Sidebar Changes

[Teh_ping]

If there's nothing else (given my disappointment in the lack of response), I'll proceed with sidebar changes within 48 hours. (bracketed are unlikely)

Currently, the proposed plan is:

-Network
-->...
-All English projects
-Alt Language projects
-(Current Anime Season)
-Popular Series - 20 series or so.
-Completed Series
-Visual Novels
-Original LNs
...

Honestly, I wish we have a 'random project' sort of function, but given the many languages we have on the wiki, I don't think it'll work out well.

[Cthaeh]

Honestly, I wish we have a 'random project' sort of function, but given the many languages we have on the wiki, I don't think it'll work out well.

Well, if you just wanted a random English full project.

[Teh_ping]

Honestly, I wish we have a 'random project' sort of function, but given the many languages we have on the wiki, I don't think it'll work out well.

Well, if you just wanted a random English full project.

it's perfect, Cthaeh.

[Cthaeh]

Also, if the links to categories system is implemented, I guess that means it no longer requires an administrator to upgrade project from teasers to full, since anyone can change page categories.

And a minor issue that becomes more relevant if this sidebar is implemented is that a supervisor should remove the "Light novel (English)" category from Sword Art Online, which is protected from edits.

[Teh_ping]

Also, if the links to categories system is implemented, I guess that means it no longer requires an administrator to upgrade project from teasers to full, since anyone can change page categories.

And a minor issue that becomes more relevant if this sidebar is implemented is that a supervisor should remove the "Light novel (English)" category from Sword Art Online, which is protected from edits.

1. Admittedly, anyone can add their project to the list, which can be a bad thing due to unchecked edits, so it'll mean more supervision will be required such that the promotion policy is as followed.

2. That, and the fact that we need to do the same thing for later projects like Index and so on...well, not like I'm not unavailable.

[KuroiHikari]

Such supervision is not ideal and hard. We can't do 24/7 check on every project edits and it would be a waste of manpower of supervisors.

[cloudii]

If there's nothing else (given my disappointment in the lack of response), I'll proceed with sidebar changes within 48 hours. (bracketed are unlikely)

Currently, the proposed plan is:

-Network
-->...
-All English projects
-Alt Language projects
-(Current Anime Season)
-Popular Series - 20 series or so.
-Completed Series
-Visual Novels
-Original LNs
...

Honestly, I wish we have a 'random project' sort of function, but given the many languages we have on the wiki, I don't think it'll work out well.

Don't really like the idea of current anime season. That would be better featured on the actual main page (as opposed to the sidebar), but I'd prefer to wait until another proposal for a main page redesign comes around. You can generally get ideas of how to arrange the main page + sidebar from the chinese sites, because I think they're pretty nicely organized.

lknovel.lightnovel is really pretty, for example.

I'm just curious, but is there any way to get more html/css control over the main page? I know it'd probably end up being a special custom page, but I think it's a worthwhile investment to make the Wiki even more epic and awesome. ;D (example: http://translatewiki.net/)

[Hiyono]

Can I just say that I disapprove of such a vague and subjective classification for what qualifies as "top 30" series? There are series included in there which haven't been updated in forever and are of debatable "popularity" such as Kaze no Stigma, Papa no Iu Koto wo Kikinasai!, and Maria-sama ga Miteru. It's clear the old numbers were at least partially involved, but they're old.

[cloudii]

Can I just say that I disapprove of such a vague and subjective classification for what qualifies as "top 30" series? There are series included in there which haven't been updated in forever and are of debatable "popularity" such as Kaze no Stigma, Papa no Iu Koto wo Kikinasai!, and Maria-sama ga Miteru. It's clear the old numbers were at least partially involved, but they're old.

I have to agree with Hiyono here.

First of all, if it's going to be popular series, I think it should be ranked. (i.e.: #1 is the most popular). Why should it be ranked? Because as a reader (and translator), perhaps it might be upsetting to realize that someone "up there in the Administration" is subjectively deciding "what's popular." It's not fair and I think we're inviting people who'd say: "Why isn't Fate/Zero, Golden Time, or Psycome on there when Ero Manga Sensei is? Isn't that just prejudice and opinion?"

When you sort the list alphabetically, we're asking for misunderstandings and it makes the list look subjective.

