Sword Art Online

[Tap]

eh, my main meat in the argument is that it is fanfiction. I really don't care how good or bad the fiction is, I'm mainly against fanwork, even if by the author himself, is put together with the actual published works, the moral guardian is just a personal opinion commenting that I can't introduce this to some people because of that, though I really want to introduce this story to them.

Yes, it was separated from the section with the 18- chapters.

However, 16.5 was listed under "Short Stories (18+)", rather than lumped with the rest in "Received SS Vault (18+)", on REVERSE.
With a comment going, "SAO main story's chapter 16, the part where Kirito 'held back on the details'" below its link.
So it was actually separated from the 18+ stories submitted by fans as well.

Eroticism doesn't make a work fanfiction.
It's essentially on the same level as the MEs, a side short story that wasn't published by a major publisher.

@Teh
I won't deny it's more commented on more than other specific chapters, but it certainly is less famous than the setting of the novel, as you mentioned.
And yea, that mainly due to the difference between our stances on that subject.

At most, I would just recommend making it more obvious that it's meant for a mature audience only, and that it was only released on his webpage in the past, not volume 1.
Maybe something like that collapsible division that was on that page last time, where the reader had to click on something before actually showing the text.

[larethian]

Tap and others who still support this as cannon, I have 2 questions:
1. If Kawahara was originally writing SAO to be published by Dengeki, do you think he will write that chapter?
2. Say if this is not SAO and some other story, and the writer submits his scripts to his editor, and after that, the editor says, "we have do without part A / chapter B", and they never made it in the official releases, will you consider those omitted portions to be cannon?

And are we translating a Light Novel published by Dengeki, or a Web Novel freely published by the author on the web? If it's the later, then I feel we should use his original scripts in its entirety. If it's the former, then we should use what's published. I find an explicit sex chapter in a LN devalues it (implicit is fine). And LNs are also targeted towards teenagers, so this content should not be there if we are translating it from the LN stand, otherwise, this should be termed a translated web novel and the original scripts should be used. My 2 cents.

Also someone (forgot who, and I'm not going to check) mentioned the point on the need for this chapter to establish the VR marriage relationship of Kiri-Asu is kind of mind-boggling to me... Say for argument's sake (not that I'm agreeing, but just for argument's sake), that one can say that they need to consummate after their virtual marriage to make this more 'real', 'believable', or in case they die virgins or whatever, it doesn't mean that it can't be implied or suggested. Saying that there's a need to write the entire scene out with details to establish the consummation sounds more like one's 'preference' to me.

[Vaelis]

After reading the different messages, I decided to delete it for now.

[Polarpwnage]

For argument's sake, I'm not trying to make a stance here but merely curious, there's a lot of discussion here against posting of Chapter 16.5 of Sword Art Online on baka-tsuki because it's not appropriate, children who comes to this site might be tainted and stuff. But since when was this site created to devote its resources to translate light novels and other material exclusively appropriate for young children? I was under the impression that this site was mainly for translating light novels and other works for the benefit of non native readers so they dont miss out on good novels. And if we're going to argue that chapter 16.5 be taken down or censored purely because its inappropriate why hasn't many of the other translated Light Novels on the site be taken down as well? I've recently started reading Highschool DxD because of the anime and I noticed its borderline, if not passed in terms of offensive reading material. Personally it feels like reading some eroge script. If someone under the age of 18 comes onto this site they're going to notice the other light novels that they're not supposed to be reading. My point is, if you're going to censor one thing, why not do it for everything on this site, and at that point, translators are going to be limited in what they wish to translate.

[Shiroux]

I just don't see the point of this argument at all. If 16.5 is inappropriate and this site won't let 18+ script stay, just stats that. It's simple and easy to understand. But all I see is this damage controlling, taint, fanwork and stuff. Mind you, a fanwork is a work that done by fan. Same as Tap, I doubt that 16.5 is more well known than the novel itself. If it's among a certain group of people, then it might be but overall....no. And please, if your kid come to you one day and tell you that he/she got a boy/girlfriend and you didn't see it coming...then it's your fail as a parent, how's that relate to this anyway.

Human will get tainted by themselves without you need to taint them.

Once again, if it's inappropriate then say so, don't need to be so....descriptive of something unrelated.

[Misogi]

I knew this would happen...

As larethian said, LN are mainly aimed at teenagers (including guys with hormonal pulsions or girls starving for BL-novels). I don't know a lot of people below 15 who are reading LN. If we start a debate about borderline projects, which are unsuited for children who would unlikely read them, it'll be endless, and we have other things to do.

