Baka-Tsuki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Toaru Majutsu no Index

2011-03-12T04:13:07Z

Stiyl: /* Terminology */

[http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1697525#post1697525 Illustration overview] reminder found in the project forum...

== How I enlist ? ==

I done reading to aru majutsu no index chapter 9. So i want to post it in here.
Is it possible? How can I post it anyway? Japanese to Indonesia. japanese to englist. - ([[User:Kili|Kili]])

Well, you could really just post it unless you want specific clearance from the moderators at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2148&start=195 project forum]. For the Indonesian one, you should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Indonesian" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Repose

actuality I already completed translate english. Not so hard to make it to indonesia. but if I done where and how post it ? - ([[User:Kili|Kili]])

The Indonesian version? For that you have to create the Alternate Language Project similar to other Alternate Language Projects with the complete translation of the Project Page (as a naming example: <nowiki>[[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]]</nowiki> ([[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]])), Registration Page, a thread in the Alternate Language Subforum in the Baka-Tsuki Forum and at least one translated Chapter to get the approval to continue the project. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 23:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

it so hard for to made but I will keep trying. I need time to study about it.

am i wrong ?

I've just joined up, and have registered on the TAMNI register page, is that good enough? I can't seem to get into the forum link. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Should be just fine, as I assume you'll be translating to English like the other things you've done. I suppose you don't need the forum unless you want to set up a project page up or want to discuss translation terms, but still, not sure why the links don't work for you. --[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

==Chapter 2: Doubt_Lovers.==
The link refer to "http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume5_'''Chapter1'''" So I think of them is wrong?
--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 12:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks EnigmaticRepose for fixing it!--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 00:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

==What the shit.==
Why would a translation project start at volume 12 instead of volume 1? Imagine watching the Lord of the Rings movie series for the first time in your life...except instead of watching it starting from the first movie, you skip to the middle of the 3rd movie during the seige of Gondor. And as you sit through the movie you keep going "Oh this sword guy is kinda cool whats his name? And who is this Sauron guy?".

you, whoever you are, are being horrendously rude and ungrateful for the fact that the translators (you seem pointed at [[user:Joay|Joay]] in particular) not only translate these novels, they do it for free. Besides that, volumes 1 through 6 are covered by the anime, and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index_light_novels] has synopses of all the novels. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Also since the translators have the power, they can decide what they like to translate, so if you could translate as well you could start with volume 1 if you like it... or with chapter x in volume y ;) So if you dont cant and dont like it you dont have to read it. I am gratful for that what we have, so should you too if you like to read more of those otherwise unobtainable unreadable volumes. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 08:34, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

hmm, now that volume 7 and 9 are translated and volume 10 is being translated, i'd like to ask if there is a specific reason that volume 8 was skipped.? It doesn't really matter though, since i was just wondering if maybe the story in 8 takes place in a different time than 7->9. other than that, i'm fine with waiting, since you're all (yeah, you translators ^_^ ) doing a fantastic job at translating this so far. keep up the good work.
oh yeah, and... Ganbare!--[[User:AzraRillian|-AzraRillian - Transcend The Sin - "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body." C.S. Lewis]] 03:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

===Took me five months to even notice this, sorry...===

The reason why I did Volumes 9 and 10 before volume 8 was basically because of a request (the first guy who PMed me when I worked on this project asked me whether I can do Volume 9 first. So, sorry...?

And to the guy who has been complaining about Volume 1 not being translated first, well, no point talking about it now when out of a sudden, there are three guys working on volume 1 now (I'm really, really glad to have other people share the workload). Like what [[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] said, the anime has pretty much covered most of the important aspects, and since there's a sizeable fandom of it that can provide all sorts of information, you're not really in the dark regarding what has happened. The 'Lord of the Rings' idea doesn't really work since you would have most likely gone about trying to find out what's going on in order to answer the question of 'what's going on?' Or did you not even bother looking for it?

Well, instead of complaining, you might as well do something about it if you can. Orders are nothing if the actions are not done, you know. We're not entitled to do this for you, we're not even paid to do this. We're doing this only because we want to. We translators here are like Kamijo Touma, we don't have a reason to do things, we just do it.

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

== What tense to use? ==

So, after reading some chapters of the seventh volume I would like to ask a question. What tense would you use in descriptions? Right now I’m doing some edits on the translated texts but there is always this one thing I’m tripping over. In this volume, and most likely also in the others, we have a third person narrator. In this case you would normally write the descriptions or narrations in the past tense, right? That’s what I would do at least and is commonly done in the most English novels. But as it is, there are some differences in the Asian and the English writing and that includes the used tenses. Because of these differences the translator decided to use the present tense in the above-named cases (most of the time at least). Of course, this isn’t a mistake, but I often feel like it would be one. Perhaps I’m just too used reading the past tense in descriptions but to me, with some exceptions, it often feels awkward when I read some of them in present tense. I would like to get some more opinions on this matter. Is it just me who has this problem or do you think the same as me? [[user:AJS90|AJS90]] 21 March 2010

I've really just been using present tense for everything, which I based off of how the translators worded it. It's a bit weird for the narrator to do so, but eh, I'm used to it already. ...On a side note, it's nice not being the only editor anymore. ~EnigmaticRepose

Yeah, I've been using present tense for my edits, too- but only because there might be a convention in light novels regarding it that I'm unaware of. Better safe than sorry, you know? I MIGHT try a past-tense sweep edit for second opinions, but only after I'm done with my ongoing ones.--Tactician J 03:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== About translating. ==

well to be honest, i dont know all that much japanese so i cant really translate, i however have atlas, so the question is can i use atlas as a raw draft and then start editing from there?

another dumb question i have is if there's a reason why the novels are listed only up to volume 13? because i can find them easily on hongfire or emule if anyone needs them.

No, atlas will just lead to shit translations and cause more trouble then what's it worth - response

Unfortunately, translation software will normally make it harder for anyone to translate. You can use it from time to time to check some harder words, but the best is if you have knowledge of Japanese, Chinese, or Korean (Correct me on this one if I'm wrong.) and translate it manually, since it's hard for anyone to start working on it if they don't know what the text is about in the first place. ~Teh Ping

You could try it, but I would wonder and call you very lucky if the outcome isnt gibberish --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:23, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== I need illustrations for Volume 10 ==

Exactly what's written on it. Would the uploader kindly upload the illustrations of the other volumes? Many thanks in advance.~Teh Ping

would it be enough a link of megaupload volumes 1-16 and with the illustration? anyway heres the link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2AS0PZD7
-ark

== Pic translation ==
Ah, could someone translate the pics too, if there is on them something to translate, please? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 05:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Most the pictures just have quotes from the novel, with additional tiny descriptions, like 'Academy City Tokiwadai Student' or 'English Purist "Church of Necessary Evil (Necessarius)' and the like, so you aren't missing much. It's really just a fit it in the context after you read it, as they're supposed to be teasers for the story anyway (which is why they're placed in the beginning).

