High School DxD - Names and Terminology

[SinsI]

I really don't think that Son Wukong should be used instead of Son Goku.
We are translating a Japanese novel and should be using Japanese names, not the Chinese ones.
It's like using Ares instead of Mars, or Venus instead of Aphrodite or even Astarte.
The only case for looking for the name origins should be for names that are in katakana and are thus both foreign and garbled (due to katakana restrictions).

[Mystes]

I really don't think that Son Wukong should be used instead of Son Goku.
We are translating a Japanese novel and should be using Japanese names, not the Chinese ones.
It's like using Ares instead of Mars, or Venus instead of Aphrodite or even Astarte.
The only case for looking for the name origins should be for names that are in katakana and are thus both foreign and garbled (due to katakana restrictions).

Well, the thing is that Ares is not Mars. Venus is not Aphrodite. Though Sun Wukong and Son Goku are the same people.

If Venus was called abc in Japanese, I would rather call her Venus than abc in the English version, for example.

[Misogi]

I really don't think that Son Wukong should be used instead of Son Goku.
We are translating a Japanese novel and should be using Japanese names, not the Chinese ones.
It's like using Ares instead of Mars, or Venus instead of Aphrodite or even Astarte.
The only case for looking for the name origins should be for names that are in katakana and are thus both foreign and garbled (due to katakana restrictions).

Argument against that : Cao Cao (曹操, Sōsō). A Chinese name, we have to use it or it won't be a reference anymore.

[SinsI]

The people that are calling him Son Goku are Japanese, and the author chose japanese name, not the chinese equivalent.
We can't be sure that he is called that because of the chinese legend (what if it is the reference to Dragon Ball? I'm quite sure he is going to fire kamehamehas any moment now.)

If we really want to use an English equivalent - then we should use Monkey King. Otherwise we should go with the author's naming.

[SinsI]

Actually, now that I think of it - Issei himself is a fan of Dragon Ball, and even activates his dragon power using "kamehameha". We simply must use Dragon Ball naming for any characters from that manga appearing in DxD, including (supposedly) real life prototype of its hero.

[Hiro Hayase]

The people that are calling him Son Goku are Japanese, and the author chose japanese name, not the chinese equivalent.
We can't be sure that he is called that because of the chinese legend (what if it is the reference to Dragon Ball? I'm quite sure he is going to fire kamehamehas any moment now.)

If we really want to use an English equivalent - then we should use Monkey King. Otherwise we should go with the author's naming.

Sun Wukong (Son Goku) is named after the hero from the Chinese legends. Son Goku from Dragonball is based off of him (Sun Wukong). Bikou is a descendant of Sun Wukong's. It's not a reference to Dragonball, there are quite a number of differences from Son Goku from Dragonball and the Sun Wukong in the LN.

[SinsI]

It doesn't really matter that this Son Goku is not a character from Dragon Ball. It is enough that there are Dragon Ball references in the novels.

Ise meeting (the prototype for) his beloved anime hero means something.
Ise meeting Son Wukong just rises the question "Who's that?".

[Hiro Hayase]

It doesn't really matter that this Son Goku is not a character from Dragon Ball. It is enough that there are Dragon Ball references in the novels.

Ise meeting (the prototype for) his beloved anime hero means something.
Ise meeting Son Wukong just rises the question "Who's that?".

Exactly, Sun Wukong and Son Goku (DB) are completely different people, so its hard to see any resemblance if there is any. Sun Wukong is a master of sen-jutsu, you-jutsu, and other abilities that are true to the Chinese legends. In this story, he is Sakra (Indra's) subordinate and is hundreds of years old. The author has also stated in one of his afterwords that he will use myths and legends such as this one in his story. Hence, it makes more sense to use the original name, instead of the one from popular culture. It's more truer to the author's intent. Also, Ise doesn't admire Sun Wukong that way.

If you haven't read it yet, then I recommend reading the Chinese classic novel "Journey to the West" if you can find one in English.

About Dragonball references: I only remember seeing them explicitly in volume 1.

[tng88]

Let me say this first and foremost, I don't care about the naming of characters. Whatever the names the translating team uses I'm sure are being used according to what the writer intended or because the meaning/understanding is lost in the translation.

