 6 months for crashed computers. 2 months of studying really XD.
I should learn Kana/Katakana soon...

[SkyFlames07]

1500? Damn, I'm already getting sick of it at 100. It's like if my mind tells me to quit but my hand keeps writting and writting
Hiragana is easy, but I just can read it as the number of words/sentences I can understand is very low.

Btw, what is a SRS?

[Poke2201]

Spaced Repetition System.

Normal study methods that most students do are cramming; which is really inefficient, and then theres normal studying which is just reading your notes everyday for a set amount of time. Spaced Repetition Systems streamline the process of studying, and also makes it quicker too. I'm going to use kanji as an example.

Alright SRS is a lot like flash cards, but its computerized and doesnt forget. So in the way I do it, I have a mnemonic for what the kanji means and looks like, and the answer is the kanji itself. Theres 3 classifications of cards in an SRS. Wrong, Young/Mature, and New.

Wrong: These cards are when you just can't remember the name or w/e it is thats the answer. It resets the algorithm which will be explained in simple terms later

Young/Mature: These cards are things you should be able to remember, but some times you don't and then it becomes a wrong card. Thats fine.

New: Obviously these cards are at the earliest part of the algorithm, and they start off with small intervals.


Algorithm Explaination: Now observing the Algorithm in Anki(a free SRS for PC/25 bucks for iPhones) it is a logarithmic program. But anyway, lets start from a new card. At a new card obviously, you don't know it yet so its technically not calculated yet. When you finally see it, a choice is made depending on how well you remembered. At a new card its usually going from worst to best: 8 Hours, 1 day, 3 days, 5 days. You are your judge as to how well you would have remembered it. But as a milestone, if you could remember it in a snap, then thats the best outcome at 5 days. If you just barely remember it, then its 1 day or 8 hours. As you keep getting these cards correct, the times increase until the ends of time. Right now Im running on 3.5 years until the next time I see this card. Basically, I remember this card quite easily.

Theory: The brain remembers in short spurts, and through spaced reviews. As one sees it more often, then the brain starts to push this card from the short term memory from seeing it into the brains long term memory. However it needs to be in a short spurt, so 5 mins a "day" (8 hours is long enough for a "day", but 24 hours is good too) is considered the best amount of time.

Any questions?

[SkyFlames07]

I understand the method, it's just repeat till you can't forget it. It's kinda the method I was using till know, to just bring a small notebook with me and everytime I feel like forgetting the kanji look at it, till I can't forget it...
But this program seems to be much easier and practic, as I'm willing to give it a try, should I ask how to program it? And if you can give me the name of your current one, so if I get any doubts I can ask without having to describe the crap program that I'm surelly gonna get on the rush.