Hm, I thought it would be nice - like we have it for Sword Art Online especially since we dont have translations for all volumes, so some teasers would be nice ;). Have meant only pics like those: [[:Image:Index v01 002-003.jpg|Image 1]]; [[:Image:Index v01 004-005.jpg|Image 2]]; [[:Image:Index v01 006-007.jpg|Image 3]] --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 10:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

== Just a slight concern. ==

As Joay and I are busy with our own stuff, I suppose that there should be some sort of a Project Supervisor around to keep check of certain stuff. There will be updates in the future, as Twi will continue to translate this series (hopefully), but I hope that there's someone to keep this series in check, since it's no longer a 'small' project anymore (I guess, since YMMV). ~Teh Ping

== Spanish section request ==

I would like to start a spanish section for the novels.--[[Special:Contributions/190.41.2.140|190.41.2.140]] 22:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

You should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Spanish" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up. Registering may also be a good idea. An Indonesian one was also set up, so you could use that as a reference. --EnigmaticRepose

== I'll try to translate a bit ==

Currently my japanese is iffy at best, but as i'm studying it might as well give it a shot.I'll try to pick up the 1st chapter of volume one (no one's doing it right?). I'm asking here first as well, i don't know if i can manage it yet.
If i manage to somehow not embarrass myself too much doing that i'll register, and work on the rest of the volume.
Again, i can't be sure i'll manage it so... best try it out first then see.--[[User:AADragon|AADragon]] 16:35, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

No one would say something against it, just feel free to ge ahead, but best would be to register the chapter before, even if it is not very probable that some other translator would translate it anytime soon, but wonder happens sometime, so just to be safe ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Thanks for your work!!==
Glad to see translated this novel series by Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for working so hard and fast.
At this point, I can say that the translators will surpass Index II(by JCStaff) in covering the novels :)

another fan of Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for all of the great work ^^)/

== Translations? ==

I'm new here, and I want to translate some stuff.
I was reading the chinese version and randomly decided to translate V1C4 from Chinese to English.

Do I need some sort of clearance? Or can I just go ahead and upload my stuff (especially since my translation quality is most definitely sub-par)?

===Go ahead and just upload it===

The editors will be helping out with the language. I'll also help you proofread it if you want.

Over here, there's no need for any bureaucratic red tape. Any translator can just upload their stuff here, so you can just upload it.

EDIT: Still having a bit of trouble with the formatting, garr...

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:51, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Some Question ==

Er.... So, I already translated about three chapter and half from the 2nd Volume...
and the question is... How do I upload it? Any clues?

===Here's what you need===

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Format_guideline#Wiki_Editing_Tips

1. First, go to the volume that you want to upload.

2. Do you see the edit button on the top right hand corner? Click it.

3. Look at the 'Internal link' section, that is how you're going to add hyperlinks. (You can look at the other volumes for reference)

4. If you did it right, the words should be in red, click on it.

5. Now, you should be in a new page. Click on the 'create' button at the top.

6. Upload the text that you have already translated. (Make sure to press 'enter' once after every paragraph so that it's easier to
read.)

7. Next, the headings. At the wiki editing tips page, look at the 'headings' section (well, duh).

8. If you see the format used on all B-T texts, you'll probably get an idea of how to do it. (Just copy what they do.)

9. For pictures, it's under 'thumbnail image', the 'picture' would be from the illustrations of the volume that's available here. If I want a picture from say 'Volume 1 page 031', the format would be <nowiki>[[Image:Index_v01_031.jpg|thumb]]</nowiki>

10. For a footer, just go to any completed chapter here, copy the scripts for the footer, and make the necessary edits.

If you need any more help, you can pm me.

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I wonder what happened with this translator and translation... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

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==VOLUME 11==

english Volume 11 has been sabed over by the spanish version. Any chance of recovery?

===Erm, excuse me, but you lost me there===

Is there anything wrong? Since when do we have a Spanish section?

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

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Not sure, but I think they're talking about all the chapter titles being in gratuitous Italian.

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Actually, check the scan of the [http://img55.imageshack.us/f/009xf5.jpg/ original table of contents]. You'll see that it's actually in said gratuitous Italian. (This may be incorrect, but I doubt it) --[[User:MerrickXasis|MerrickXasis]]

----

Oh that, that's what you guys meant. Yes, it's supposed to be in gratuitous Italian, since the plot setting is in Italy (Before you guys start blaming me for spoiling it, the prologue of Volume 11 will be uploaded in 4 hours.)--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:21, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

==To Aru Majutsu No Index Volume 3==

Can You work on volume 3. Sorry for asking, because I love this arc. --anonymous

the sisters arc is great, but, we have it already in two separate manga and the anime. new content would be my preference. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 15:00, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, we'll see how it goes. Most likely, I'll leave it as training for some new translator. I'm planning to be more of a drill sergeant for these new translators, so, get ready.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I know about the anime and manga but I love to read more. But anyway Thank^^. I will wait for anyone to translate it.

==Consensus: Past or Present?==
'''Please Vote [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 poll]'''
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With six active translators and three editors, this project needs to come to an agreement regarding tense usage. Do we stick to present tense, or do we shift to past tense?--Tactician J 10:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

For me, it's more of past for what just happened and present for what happens during the sequence. I also use a 'present future tense'. Next vote?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm all for present as usual, but as I've said before, I can work with either. I get more attached to present tense stories, anyway. If we do end up agreeing on present tense, we might want to put it somewhere on the main page, and even in commentary tags by the editor list for extra insurance, as odds are potential editors/translators don't check the talk page until someone actually uses it. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

I've only just realised/remembered there's a talk page here ^.^; I'm voting for past tense as that's what I'm used to, and that from what I can gather from the '''official''' Chinese translated Index Novels I have on hand right now they use past tense as well. It'll be easier for me to work in past tense. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:12, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== Volume 14 ==

I know this must be annoying being asked this but could someone work on doing Volume 14?

I don't think anyone is doing this at the moment, volumes 1,SS1,15, & 22 seem to be under active or semi-active translation, but volume 14 is probably coming soon. admitedly, it's just a guess, but as it will be the first volume not in the first season untranslated after SS1 is done, it will probably get done soon. If you can translate, however, feel free to start, no one has registered for it. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

== Churches ==

To the translators and editors: both the anglican church and russian orthodox church exists :[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England],[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church] exist. they are not made up by the author. (technically the anglican church's proper name is the 'Church of England', and is the leader of the 'Anglican Communion'). I'm quite certain also that the Roman Catholic Church exists also, being a lapsed member. The Amakusa Church is made up though: it was named after an island of japan where the heads of executed christians were buried in 1637 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakusa]. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't really know how to explain this, but here's a post by an AS user called Thirdlc, which I find to be very good in explaining it.

"The author uses coined words like 十字教, イギリス清教, ローマ正教 and ロシア成教, instead of actual words like キリスト教 (Christianity), 英国国教会 (Church of England), ローマ・カトリック (Roman Catholic Church), ロシア正教 (Russian Orthodox Church).

I don't like it that those are directly referred, ignoring the author's intention.

Looking at these names, it's possible that the author just wants to make them end with "seikyou" and there is not much meaning in 清.

イギリス清教 (Igirisu [B]seikyou[/B]), ローマ正教 (Roma [B]seikyou[/B]), ロシア成教 (Roshia [B]seikyou[/B]), 天草式十字凄教 (Amakusa-shiki juuji [B]seikyou[/B]) "

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*No hand facepalm...*

Well, to any editor, I'm going to need your help here.

For all the 'Amakusa Catholics' change them into the 'Amakusa-style Church'.

Anyone got any other way to translate the rest, or should we stick to the terms given in volume 7?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah--[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

That could need a [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 guideline discussion]... ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 17:01, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I think this needs to be translated consistently between the volumes. A guideline discussion seems necessary. Just because Vol. 7 was translated first doesn't mean that it's done appropriately (I haven't even looked, so couldn't venture an opinion). Likewise, I would hesitate to buy into a 'canon' translation by a Japanese author - church names tend to be archaic English, for one thing, which is not well covered by Japanese style English education.