Now onto the reason for the post.

I haven't read JttW, so I don't know the story or plot line.

But there are similarities between DB and HSDxD past the first volumes.

1. Always facing off against stronger opponents.
-But this is trues for any series; Harry Potter, Sword of Truth, and the list goes on

2. Vali, the last descendant of the original Lucifer. He at first was a rival to Ise but was defeated by Ise using both Boosted Gear and Divine Dividing. This relationship is similar to the Vegeta/Goku relationship.
-Vali doesn't fights Ise to prove his superiority as a pure blooded devil but to prove who is the stronger Dragon Emporer. Completely different from the Vegeta/Goku relationship.

3. Ise dying or constantly getting taking a beating. Something happened to Goku.
-Ise's death or beatings served the purpose of helping his comrades reach the next level of their powers. Goku's death was used as a way for Goku to reach the next level of HIS power.

As for Son Wukong being called Goku, I don't care. Like Goku does at the end of DBGT, Son Wukong in the LN rides a green/jade dragon. Does Son Wukong ride a green/jade dragon at the end of JttW? I there's a dragon horse but that's different from a dragon.

That's my two cents. This wasn't meant to add fuel to fire of naming conventions but to show there are similarities but they can be argued away.

[Hiro Hayase]

@tng88 All those points you mentioned can just as easily fall under the shounen genre tag, not exclusively to Dragonball. All that information is great and all, but its not really relevant to the Sun Wukong/Son Goku discussion. We're not talking about the plot here, but rather the character in question. However, thanks for your input.

Adding on to my earlier post:

The explicit reference I was talking about were the Kamehame-ha's in volume 1. Just like Misogi said, we have to use the Chinese name, or it won't be a reference anymore. Sun Wukong is the former Monkey King, while his foolish descendant Bikou is the current Monkey King. Sun Wukong is considered to be influenced by the Hindu deity Hanuman. As you can see here, there is a rich Hindu background that Sun Wukong possesses that Son Goku does not as well as other elements from Chinese folklore and culture. Sun Wukong is an influential cultural figure in Chinese, so it makes more sense to use the Chinese name. Not to mention, Sun Wukong is the subordinate of Sakra (Indra), a chief deity in the Hindu religion. Do you see the connection now?

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... 49/Hanuman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra

An example of one trait that sets Sun Wukong and Son Goku from Dragonball apart is that the former was very diligent with his studies and he is knowledgeable about all kinds of different magics. Furthermore it was all self-taught.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_Goku_% ... he_West%29

Wiki seems to have a good article about Sun Wukong. His abilities include knowing spells that can command wind, the ability to part water, conjure protective circles against demons, and freeze humans, demons, and gods alike. He also has several other titles besides Monkey King such as Great Sage Equal of Heaven (Qi Tian Da Sheng) which is pronounced Seiten Taisei in Japanese.

....Furthermore we shouldn't even be having this discussion, since Sun Wukong officially debuts at the end of volume 9, which is not translated yet.




P.S. That's a bit of my research results.

P.S.S. Seiten Taisei is Sun Wukong in Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 2. He's a deadly monkey king in that game.

[krytyk]

Son Goku is loosely based on Sun Wukong, tho in original its not even Son Goku but just Goku, there's some references in dragonball that show similarities, Goku having a tail, like a monkey, flyin on the cloud and stuff. But i say, technically speaking it's Sun Wukong, tho it would be acceptable for Ise, and just Ise, who's a guy that probably knows Dragonball more then the Journey to the west to use "son goku"

[Just4fun]

Hey guys the one that you use is Sekiryuutei(Red Dragon Emperor) right??... just asking...

[krytyk]

Right.

[SinsI]

Ise's call to summon his Sacred Gear was translated as "Kamehameha".
The Kamehameha is "かめはめ波", "Turtle Devastation Wave".
What he actually says is "ドラゴン波”, "Dragon Wave".
Should we change it?

[krytyk]

I don't think its neccessary, it could be intended that way, as the light novel has many references to dragonball, also, ise is a teenager who's actually a fan of that one. So it, being not exactly "kamehameha" might be just a way to avoid using original (copyrighted most likely) ability name.