Proposal about translation percentage

[Clead]

I know it's nothing important, but you now, I'll try to ask about it. I'm not so sure about if it has been talked already, but I don't think so.

I'm in charge of SaW Spanish Project, and I find some kind of disturbing work I have to manage to update the web constantly so the info is accurate. The problem is pretty stupid but I think everyone that is working in other projects will understand my proposal.

Actually, I'm translating vol 3 chap 2 from the English novels, so I do know more or less how much of the chapter is already translated using an easy an only aproximated math operation: "words done/total words of original" (lines will work too and think that will be more accurated)

So the proposal is if the Wiki itself could make this operation so I don't have to update the 3 pages: registry, main and chapter pages; each time I make some translation.

Something like [[Words:SaW spanish V3 C2|Words:SaW V3 C2]]%

would do but lines works as well or even better. And even if the second number should be a constant integer. (example: [[Lines: Saw spanish V3 C2|600]]%)

[ShadowZeroHeart]

I know it's nothing important, but you now, I'll try to ask about it. I'm not so sure about if it has been talked already, but I don't think so.

I'm in charge of SaW Spanish Project, and I find some kind of disturbing work I have to manage to update the web constantly so the info is accurate. The problem is pretty stupid but I think everyone that is working in other projects will understand my proposal.

Actually, I'm translating vol 3 chap 2 from the English novels, so I do know more or less how much of the chapter is already translated using an easy an only aproximated math operation: "words done/total words of original" (lines will work too and think that will be more accurated)

So the proposal is if the Wiki itself could make this operation so I don't have to update the 3 pages: registry, main and chapter pages; each time I make some translation.

Something like [[Words:SaW spanish V3 C2|Words:SaW V3 C2]]%

would do but lines works as well or even better. And even if the second number should be a constant integer. (example: [[Lines: Saw spanish V3 C2|600]]%)

To do so wont u need a good code? One that computes itself?
In that case, you must first take note of how many lines there actually is... and if you have time to count it, i think you would rather translate more text? ^^" Though it may not be impossible if you go by page, but you will have to keep track of how many pages i guess? Well, i havent studied enough in the area to say for sure... but i doubt that is easy...

[Clead]

Any programming language can count the lines in about 0.3 s as so I use the word to tell my how many words or lines there are in it.

P.D.:Shit... I touched what I shouldnt have touch sorry. I editted without knowing exactly was i was doing, but I leaved it how it was. sorry for the trouble.

[ShadowZeroHeart]

Any programming language can count the lines in about 0.3 s as so I use the word to tell my how many words or lines there are in it.

P.D.:Shit... I touched what I shouldnt have touch sorry. I editted without knowing exactly was i was doing, but I leaved it how it was. sorry for the trouble.

Oh... u are using a soft copy raw? ^^"
Mine is novel, so i have to count by pages of a novel =X
coz or else you cannot have a percentage of current/total lines =X
Forget i said anything then ^^" sorry to barge in

[Clead]

Even for your work, you can use an aproximation to tell how much of work is done already. If you can automatically update every single % progress of your work even if it count 5 on 5 (5, 10, 15 ...) it makes easier to understand for any person who pass by.

BTW, what is soft copy raw?

[ShadowZeroHeart]

Wont that require a total 100% value first?
Every chapter has different number of lines and words.
Furthermore we must recall that after translation the counts may be different.
So we do not know the number ourselves... it is just our own rough estimation of % done in my case... like out of 48pages i take 10 pages to be 20%
>"<
is there a better way to count that i do not know of?

[Clead]

Yeah of course, and that's the way I most or less do it, but I was thinking about automatically generating that value so you dont have to update it in every page that number appear. In my case, registration, main and actual chapter pages.

Over needing a 100% value, for myselft it doesn't matter if at some point the counter shows a 105% even if it havent been finalized yet, but for most of the time it shows a somehow accurate value. Even so, you can use chapter lines (parrafs) as a guide, because normally, there will be the same number of parrafs in the original and in the translated.

imagine that you have translated 30 parrafs from 540 if the wiki automatically makes the operation
30/540*100 %
it will show 5.56% (for example)
and if somehow you end with 553 parrafs from 540 (maybe because separating conversations and narrative parts about them), the result will be:
553/540*100= 102.41% that isnt too exagerate strange value.

The only problem i can think about, is about the double-enter way of separating the parrafs; as for that using the wiki code you can put something like:

[[Parraf:Saw spa v3 c1|double|Parraf:SaW v3 c1| single]]

[Smidge204]

This would require some pretty advanced scripting.

First, you would need to know how much text there's going to be. This is not possible unless it's told - there is no way for the computer to compare the original Japanese text and know how far along the English text is, for example.

Second, you would need to get the script to trigger at an appropriate time. There are a few ways to do this:

1) Detect when the chapter is edited, calculate the progress, then automagically update the main project page.

2) Detect when the main project page is accessed, and update on the fly

3) Periodically check and update as required

The first two options require modification to the WIkipedia codebase, which is an adventure. The third option requires setting up a cron job (easy to do) but might end up running amok. All of these options carry risk of corrupting the database unless you go through WIkipedia's script to ensure there will be no access conflicts.

Lastly, do these automatic edits appear in the edit history or not? That's another table in the database that needs updating.

-----

The alternative is to just ignore the % progress. There is nothing forcing you to do that. You can simply put "En curso" next to it and then remove it when it's done.

If you don't like it, don't do it. Very simple.
=Smidge=

[Clead]

I thought of it done on fly, but if the wiki needs modifications to do so, then is something different; I just wanted to know if there were such a possibility.

Maybe in an update for the wiki codebase would be possible to add this function.


There are just 3 pages, i can manage it myself like ive been doing i was just being lazy, so dont worry about it, and thx for the detailed answer.

[Vaelis]

There are just 3 pages, i can manage it myself like ive been doing i was just being lazy, so dont worry about it, and thx for the detailed answer.

Why are you updating the % on 3 pages?
You only have to update the % on the main page and that's all.
You don't put the % on the chapter page (it's already on the main page)
You only put "completed" on the registration page when it's completed at 100%.

[Clead]

It's my own way of doing things, as I'm alone there is no one to stop me from doing stupid stuff.

[ShadowZeroHeart]

It's my own way of doing things, as I'm alone there is no one to stop me from doing stupid stuff.

Now there is...

Anyways, you can just update one place, in my case, the contents page for the novel.
Actually as long as you place it somewhere where people can see the progress, i think even putting it only at the chapter page is fine... It is meant for readers/editors to know how much more of the chapter to go afterall

[onizuka-gto]

The percentage method was introduce to show readers and editors that there was progress.

It more or less stopped the nagging the translators got from eager and impatient readers.

People like to see something, anything that will keep them hoping it will be finished soon.

However, it was up to the translators and it was only meant as a general guideline that was not meant to be a literal or accurate reflection of the project progress.

really, you shouldn't have to worry about it.

It's more or less up to you, as long as no major deviation in layout as mentioned in the general guidelines are noticeable, its fine.

[Krikit]

Yeah, like next April fools or something, editing one of the projects chapters to make it seem like it was supposed to happen, and then putting 100% by it. haha, now that'd be funny....

*ahem*

But yeah, the percentage thing is done mainly by the Translators as a way we can tell readers what progress we're at, and how much longer they have to wait for the completion of the novel. The percentage usually is put on the Contents Page (the main page of each individual project) where the percentages for all the chapters can all be seen together. It doesn't take too much time, and it can be rough, it doesn't have to be 100%.