My take, now that I see some of the source: 教 seems to be used in the way that we use ''teaching,'' ''rite,''(compare 'rites' of Freemasonry) or even (religious) ''tradition'' in English. So maybe translate イギリス清教 as 'English Puritan rite,' 'English Puritan church,' or 'English Puritan teaching.' By extension, that would lead to 'Roman Orthodox rite'/'Roman Orthodox church' and 'Russian Institutional rite/church' (I'm having a tough time translating the on reading of 成 into something that isn't 'orthodox' in this context.) Likewise, 凄教 translates pretty well as 'cult' for me. Did a little googling and found this page [http://toarumajutsunoindex.wikia.com/wiki/Amakusa-Style_Remix_of_Church] which seems to agree with my 'cult' definition. So the 'Amakusa cult.'

By analogy, It seems obvious that the author is ''suggesting'' real churches, but is very careful not to use their common names in Japanese, I would guess both to avoid angry adherents of the real churches and to help with the alternate universe separation of realities. For example, ロシア成教 is practically synonymous with the meaning of 'Russian Orthodox Church' but just happens to not be the way it is written in Japanese. It seems that we would want a similar obfuscation in the translation for the same reasons. -[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 16:58, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I just want to give my two cents to agree with the character 教 itself translating to cult. It's used quite commonly in Chinese text to such effect. However, I believe the only problem in doing so would be that cults in the English language are usually seen as heretical and some organizations might not fit that light. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:30, 17 November 2010

Well, I should be resting, but since this is important, I'll give an answer.

The so-called canon translations aren't invented by me or Joay or any other translator. When I said Volume 7, I meant the chapter titles of volume 7. The names on the main page, they're canon, we didn't do anything except removing the japanese text. Of course, if we're to go by our own common knowledge, cult would be the better term, but it'll feel a lot less familiar.
 
 

Why are these religions named as 'cults'? As someone who has Chinese as my first language, I haven't came across something like the character '教' being equivalent to that... (Or I just can't remember it - can anyone give some examples?)
But yeah, in canon these Churches are for all intents and purposes 'religions' and not 'cults' as the English speakers understand it.
Maybe we can make some sort of 'need-to-know' translation notes for readers on the Index Novels' main page if this issue becomes a serious one? Just putting it out there the Churches in this universe is not the ones equivalent to Real-Life's ones. In the Official Chinese Translated Volume 1 of TAMNI (pg30, next to a illustration page of Index) I have on hand there's a Note saying all churches mentioned in this series are made-up ones by the author.
Also, I can vouch for the English spellings being correct (I have a hard copy of the Official Chinese translated Index Novel Vol7) given in Vol7 of the Churches are as the person above me has said - so I think what we have right now should stay. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 05:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Have you read the Jing Yong novels? Condor heroes etc? The Ming Cult gets referenced quite often -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 07:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Its Japanese then maybe the meaning of '教' is different between Japanese and Chinese? (Rikaichan says for that "teach", "faith", "doctrine") And if the Churches are realy made up by the author shouldnt then イギリス清教, ローマ正教, ロシア成教 and 天草式十字凄教 be British Puritan, Roman Orthodox, Russian 成(?) and Amakusa(n) 凄 (? unorthodox) faith or doctrine instead of Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox Church? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

No no, Kanji used by Japanese have basically the same meaning in Chinese. In Chinese, that character does indeed mean teach, doctrine, etc. It depends on how it is used. It is really difficult to draw meaning from one character, it depends on how it is used along with other characters before one can drawn meaning from it. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

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I haven't came across those examples you (Snorca) mentioned, but from what I looked up in a Chinese -> English dictionary (Granted, this particular reference book is from 1994 so it's more than a decade old...) the character '教' doesn't have the meaning of cult... and as far as I know from other sources the Chinese term for 'cult' is '邪教', the characters can literally be translated into 'evil religion'. The character '教' alone doesn't mean 'cult' but just 'religion' I think.

But precise meaning/s of the words aside, IMO for all intents and purposes these 'religious organisations', for a lack of better term right now, are similar in structure to real-life churches, even if they're not named the same. These organisations are churches in canon (in terms of influence, history and other such aspects), not cults, and should probably be called as 'churches'. And to prevent mixing up with Real-Life versions maybe some other name can be introduced, but with the word 'church' included? Or like I suggested earlier we can just note the differences between the ToaruVerse Churches and the Real-Life Churches on the TAMNI main page?

That reminds me, the novels calls 'Christianity' (for a lack of better term to describe the religion that is born from the death of the Son of God is called , the name 'Jesus' is never mentioned in the novels and is always refered to as the 'Son of God') the 'Religion of the Cross', ie '十字教', instead of the usual Chinese version '基督教'. Maybe we should change that in our translations as well somehow? --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 21:57, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, as I've said, the word cult will have problems because it has a negative connotation in it based on how the mass media portrays it. Not all cults are evil though, religions would refuse to be classified as a cult, but in essence of the word, they technically are cults. Cults are basically a group with religious beliefs, but are somewhat considered strange. It had been given a negative image due to how most religions (not gonna name the most obvious one) really, really hate how people stray from their practices.

Anyway, the word church doesn't necessarily mean Christianity. It simply means a sanctuary. For example, the infamous cult church I used to live close by: The Church of Scientology. There are many other cults out there with churches but lack popularity.

Of course, how we use these words are up to the editors and translators. I really have no opinion on what we use, just trying to provide some insight as to how those words are technically acceptable. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Because I was the first one to use the word 'cult' I had better clarify what I meant: I used the word 'cult' '''only''' in reference to the kanji combination 凄教. While all of the church/religion names end with kanji that can be pronounced as "seikyou", the actual kanji used are DIFFERENT between the different religions. Only the ''Amakusa seikyou'' has the kanji 凄教 for "seikyou." 凄 translates as 'uncanny, weird, threatening, horrible,' and 教 is the 'teaching, faith, doctrine' kanji we see at the end of all these word. 'Weird/horrible faith' is pretty close to 'cult.'

By this reasoning, '''only''' the Amakusa group would be called a 'cult.' As I wrote above, the others would be something like "Russian Institutional Church," "English Puritan Rite/Church" and "Roman Orthodox Church." --[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 14:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

凄 also means ''wonderful, great, terrific, tremendous, real''. --[[User:El Phoenix|El Phoenix]] 12:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'll make this clear. Here are the original chapter titles of volume 7:

* Prologue: 行動開始　The_Page_is_Opened.
* Chapter 1: 学園都市　Science_Worship.
* Chapter 2: ローマ正教　The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
* Chapter 3: イギリス清教　Anglican_Church.
* Chapter 4: 天草式十字凄教　AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
* Epilogue: 行動終了　The_Page_is_Shut. --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Main Page Format ==
'''Please Vote [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3562 poll]'''
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Okay, let's clear some things up. Do we want to keep the author's bizarre English, underscores and all? I think we should, since he uses symbols in the majority of the titles, and they were originally removed due to someone mistaking it for bad formatting.

And how do we want to format the chapter titles? I was thinking keeping the two titles, separated by two spaces, the first title ending in a period and the second being italicized. I've made my own test version and have viewed it via Show Preview, but because *20 edits later by others*, I never really got the chance to apply it. I can still apply it and all we would have to do is undo the revision if anyone agrees with my thoughts.

