ばか！バカ！　馬鹿ー月！

I honestly don't think the reasons we are given for Tatsuya not being able to 'poof' 100% of the things is particularly logical but in the Katsuto example Tatsuya would still win regardless. His psion count is higher and he has yet to abuse flash casting ( this is the secret he seems to want to hide the most along with the bomb one ) and flash casting is the fastest available casting speed, even captain shields couldn't bring them up fast enough.

Do we know he has a higher Psion-count? We know his is extremely high, but Katsuto being of the Ten Master Clans and for example being able to use phalanx continuously in battle, suggests his is also very high.
Also I don't know if it would become a battle of attrition. Attrition would suggest that neither has any other resources. And by that I'm mainly talking about Katsuto being able to attack, both physically and magically.
If we were to disregard flash cast for a moment, that would mean that Katsuto would presumably be faster or have at least have enough time to use his Phalanx on Tatsuya. That would mean the barriers would come crashing down on him, instead of being used a shield. That would also leave time for Katsuto to attack physically and after the punch/kick he'd have time to use magic.
If we were to include flash cast:
first of all, we don't know he can use flash cast with decomposition. He has only used twice, in v10 to cast some object deceleration spell (while mentioning him casting a barrier would be to weak) and in v11 with some oscillation spell.

Decomposition is a very complex and unique spell, so it's possible he can't flash cast that,which would mean Katsuto would have the advantage; if he can, well then without getting the drop on him, it would be impossible.

nr42 wrote:Decomposition is a very complex and unique spell

As unique as it is, we don't know how complex it is, and what are the limits of Flash Cast (unless we do, and I just can't remember - that too is a possibility).
Regardless, I agree - there are many unknowns, unlike in Nasuverse, we're not being provided with handy lists and RPG-like statistics which would give at least some straightforward way of comparing the power between two characters/techniques/what have you, and Katsuto is likely to prevail in their battle as someone with the most resistance against Tatsuya's magic.

Well, the main reason for it becoming war of atrotion is, because Tatsuya is quite fast and has much greater range. Of course if it was a melee it might be a different matter, but with Tatsuya´s speed he should be capable of retreeting while decomposing the atacks of Katsuto and after that as the distance would greaten Katsuto would have no way to tuch him. I think it was mentioned, that phalanx has limited range and well, it is deffinitelly smaller than Tatsuya´s and even if it did reach Tatsuya would have too much of time to decompose it and it would be much weaker. So in the end Katsuto would have to concentrate on defence, and there would be no easy way to use decomposition on him. Well generally speaking in that case it would be quite easy for Tatsuya to preserve his powers and only sometimes atack him a bit and Katsuto would have to use phalanx continuously, but that could take several hours, therefore he said it would be a war of atrotion.
As for flash cast decomposition, who knows whether he can use it, well my personal opinion is, that he can´t, but he deffinitely can cast it in an insane speed.

Tatsuya is the main character, when his sister released his seal his psion count was described as a sun, no Katsuto won't best him in psion count. Katsuto is without a question a super unit but he can never be faster than Tatsuya movement wise, during the nine schools competition it was implied he could flash cast his movement speed meaning he can always stay out of range of whatever Katsuto throws at him but even then he can decompose 10+ targets at once ( don't remember the exact amount, it was during practice for something ) so yeah while Katsuto may be able to avoid his insta win button it doesn't mean he can best him.

Oh forgot something, even if he does get hit by whatever, he's immortal in the most cheating of ways so ......

While I do agree that in all likelihood Tatsuya's psion count is higher than Katsuto's, I don't think Tatsuya is faster than Katsuto. Just because he is able to flash cast his movement spell, doesn't mean it will be stronger and even if it were, that still wouldn't make it anywhere near as strong as the movement type spell Katsuto would cast.
And at the same time he's able to use his barrier magic .(v4: Monolith Code finals)

Tatsuya is faster than anyone presented thus far, by a mile. That's just a fact, not a point of debate. I would in fact be surprised if they introduced a faster character movement wise seeing as they could have to do very specific things that I think are too complex in the first place.

I don't think Katsuto has the power to supress Tatsuya instantly to prevent him from moving out of his range where Tatsuya is the inevitable victor, I do believe when they do clash Tatsuya won't use this strategy however and be more of a closer quarter type of deal due to the story dictating it for some reason.

Tatsuya will still win there, question is how much of his true worth will he have to use for that victory.

Haxton Fale wrote:

nr42 wrote:Decomposition is a very complex and unique spell, so it's possible he can't flash cast that,which would mean Katsuto would have the advantage; if he can, well then without getting the drop on him, it would be impossible.

As unique as it is, we don't know how complex it is, and what are the limits of Flash Cast (unless we do, and I just can't remember - that too is a possibility).

While decomposition hasn't been stated to be complex, it has been stated to be known as magic of the highest difficulty and means it requires an MCA with sufficient talent.