The best thing we can do now is to put this chapter in a different website. That way, those who want to read it will read it there. But it won't be available in BT anymore, to avoid such issues.

Personally, I won't edit the chapter in my project. I can't and I don't want to work on it.

Then, please stop speaking about 18+ SAO stories. Enough of them... s** isn't everything in life.

[d34thw1ng]

s** isn't everything in life.

but it is the origin of life , and the beginning or ending of new /better stuff. nevertheless if it is for the sake of the site well yea remove it instead that the page get reported / censored by some stupid parents :S

pd:if u will use another page for uploading anykind of work related to sao pls let us know :S

[Ushwood]

Hoho, what a mess from my single post .

My 2 cents about 16.5: my position is similar to Tap's. If it was written by the author then it's no more and no less canon than Material editions. So if the argument is "we translate a Light Novel published by Dengeki", like what Larethian said, then what are all other side-stories doing here?

So my position is:
a) if this site as a whole is all-ages, just pace somewhere on the main page "no Mature content allowed"; otherwise it's allowed (with proper warnings of course);
b) everything Kawahara-san wrote in "SAO universe" has the right to be placed here - if it doesn't contradict what I wrote in a).

[Final]

I was going to do a huge rant on how pointless this damage control is, but I'm just going to say that all non-3rd world countries that don't sensor s** as strongly as the US has a lot less human controllable action problems, homicide/r*** which is to say that what in the world are you trying to damage control?
If damage control is your goal then violence/murder/cruelty are your main targets, which by all means is the US allowed contents.

[KuroiHikari]

Is the "16.5" still published on his website?

[Pryun]

I prefer the: we translate published stuff. you know, things that are trying to reach out to the masses, not hidden in some dodgy corner of a webpage.

ME was published, even though as a doujin. Aria was published. I believe even the Failure side SS was published, though I can't check that. The current chapter in question has never. been. published. ever.

Note that I also lobbied alongside several others for the removal of the web translation because it was the web version and not the published version. Also, I only continued rondo because the first few chapters are in ME, and I heard that it might be coming out in progressive(I mean, it's off the author's website already, probably to prepare for publication.). I'm also against cradle of the moon being there what with it being both unpublished and with no translator and stuff, but as vaelis decided to keep it, so I won't say much there.

@HSDXD: who's going to introduce that to a kid? or has any intention of doing so? I never even read past the first volume.

@ age limit: Can you honestly see someone seeing the sign and actually leaving it alone? especially if they are, say, between 11 and 18? The Jp might abide those regulations, but rebellious kids are rebellious AND curious.

you can have an interest in that subject, but by then I no longer consider you to have an innocent mind, so point moot.
@ polarbear: I don't see Kirito being embarrassed with Asuna like ever.

[noko]

I personally think that if a side story is written by the author, it is canon until retconned.

[noko]

[quote="Pryun"]@ polar whatever: It is written by the author as a fanfic, as it is together with other fanfics.

@ping: While I agree with most of your post, I believe in damage control. Since here at BT is where MOST people will read first hand these things, we let the innocent minds not be befouled by these kind of crap, and let those who are searching for it look somewhere else. and while we do have tomoyo after, It IS a VN which requires the game to actually enjoy the script. I think. I rarely touch VNs.[/quote]
There was a mature label there though. Anyways what kind of guardian would let an unsupervised innocent mind onto the internet?

[...]

Would 16.5 be considered canon if it was added into the anime as a hentai ova like with Princess Lover?

[Zehd]

You're welcome to take this with a grain of salt, coming from someone who merely appreciates your efforts, but I agree with the decision to remove 16.5 from the site. Not really because it's r-18, but because it just doesn't "feel right" to me; it fails in my mind to accurately depict what their immature first time would be like. All of a sudden, Kirito is sure of his expertise and skill in bed. No, it just doesn't fit. We KNOW this is Kirito's first experience because a) he sure didn't have any chance BEFORE going to SAO, and b) he didn't even know about the "Ethic Code Off" setting.

From reading volume one the first time (I didn't even know there was a 16.5 at the time I read all of it), it's just not needed: it's quite obvious what happened, and that they spent practically the entire last 2 weeks having sex, but it just doesn't need spelled out like that (and I think it's better to let our imaginations run in this situation anyway)


Of course, I'm also slightly disappointed in the Anime skipping so much of the story (ignoring some of the more interesting interactions between Kirito and Asuna, like when he started bragging of the 2nd floor of the farmhouse he was renting back on the first floor...."what... did... you... say...?")