So, ideas, opinions? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Before I like to start on this. I'll like to emphasize that I won't tolerate any format changes, none, unless we all agree to it. To both The Shadow , I understand what you're trying to do, but how would you like it if someone is to take help you do something, yet without your permission, and not the way you wanted it? It's the same thing. And to Suzuku, I have to be blunt here, that was really rude. You should have talked it out before taking action. I'll beseech to everyone, not just the two parties involved, that if you want to carry out any format changes like tenses and the like, please discuss it with us first before you do anything.

Now, onto the main point. I feel that either we leave if as it was, or we do the original titles that has the Japanese versions. The translations of the titles may not be universally accepted, unlike the original, so it would be difficult at times to reconcile with the translations, like here:

* Novel Illustrations
* Prologue: Begin Action — The_Page_is_Opened.
* Chapter 1: Academy City — Science_Worship.
* Chapter 2: Roman Orthodox Church — The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
* Chapter 3: British Puritan Church — Anglican_Church.
* Chapter 4: Amakusa-style Church of Distinct Doctrines — AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
* Epilogue: End Action — The_Page_is_Shut.
* Afterword

I'm in favour of the status quo, or even better, if we can leave the original Japanese titles.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I think you guys need to request someone with supervisor rights to become your supervisor and serve as an arbitrator? --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 03:52, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

From my understanding the original novels, for each chapter, have a japanese title and a english title (the one with the underscores). If this is the case, my preference would be for both to be present, as above. Admittedly, it looks pretty odd for volume 7, but it looks like there the difficulty would be differentiating between religion as organization vs. religion as belief system. Also, sorry for contributing to edit war. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

While I'm fine with the either of the older formats (just "Science_Worship./Science Worship.", no translated titles), will the Japanese titles work out since this a translation project? Yeah, 5–10 passersby will understand them, but the majority won't. And the titles look nice on the contents pages because they're neatly separated into columns, whereas since the title translations can get fairly long-winded, it makes it somewhat difficult to make it look consistent and not have a huge amount of unnecessary space between a title. Though we could also romanize them instead, like:

*Prologue: Kōdō Kaishi.  ''The_Page_is_Opened.''

That would make some romanization difficult, though (especially if your knowledge of the language is half-assed like mine), and would slightly be better than just right-out Japanese characters. And Teh Ping, were you in favor for the original English lines with the underscores or the spaces?

And just for a side-note, the Russian project of Index has both titles, though the translator keeps the English titles as-is, most likely because he's a Japanese to Russian translator (must make Kamachi's heavy use of English-oriented furigana a pain).

Also, Larethian, we've gotten quite far without the supposedly necessary supervisor or admin, so why start now? It's actually sort of surprising that Index hasn't had one volunteer yet. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Well, it's good that you guys can arbitrate among yourself. On closer look now, I see that the edit war is caused by casual editors rather than editors of the project. Speaking of the supervisors, I don't even see them around much? I know Vaelis, who has admin rights, is actively lurking.:) --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 06:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I also think that you should keep the two titles: the first title translated into English and the weird English title of the Author. The current version looks ok but you could italicize the second title. — [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 08:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, there's too few translators for us to sort ourselves out -_-, so we didn't need a supervisor up till now. However, if there's a need to have one, seeing how it goes now with all the debates here, I'll volunteer for it.

As for the author's English, I say we keep the underscores. Honestly, I prefer the Japanese titles for the first title instead of the translated ones. Maybe we should get Tact to chip in his thoughts on this, since he's the proofreader here. Will do a poll when I get home, or if we really can't decide, I'll get Herald of Meridian to post a poll on the wikia.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

When I said Japanese, I meant the original hiragana, katakana, kanji and the likes, not romaji.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 10:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I think Teh Ping's suggestion of retaining the original script for the chapter 7 titles makes the most sense-it's exactly what we have chosen to do in translating the chapter titles of the manga (Hoshi no Furu Machi) I'm editing. Yes, keep the underscores and all. I don't really see a problem with using JIS romaji in place of the katakana/hiragana/kanji, but I don't see an advantage to it either.

My concern is the translation of these terms in the body text - it needs to be consistent within and between volumes, and I believe it should closely mirror the meaning of the hiragana/katakana/kanji in the body text, rather than the author's somewhat engrishy attempt at translation himself in the chapter titles. This is with the goal of emulating the Japanese reader's experience as closely as possible. -- [[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 15:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

We have created a [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3562 poll] regarding that in the wiki!

@Teh_Ping I dont think you should translate 教 as church if also 会 (as 教会) would be needed to become the word for church...

Also I would prefer an English translation (since I cant read Kanji (only with Rikachan) nor understand the Romaji transcription, but would also like to know the name of the title) with the original hidden in <nowiki>  </nowiki> and with the "subtitle" in ''italic'' separated with a normal dash (-) and not a "& mdash ;"(—), but without the underlines but rather with spaces (but that is only because I think it looks strange with those underlines). --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 17:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

My view is that keep the Japanese version of the chapter titles and give the English translation of that on the chapter page itself, even if only for the reason it looks better on the contents page that way (among others). As for the underscores and other things in the author's English, I suggest we keep it the same as how it is shown - if necessary change it on the chapter page, but leave it as it is on the main page. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 21:36, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

What would you think if it was formated like that:
----
===Example===
'''<nowiki>===Volume 3===</nowiki>'''
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Illustrations|Novel Illustrations]]
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Prologue|Prologue: Radio Noise]]
** Level2
*Chapter 1: Imagine Breaker
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Chapter1|Level0(and_More)]]
* Radio Noise
**Level2(Product_Model)

----
(Prologue example 1; Chap 1 example 2; Chap 2 example 3 - but I think "chapter" should be kept) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Beyond the inconsistent link locations, I'm not in favor of having each chapter split up over two lines, it seems that it could be confusing, especially to people new to the site, and it doesn't look as nice to me. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

As said that are three different examples. The Prologue is example 1, chapter 1 is example 2 and chapter 2 is example 3 - its just another suggestion instead of the long chapter titles in one line... Of those examples I would prefer example 2, which would mostly be like its done with some MariMite chapters. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 06:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, building off of Darklor's example, here's what the idea I suggested in the forums would look like:
----
===Example 2===
'''<nowiki>===Volume 1===</nowiki>'''
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Illustrations|Novel Illustrations]]
*'''Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy/幻想殺しの少年のお話'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Prologue|The_Imagine-Breaker.]]
*'''Chapter 1: The Magician Lands in the Town/魔術師は塔に降り立つ'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 1|FAIR,_Occasionally_GIRL.]]
*'''Chapter 2: The Conjurer Bestows Demise/奇術師は終焉を与える'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 2|The_7th-Edge.]]
*'''Chapter 3: The Grimoire Peacefully Smiles/魔道書は静かに微笑む'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 3|Forget_me_not.]]
*'''Chapter 4: The Retiring Magician Chooses the End/退魔師は終わりを選ぶ'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 4|(N)Ever_Say_Good_bye.]]
*'''Epilogue: The Conclusion of the Index of Prohibited Books Girl/禁書目録の少女の結末'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Epilogue|Index-Librorum-Prohibitorum.]]

----
So what does everyone think? It's certainly unique, but considering the chapter title scheme of the Index novel is unique, it fits. ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks great: but would it possibly be better to have whitespace on both sides of the '/' mark? Like:

*'''Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy / 幻想殺しの少年のお話'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Prologue|The_Imagine-Breaker.]]