Tatsuya's ability to memorize magic sequences and skip the normal casting processes (Tatsuya's Flash Cast) was stated to be a by-product of the artificial MCA experiment, which turned out to be a bit rubbish. So Tatsuya definitely cannot use his Flash Cast technique with his highly difficult innate magics, and is why we see him using the Cad all the time to enhance his casting of his innate magics. Eitherway, since they are his innate magics he could use them fast enough as is even without a CAD, when compared to most other magicians.

crisisavatar wrote:Tatsuya is faster than anyone presented thus far, by a mile. That's just a fact, not a point of debate. I would in fact be surprised if they introduced a faster character movement wise seeing as they could have to do very specific things that I think are too complex in the first place.

If we are talking about fast movement then the novel shows that this is not true in every case. I agree Tatsuya using pure leg techniques has been shown to be just as fast or faster than other students who use self acceleration magic. But the novel shows that there are other adept speed magic users like his master who taught him the technique and can match him in a fight or the 3 Chiba's, and instantaneous movement magic users like the possessed magician in v13 or Ayako. In the novel Tatsuya's has mostly been mistaken for using self acceleration magic rather than being identified as being able to move faster than others.

Katsuto is stated to be a very talented youngster who can effortlessly use multiple different magics simultaneously. If, for some unknown reason, Tatsuya did decide to fight him and planned to get close and then use speed or movement magic to avoid Juumonji's attacks, it would still be difficult since not only can Juumonji use his own impressive speed and movement magic to follow if he so chose, he is stated to be able to create several dozens of barriers at a moderate distance which he could, at the same time enhancing his speed, put in front or even behind of his opponent.

While its unlikely, the novel gives no real indication that Katsuto or even Masaki specifically have a lower psion count than the Shiba siblings. Real fights whether magic or no magic are normally decided by who is able to successfully strike first and I feel Tatsuya has some real kick ass advantages in distance, countering magic and an instant undo button if he falls first. But Tatsuya's v4 comment itself wasn't about actually comparing who would win in a fight, but commenting on how not only did his and Katsuto's personalities seem to naturally oppose one another, but also how their signature magics opposed one another. In a real fight there are other important factors and each combatant would try and vary their tactics and techniques to try and take the other out.

On the movement part you're mistaken, Tatsuya has never flash casted his speed, any comparison to others thus far have only been with normal physical skills or regular casted magic, Tatsuya flash casting movement has no equal yet.

What about Naotsugu, he specialize in fast movement if I am not mistaken. As long as we speak about long term movement he should be faster (though instantenous one might be a bit lagging behind Tatsuya).

By the way, has anybody else realized, that Tatsuya should be capable of achieving immortality and perpetual youth? As long as he rewinds his aging every day he will never get older than he was at him specificated point of time. Or rather, he won´t even get diseases and he will never get out of condition.

Zuruumi wrote:By the way, has anybody else realized, that Tatsuya should be capable of achieving immortality and perpetual youth? As long as he rewinds his aging every day he will never get older than he was at him specificated point of time. Or rather, he won´t even get diseases and he will never get out of condition.

I personally believe this would not allow for a proper rest of his mind and magic and he would die at a younger age due to overusing his innate magic. As seen with what happened to his mother and grand father.

crisisavatar wrote:On the movement part you're mistaken, Tatsuya has never flash caster his speed, any comparison to others thus far have only been with normal physical skills or regular casted magic, Tatsuya flash casting movement has no equal yet.

I think we are talking about 2 different things. Are you referring to magically aided movement speed, or magic activation speed?

Tatsuya flash casting self acceleration or movement magics only means his magic works first. It doesn't mean his movement speed would be greater than another talented magician using the same magic. Tatsuya's regular magic skill will always be below average in actual results, Flash Cast only allows him to skip steps and use the magic instantly. But the result would still be below average speed and movement magic aid.

I see how my theory is flawed, I still think they will make him the fastest character regardless thought ( they can just have him react faster than his opponent and infinite dodge ).

Yeah, his reaction would be faster, but as long as we are talking about:"Who will run 1500 meters with magic the fastest" then there should be quite many faster ones. Well, if flying magic doesen´t count, as long as we count in flying magic than he might seriously be one of the fastest.

Zuruumi wrote:Well, if flying magic doesen´t count, as long as we count in flying magic than he might seriously be one of the fastest.

Why? He sucks at all magic, so that'll include flying magic. Just because he developed it doesn't mean he's good at it.

nr42 wrote:

Zuruumi wrote:Well, if flying magic doesen´t count, as long as we count in flying magic than he might seriously be one of the fastest.

Why? He sucks at all magic, so that'll include flying magic. Just because he developed it doesn't mean he's good at it.

Didn't you read the way he used it in the Yokohama disturbance fight? That right there showed how good he is at using it.