In my opinion, it has to be objective. Until TLG install's Simon view-count tracker, the only way I'd support the "popular series" section happening is from the statistics 6 months from the wiki special page (or alternatively from Eusth's statistics, from which we can probably obtain rates of view-age).

Lastly, I think the links to the Full Projects and Teaser Projects aren't prominent enough. Can you make them bigger?

[Cthaeh]

Tsuki Tsuki! probably shouldn't be in the "completed" section. The translation of the most recent volume (12) isn't finished (Edit: I see that Ping already replied to this first point when someone else raised it in a facebook post). And I don't believe that volume 12 is the series last volume, though I don't pay much attention to the series, so it's possible I missed that fact.

My main question for now is how will the authority to upgrade projects (remove from teaser category and add to Light novel (English) category) be managed? Is anyone allowed to do that once the full project requirements have been met? I'd actually be in favor of opening it up to anyone, and just having a requirement of notifying the admin contact page. It's seems like it'd be unnecessarily annoying to have to police people changing category tags and undo it when they've done it for a project that has met the requirements and would otherwise just be waiting for admin attention.

[hayashi_s]

Been out of the loop for real life reasons. Anyway, my two cents on the matter:

The top 30 LNs shouldn't be on the sidebar. If anything it should be something on the front page like a special feature, while the sidebar should be used for ease of navigation( at least that's how I see it.)

Can I also just say that inactive LNs shouldn't be on the sidebar? It gives the wrong impression that there is a trqnslator working on it and if anything it will make readers whine more since there's a level of expectation. Anything sidebared should have at least a decent level of activity

[pudding321]

Can I also just say that inactive LNs shouldn't be on the sidebar? It gives the wrong impression that there is a trqnslator working on it and if anything it will make readers whine more since there's a level of expectation. Anything sidebared should have at least a decent level of activity

Well, the sidebar is for searching light novels, including inactive ones.
I guess the update feed on the project page gives away the status of the project already.

[Hiyono]

If the issue of what passes for "popular" varies depending on the person, then why not use an extension like this, which allows users to customize their own sidebar. That way each person can select which projects they would personally like in their sidebar if they so desire.

[Gohankuten]

I have to say I actually preferred the old layout for the sidebar. I am the type that would always click each link on the sidebar whenever a new project was shifted to it to see if it would interest me as a project to read. That's the way I would always find new series to read. Sometimes I would even go back down the list and start giving chances to series I may have passed up earlier. And if I didn't want to see the projects on the side bar I could just do 1 click and hide them(though I never did since I would always monitor for a new project getting bumped up to display). Though the main projects page does work I hate having that extra click to get to it when normally I could just browse the sidebar as I was reading a new chapter release or checking what update happened on a project. It was just more efficient for me time wise.

[krytyk]

I have to say I actually preferred the old layout for the sidebar. I am the type that would always click each link on the sidebar whenever a new project was shifted to it to see if it would interest me as a project to read. That's the way I would always find new series to read. Sometimes I would even go back down the list and start giving chances to series I may have passed up earlier. And if I didn't want to see the projects on the side bar I could just do 1 click and hide them(though I never did since I would always monitor for a new project getting bumped up to display). Though the main projects page does work I hate having that extra click to get to it when normally I could just browse the sidebar as I was reading a new chapter release or checking what update happened on a project. It was just more efficient for me time wise.

Sidebar as it was had to leave, since its size increased into a ridiculous size. However I'm not not convinced by the new version of it. I mainly agree with hiyo, cloudi, and hayashi.

As for the current choice of "top series", it seems to be based on 'popular pages' which uses the view counter that was disabled probably a year ago, and as such it doesn't reflect current project popularity anyhow, moreover it will lead to disputes over which projects are "top", it could be solved either by updating the "top" list every month based on previous month's stats (we still have disabled view counter) and that would be fair, however there are more problems that appear if that's done. First problem would be: the new+popular project would be not notice'able until it was there for a month to gather up views. Second: sidebar itself would add popularity to series already on it, thus leading to stagnation, it would be harder for non-sidebar project to attract attention than one on sidebar.

And yeah, I like the customizable sidebar.. look through the series, pick up the ones you're interested in and add them to the sidebar. I think that's quite reasonable?