Just a minor suggestion. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 01:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

It's not a noticeable change, but I don't mind. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

First off I'd like to apologize to Teh Ping and everyone else. Like you said it probably would have been better to start off this discussion before sparking the whole little edit war that went on. In regards to the discussion itself I think your suggestion looks rather nice Suzuku, especially with Sagantsu's minor tweak. Maybe it would also be good to add a little note somewhere on the main page explaining how Kamachi formats the chapter titles so people can see where each part comes from. [[User:The Shadow|The Shadow]] 04:58, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Holy canoli at these great walls of text! In any case, I quite like Suzuku's suggestion (with Saganatsu's addendum). --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==Awards==
2011 is correct? Because at the moment its only 2010... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's correct, as the listing is for the entire year of 2011, which is why the polling is done at the end of 2010. ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

While we're on it, I tweaked the format for the award section a bit. Any objections/complaints? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Short Synopsis==
I replaced it with an edited version of the wiki's. Yes, I realize the old one was also just a more cut up version of the wiki's, but the English wasn't as well worded and it looked a bit sparse. Objections? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Header==
So I added one. Thoughts? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't see any problems, and no objections to one personally. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 01:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I would say bold would be better for the first "To Aru Majutsu no Index". --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 04:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I tried that, but it came off looking weird, so I stuck with italics. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:38, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

== chapter title Vol2 Ch3 ==

I don't think that the chapter title for Volume 2 Chapter 3 is correct: it's an exact copy of Volume 1 Chapter 3, in both the english and translated japanese. could someone check this? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:30, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

No, it's correct. The chapter title uses the exact same Kanji and English title as the title of Volume 1 Chapter 3. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

=="To Aru" Majutsu no Index==
Wikipedia recently agreed to have the wiki page on this series be titled "Toaru Majutsu no Index". Should we follow their decision? --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

would be alot of work: main page, registration page, one formatting page, upto 10 pages per volume (4 chapters, one epilogue, one war report, one declaration of..., an afterword, a full text page, and a illustrations page)= upper limit of 243 pages needing moving, updating the links on all of them, updating the links on the sidebar... . If someone is willing to do all that, I'm all for it. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 00:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't particularly mind either way, though I do think Toaru is the correct version myself. I don't know how formatting links work for the server admin, so it might be easier to just do it next the B-T server randomly goes down. Again. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

== Underscores ==

Was there a decision or two I missed somewhere? why did [[User:Kraft|Kraft]] take out all the underscores on the chapter titles? was under impression that they were to be left in. also, why added the periods at the end? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 21:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

From the looks of it, Kraft has been re-editing the titles applying punctuation rules and probably assumed the underscores were a formatting issue without knowing that the current format was agreed upon by the editors and supervisors of the project (I don't think they realized that was how it was meant to be). It would be nice if the entire series could be locked only to have edits approved by a supervisor or editor to prevent drive-by editing on a project of such a large scale. --[[User:Lighthalzen|Lighthalzen]] 22:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Dunno, but the ending period on the translated line helps distinguish the two titles. And I see he did it on the chapter pages themselves, but the decision was for the main page itself. The problem with the supervisor–editor thing is, we don't have a specific supervisor for the Index project, nor do any of them seem to frequent enough for all the updates we make to the main page (the percentage updates). We also don't have an editor with actual editor rights anyway (though I wish Tact would frequent more to get it). Besides, the translators would need the similar abilities just to create a page. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

==Inserting hidden page numbers into the text?==
Is it possible for the translators to mark where the pages start and end? That would enable me to look up the original lines more easily, and I'd like to try making some nice-looking PDFs down the road... --Tactician J 14:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I could go through eventually and help with that if I stop being lazy and when the tense issue is resolved. Anyway, I did a small preview of how it would look on parts 9–10 of volume 16's chapter 1. Basically, lines can be cut off randomly in the middle of the sentence (or words for that matter), so don't feel too reliant on the original formatting. Not to mention that every other page has the two titles for the chapter. And out of curiosity, how would you do the illustrations? Some colored ones have three-page-spreads and seeing an illustration after the part it happens in the text just isn't the same as seeing it as you turn the page, so would you use a two-page style, two-pages for just illustrations with the text page, or just one page at a time? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] 14:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Text pages get single pages, but two-/three-page illustration spreads will be fused together, more or less. --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

==Thought processes==
Just wondering if I am the only one that's slightly uncomfortable with how thoughts are differentiated from the rest of the text in different ways. It seems that the most common methods of indicating thoughts are either in (parenthesis), ''italics'', or ''(italics and parenthesis)''. Perhaps we can come to some kind of a standard for this... or is there a difference as to how certain thought processes are? (I don't have access to the Japanese text or cultural knowledge to know...) -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

In the original texts, most thoughts are in parentheses but some also aren't, just like how most spoken dialogue is in quotes but some isn't. English novels also do it (the quoteless dialogues, though thoughts don't have to be emphasized with italics or parentheses), but I think it's more of a slight difference to not feel so abusive with them during dialogue/thought scenes. The italics is just something we started doing (I don't remember why?) and aren't in the original format. I don't think Japanese use italics at all, but they do have a way to emphasize certain parts of a line without just bolding it, though I forget what it's called. If you have any lines in mind that you'd like to me to look up and post as examples, go ahead, though it'll be in Japanese. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Occassionally some do use bold, but most of the time, most novels use 『』 or 【】 parentheses for emphasis. Italics look intuitive for monologue (and yes the Japanese don't use them). I've used it right from the start in LOLH, because I saw it in Toradora. Some CSR pages I saw use parentheses, but '''Italics''' just feel right to me. I've not read enough Index to know how the author presents thoughts. But based on your description, my guess is those in parentheses are First-Person monologue, while those that aren't are narrator-reported thoughts. --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 04:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow, never thought they might be monologues. I normally associate monologues with just quotation marks since they're said aloud. Now I'm even more confused as to what to do/how to read, haha. --[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 06:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

== british vs american english ==

which english should we use: part of the project is in american english and part in british. It's not really that important to me which, but we should probably settle on one or the other. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 20:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

british will be better because they don`t use america--[[User:Cognitio|Cognitio]]

Do you mean to say that the story has English characters but no (few?) American characters? That makes some sense.--[[User:CarVac|CarVac]] 22:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

American English. See the [[Format_guideline#Spelling_and_Grammar|Format guideline]]. [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 13:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

That standard was established before we had multiple projects, and was left in. given that it was written for when we only had one project, should it be up to each project to decide which version?
the original line was this:
:* '''Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors & Readers the standard spelling lexicon for this project will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary]''' --13:18, 26 April 2006 by [[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]]

the current version in place is
:Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors and Readers, the standard spelling lexicon for this Wiki will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary] --5:37, 16 March 2007 by [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]]

which was changed as part of the original update altering the format page from a Haruhi only version to a version for all projects.

also, [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] stopped editing a year before this project was created: [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index&dir=prev&action=history here] vs [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Smidge204 here]. and thus the format page, in it's current form, would not have considered a project that might have reason to use british english.

As the current text came about due to a change regarding the style of the formatting page, and not as an actual policy decision, and as the party who made the original style decision is no longer on the wiki to ask, I argue that the statement currently on the format page can be overridden by the people working on a particular project, especially if there is reason beyond personal preference, as has been argued above.

thus we come back to the question: which would the contributors prefer for this project? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah stop arguing. As the one responsible for all of these, I'll take the charges (my job anyway, haven't updated the Supervisor tag)

I have already PMed Big Boss regarding this, so if he doesn't have any personal preference regarding this, I will make the decision.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

To quote the PM:

[quote="thelastguardian"]Well, if they are from England, of course they speak British English :p . Seems perfectly logical to me.[/quote]

There you have it. I'm going to introduce a new set of guidelines soon.

I'd let the England-based characters speak British English, but what about the narration? --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't like the idea of switching languages here and there so easily, feels weird to me because it's like the characters are in a different realm from the readers.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

== Dragon ==

who is this dragon in vol 15?

see volume 19 --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 07:08, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

== who's gonna translte volume 15 and 19? ==

can someone translate all of volume 15 and 19? the parts about shiage are just epic.

- Give it some time. JS06 is translating SS1. Volume 15 hasn't been translated dedicated-ly since December and Vol 19 was mostly translated by Flare in December-who is less active now. Volume 15 has a higher chance of being translated soon after SS1 is completed.

Well, I'm not letting anyone translate 15 until Joay himself says that he will allow others to take over.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:45, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

+ That's fine. Can you ask Joay if it is ok for others to take over vol 15?

Sounds like you are under the assumption that someone would do it if no Joay doesn't they might work the earlier novels... On a side note can someone post on the boards that activation email are down. I can't get the activation email and I can't post telling someone to look into that. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] 01:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Way ahead of you, check js06's talk page.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 02:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

== volume 23 and 24 ==

i heard its out already, volume 23 and 24. are you guys going to translate them?

Volume 23 will be called New Testament Volume 1. As for whether we will be translating it, you can bet on it once we get resources.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

==And Misaka Mikoto?==
Looks like the novel have the "New testament" series and you already put a Spoier about Touma (Dead), Accelerator and Shiage, but WHAT HAPPENED TO MISAKA? (and index but I relly do not care too much).

== SS Volume 2? ==

Just wondering: where in the timeline does SS Volume 2 take place? On the main page it's shown between Volumes 16 and 17, but on the Registration page it's shown between Volumes 19 and 20.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 00:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

== alternative language? ==

according to Category:Alternative Languages, british english is an alternative language. does this mean this project is, or only that projects with a british english variant are alternative? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 19:28, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

== Terminology ==

In Volume 14 Chapter 3 Part 4, Tatemiya Saiji is referred to as "Substitute Pope". He was previously referred to in Volumes 7 and 11 as "substitute Supreme Pontiff" (likewise, Kanzaki Kaori is referred to as "Supreme Pontiff"). If the Japanese writing for these terms is the same in each instance, then it would be best to pick a standard translation and use that.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 05:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit:
Also "Acqua of the Back" (Volume 14 Epilogue) versus "Acqua of the Rear".

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 06:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

It's Supreme Pontiff and Acqua of the Back, according to the TamnI wiki. We follow their spellings and terminology, as far as I know. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, alright then. I've been avoiding looking at the wiki because every time I look at it, I accidentally read another spoiler.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 04:13, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

==New Testament: Toaru Majutsu no Index or Toaru Majutsu no Index: New Testament?==

Just to make sure we have a set standard for how the title should be, should we refer to the new series with NT in front of the title or after? Since Kamachi has "Shinyaku" in front of "Toaru Majutsu no Index", I'm inclined to believe that it's his intention to have the series referred to with New Testament at the front of the title. Also, do really need to have 'NT' in front of the volumes? I don't think it's necessary personally. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 22:27, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

User talk:Js06

2011-03-09T13:09:09Z

Stiyl: Organize page into sections, added a comment and a question

== Welcome! ==

Hello Js, thank you for helping out translating the series. Hope to see more from you. --[[User:Arkblazer|Arkblazer]] 13:21, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for translating the series, definitely one of the best out there. Good to see more translators(good ones) coming into the project. -- [[User:186.204.210.151|186.204.210.151]] 11:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Heya, Js06. Thank you for continuing translating Vol. 14, hoping that you'll finish it til' the end. Thank you very much~ --[[User:80.2.33.185|80.2.33.185]] 10:37, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for continuing on 14 as well. Will you be moving onto the next volume to finish it up as well?

--[[User:Shido|Shido]] 15:37, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

After 14, I'll be translating SS1. --[[User:Js06|Js06]] 19:57, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Joay has given the green light for you to continue with 15, if you want to.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 10:04, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

== Square Brackts for [GROUP]? ==
Hey Js06. I've been editing the previously-translated parts of Volume 15, and I was wondering: Joay left a lot of terms in brackets like [GROUP] and the like. Should I just remove all of those? Also, if you can, please check some sentences that I've commented on to make sure they stay close enough to the original: I was kinda grasping at straws when trying to make them make sense in English. [[User:CarVac|CarVac]] 21:49, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

The brackets around GROUP were probably meant to emulate the Japanese-style quotation marks 『』 used in the novels, but they aren't really necessary. The Japanese like to put things in quotation marks to distinguish them in the same way capitalizing the word is sometimes used in English (e.g. Esper names like Meltdowner and AIM Stalker are put in quotes in the novels.) I used to puts things in quotes excessively in my translations because I was copying the Japanese usage, but I stopped recently.
I'll look over the changes you mentioned later today. Thanks for your work. --[[User:Js06|Js06]] 22:23, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

== SS2? ==
Hey JS06, I know you can translate whatever you want, but why did u "jump" to SS2 so suddenly?Just curiosity. Thanks in advance. --[[User:186.204.5.233|186.204.5.233]] 14:21, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

What do you mean? All that isn't done between 15 and SS2 is 16's epilogue which someone else is working on. --[[User:Js06|Js06]] 20:04, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

lol, that's true, haha. I thought I saw 17 and 18 before it. Must be crazy. --[[User:186.204.5.233|186.204.5.233]] 12:29, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll finish where it left off, just continue on with the later volumes.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 10:47, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== Present Tenses vs. Past Tense? ==
Looking at your SS2 translations, I realized that you're doing them in past tense as opposed to present tense like you use in the other novels. Is the original material in past tense, or did you decide to start using more past tense? I do understand that the stories seem to have occurred before volume 16; is that why they're in past tense? It sounds more natural this way, but do we need to keep consistency with the other novels? [[User:CarVac|CarVac]] 16:51, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

What? I've always used the past tense in my translations here. --[[User:Js06|Js06]] 17:09, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Whoops! Sorry. I've been editing the other portions of volume 15 too long, and they're all blurring together in my head. Never mind then. I guess I should put those in past tense to match? (argh; so much work!) [[User:CarVac|CarVac]] 17:18, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I thought that we were to aim for present tense usage and only use past tense where necessary? ([[To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Names_and_Terminology_Guideline#Narrative_Tenses]])

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 13:09, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

== Talk page cleanup ==
Js06,

I've restored a deleted message on your talk page (from 186.204.5.233) to make sense of that conversation. I've also added some headings. I hope that you don't mind the intrusion. Feel free to undo any of it if you like.

Thank you for all of your hard work translating!

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 13:09, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Toaru Majutsu no Index

2011-03-06T06:22:32Z

Stiyl: /* Terminology */ "Epiloge" to "Epilogue" >.<

[http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1697525#post1697525 Illustration overview] reminder found in the project forum...

== How I enlist ? ==

I done reading to aru majutsu no index chapter 9. So i want to post it in here.
Is it possible? How can I post it anyway? Japanese to Indonesia. japanese to englist. - ([[User:Kili|Kili]])

Well, you could really just post it unless you want specific clearance from the moderators at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2148&start=195 project forum]. For the Indonesian one, you should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Indonesian" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Repose

actuality I already completed translate english. Not so hard to make it to indonesia. but if I done where and how post it ? - ([[User:Kili|Kili]])

The Indonesian version? For that you have to create the Alternate Language Project similar to other Alternate Language Projects with the complete translation of the Project Page (as a naming example: <nowiki>[[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]]</nowiki> ([[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]])), Registration Page, a thread in the Alternate Language Subforum in the Baka-Tsuki Forum and at least one translated Chapter to get the approval to continue the project. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 23:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

it so hard for to made but I will keep trying. I need time to study about it.

am i wrong ?

I've just joined up, and have registered on the TAMNI register page, is that good enough? I can't seem to get into the forum link. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Should be just fine, as I assume you'll be translating to English like the other things you've done. I suppose you don't need the forum unless you want to set up a project page up or want to discuss translation terms, but still, not sure why the links don't work for you. --[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

==Chapter 2: Doubt_Lovers.==
The link refer to "http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume5_'''Chapter1'''" So I think of them is wrong?
--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 12:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks EnigmaticRepose for fixing it!--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 00:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

==What the shit.==
Why would a translation project start at volume 12 instead of volume 1? Imagine watching the Lord of the Rings movie series for the first time in your life...except instead of watching it starting from the first movie, you skip to the middle of the 3rd movie during the seige of Gondor. And as you sit through the movie you keep going "Oh this sword guy is kinda cool whats his name? And who is this Sauron guy?".

you, whoever you are, are being horrendously rude and ungrateful for the fact that the translators (you seem pointed at [[user:Joay|Joay]] in particular) not only translate these novels, they do it for free. Besides that, volumes 1 through 6 are covered by the anime, and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index_light_novels] has synopses of all the novels. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Also since the translators have the power, they can decide what they like to translate, so if you could translate as well you could start with volume 1 if you like it... or with chapter x in volume y ;) So if you dont cant and dont like it you dont have to read it. I am gratful for that what we have, so should you too if you like to read more of those otherwise unobtainable unreadable volumes. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 08:34, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

hmm, now that volume 7 and 9 are translated and volume 10 is being translated, i'd like to ask if there is a specific reason that volume 8 was skipped.? It doesn't really matter though, since i was just wondering if maybe the story in 8 takes place in a different time than 7->9. other than that, i'm fine with waiting, since you're all (yeah, you translators ^_^ ) doing a fantastic job at translating this so far. keep up the good work.
oh yeah, and... Ganbare!--[[User:AzraRillian|-AzraRillian - Transcend The Sin - "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body." C.S. Lewis]] 03:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

===Took me five months to even notice this, sorry...===

The reason why I did Volumes 9 and 10 before volume 8 was basically because of a request (the first guy who PMed me when I worked on this project asked me whether I can do Volume 9 first. So, sorry...?

And to the guy who has been complaining about Volume 1 not being translated first, well, no point talking about it now when out of a sudden, there are three guys working on volume 1 now (I'm really, really glad to have other people share the workload). Like what [[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] said, the anime has pretty much covered most of the important aspects, and since there's a sizeable fandom of it that can provide all sorts of information, you're not really in the dark regarding what has happened. The 'Lord of the Rings' idea doesn't really work since you would have most likely gone about trying to find out what's going on in order to answer the question of 'what's going on?' Or did you not even bother looking for it?

Well, instead of complaining, you might as well do something about it if you can. Orders are nothing if the actions are not done, you know. We're not entitled to do this for you, we're not even paid to do this. We're doing this only because we want to. We translators here are like Kamijo Touma, we don't have a reason to do things, we just do it.

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

== What tense to use? ==

So, after reading some chapters of the seventh volume I would like to ask a question. What tense would you use in descriptions? Right now I’m doing some edits on the translated texts but there is always this one thing I’m tripping over. In this volume, and most likely also in the others, we have a third person narrator. In this case you would normally write the descriptions or narrations in the past tense, right? That’s what I would do at least and is commonly done in the most English novels. But as it is, there are some differences in the Asian and the English writing and that includes the used tenses. Because of these differences the translator decided to use the present tense in the above-named cases (most of the time at least). Of course, this isn’t a mistake, but I often feel like it would be one. Perhaps I’m just too used reading the past tense in descriptions but to me, with some exceptions, it often feels awkward when I read some of them in present tense. I would like to get some more opinions on this matter. Is it just me who has this problem or do you think the same as me? [[user:AJS90|AJS90]] 21 March 2010

I've really just been using present tense for everything, which I based off of how the translators worded it. It's a bit weird for the narrator to do so, but eh, I'm used to it already. ...On a side note, it's nice not being the only editor anymore. ~EnigmaticRepose

Yeah, I've been using present tense for my edits, too- but only because there might be a convention in light novels regarding it that I'm unaware of. Better safe than sorry, you know? I MIGHT try a past-tense sweep edit for second opinions, but only after I'm done with my ongoing ones.--Tactician J 03:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== About translating. ==

well to be honest, i dont know all that much japanese so i cant really translate, i however have atlas, so the question is can i use atlas as a raw draft and then start editing from there?

another dumb question i have is if there's a reason why the novels are listed only up to volume 13? because i can find them easily on hongfire or emule if anyone needs them.

No, atlas will just lead to shit translations and cause more trouble then what's it worth - response

Unfortunately, translation software will normally make it harder for anyone to translate. You can use it from time to time to check some harder words, but the best is if you have knowledge of Japanese, Chinese, or Korean (Correct me on this one if I'm wrong.) and translate it manually, since it's hard for anyone to start working on it if they don't know what the text is about in the first place. ~Teh Ping

You could try it, but I would wonder and call you very lucky if the outcome isnt gibberish --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:23, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== I need illustrations for Volume 10 ==

Exactly what's written on it. Would the uploader kindly upload the illustrations of the other volumes? Many thanks in advance.~Teh Ping

would it be enough a link of megaupload volumes 1-16 and with the illustration? anyway heres the link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2AS0PZD7
-ark

== Pic translation ==
Ah, could someone translate the pics too, if there is on them something to translate, please? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 05:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Most the pictures just have quotes from the novel, with additional tiny descriptions, like 'Academy City Tokiwadai Student' or 'English Purist "Church of Necessary Evil (Necessarius)' and the like, so you aren't missing much. It's really just a fit it in the context after you read it, as they're supposed to be teasers for the story anyway (which is why they're placed in the beginning).

Hm, I thought it would be nice - like we have it for Sword Art Online especially since we dont have translations for all volumes, so some teasers would be nice ;). Have meant only pics like those: [[:Image:Index v01 002-003.jpg|Image 1]]; [[:Image:Index v01 004-005.jpg|Image 2]]; [[:Image:Index v01 006-007.jpg|Image 3]] --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 10:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

== Just a slight concern. ==

As Joay and I are busy with our own stuff, I suppose that there should be some sort of a Project Supervisor around to keep check of certain stuff. There will be updates in the future, as Twi will continue to translate this series (hopefully), but I hope that there's someone to keep this series in check, since it's no longer a 'small' project anymore (I guess, since YMMV). ~Teh Ping

== Spanish section request ==

I would like to start a spanish section for the novels.--[[Special:Contributions/190.41.2.140|190.41.2.140]] 22:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

You should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Spanish" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up. Registering may also be a good idea. An Indonesian one was also set up, so you could use that as a reference. --EnigmaticRepose

== I'll try to translate a bit ==

Currently my japanese is iffy at best, but as i'm studying it might as well give it a shot.I'll try to pick up the 1st chapter of volume one (no one's doing it right?). I'm asking here first as well, i don't know if i can manage it yet.
If i manage to somehow not embarrass myself too much doing that i'll register, and work on the rest of the volume.
Again, i can't be sure i'll manage it so... best try it out first then see.--[[User:AADragon|AADragon]] 16:35, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

No one would say something against it, just feel free to ge ahead, but best would be to register the chapter before, even if it is not very probable that some other translator would translate it anytime soon, but wonder happens sometime, so just to be safe ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Thanks for your work!!==
Glad to see translated this novel series by Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for working so hard and fast.
At this point, I can say that the translators will surpass Index II(by JCStaff) in covering the novels :)

another fan of Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for all of the great work ^^)/

== Translations? ==

I'm new here, and I want to translate some stuff.
I was reading the chinese version and randomly decided to translate V1C4 from Chinese to English.

Do I need some sort of clearance? Or can I just go ahead and upload my stuff (especially since my translation quality is most definitely sub-par)?

===Go ahead and just upload it===

The editors will be helping out with the language. I'll also help you proofread it if you want.

Over here, there's no need for any bureaucratic red tape. Any translator can just upload their stuff here, so you can just upload it.

EDIT: Still having a bit of trouble with the formatting, garr...

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:51, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Some Question ==

Er.... So, I already translated about three chapter and half from the 2nd Volume...
and the question is... How do I upload it? Any clues?

===Here's what you need===

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Format_guideline#Wiki_Editing_Tips

1. First, go to the volume that you want to upload.

2. Do you see the edit button on the top right hand corner? Click it.

3. Look at the 'Internal link' section, that is how you're going to add hyperlinks. (You can look at the other volumes for reference)

4. If you did it right, the words should be in red, click on it.

5. Now, you should be in a new page. Click on the 'create' button at the top.

6. Upload the text that you have already translated. (Make sure to press 'enter' once after every paragraph so that it's easier to
read.)

7. Next, the headings. At the wiki editing tips page, look at the 'headings' section (well, duh).

8. If you see the format used on all B-T texts, you'll probably get an idea of how to do it. (Just copy what they do.)

9. For pictures, it's under 'thumbnail image', the 'picture' would be from the illustrations of the volume that's available here. If I want a picture from say 'Volume 1 page 031', the format would be <nowiki>[[Image:Index_v01_031.jpg|thumb]]</nowiki>

10. For a footer, just go to any completed chapter here, copy the scripts for the footer, and make the necessary edits.

If you need any more help, you can pm me.

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I wonder what happened with this translator and translation... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

----

==VOLUME 11==

english Volume 11 has been sabed over by the spanish version. Any chance of recovery?

===Erm, excuse me, but you lost me there===

Is there anything wrong? Since when do we have a Spanish section?

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

----
Not sure, but I think they're talking about all the chapter titles being in gratuitous Italian.

----
Actually, check the scan of the [http://img55.imageshack.us/f/009xf5.jpg/ original table of contents]. You'll see that it's actually in said gratuitous Italian. (This may be incorrect, but I doubt it) --[[User:MerrickXasis|MerrickXasis]]

----

Oh that, that's what you guys meant. Yes, it's supposed to be in gratuitous Italian, since the plot setting is in Italy (Before you guys start blaming me for spoiling it, the prologue of Volume 11 will be uploaded in 4 hours.)--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:21, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

==To Aru Majutsu No Index Volume 3==

Can You work on volume 3. Sorry for asking, because I love this arc. --anonymous

the sisters arc is great, but, we have it already in two separate manga and the anime. new content would be my preference. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 15:00, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, we'll see how it goes. Most likely, I'll leave it as training for some new translator. I'm planning to be more of a drill sergeant for these new translators, so, get ready.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I know about the anime and manga but I love to read more. But anyway Thank^^. I will wait for anyone to translate it.

==Consensus: Past or Present?==
'''Please Vote [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 poll]'''
----
With six active translators and three editors, this project needs to come to an agreement regarding tense usage. Do we stick to present tense, or do we shift to past tense?--Tactician J 10:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

For me, it's more of past for what just happened and present for what happens during the sequence. I also use a 'present future tense'. Next vote?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm all for present as usual, but as I've said before, I can work with either. I get more attached to present tense stories, anyway. If we do end up agreeing on present tense, we might want to put it somewhere on the main page, and even in commentary tags by the editor list for extra insurance, as odds are potential editors/translators don't check the talk page until someone actually uses it. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

I've only just realised/remembered there's a talk page here ^.^; I'm voting for past tense as that's what I'm used to, and that from what I can gather from the '''official''' Chinese translated Index Novels I have on hand right now they use past tense as well. It'll be easier for me to work in past tense. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:12, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== Volume 14 ==

I know this must be annoying being asked this but could someone work on doing Volume 14?

I don't think anyone is doing this at the moment, volumes 1,SS1,15, & 22 seem to be under active or semi-active translation, but volume 14 is probably coming soon. admitedly, it's just a guess, but as it will be the first volume not in the first season untranslated after SS1 is done, it will probably get done soon. If you can translate, however, feel free to start, no one has registered for it. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

== Churches ==

To the translators and editors: both the anglican church and russian orthodox church exists :[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England],[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church] exist. they are not made up by the author. (technically the anglican church's proper name is the 'Church of England', and is the leader of the 'Anglican Communion'). I'm quite certain also that the Roman Catholic Church exists also, being a lapsed member. The Amakusa Church is made up though: it was named after an island of japan where the heads of executed christians were buried in 1637 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakusa]. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't really know how to explain this, but here's a post by an AS user called Thirdlc, which I find to be very good in explaining it.

"The author uses coined words like 十字教, イギリス清教, ローマ正教 and ロシア成教, instead of actual words like キリスト教 (Christianity), 英国国教会 (Church of England), ローマ・カトリック (Roman Catholic Church), ロシア正教 (Russian Orthodox Church).

I don't like it that those are directly referred, ignoring the author's intention.

Looking at these names, it's possible that the author just wants to make them end with "seikyou" and there is not much meaning in 清.

イギリス清教 (Igirisu [B]seikyou[/B]), ローマ正教 (Roma [B]seikyou[/B]), ロシア成教 (Roshia [B]seikyou[/B]), 天草式十字凄教 (Amakusa-shiki juuji [B]seikyou[/B]) "

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*No hand facepalm...*

Well, to any editor, I'm going to need your help here.

For all the 'Amakusa Catholics' change them into the 'Amakusa-style Church'.

Anyone got any other way to translate the rest, or should we stick to the terms given in volume 7?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah--[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

That could need a [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 guideline discussion]... ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 17:01, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I think this needs to be translated consistently between the volumes. A guideline discussion seems necessary. Just because Vol. 7 was translated first doesn't mean that it's done appropriately (I haven't even looked, so couldn't venture an opinion). Likewise, I would hesitate to buy into a 'canon' translation by a Japanese author - church names tend to be archaic English, for one thing, which is not well covered by Japanese style English education.

My take, now that I see some of the source: 教 seems to be used in the way that we use ''teaching,'' ''rite,''(compare 'rites' of Freemasonry) or even (religious) ''tradition'' in English. So maybe translate イギリス清教 as 'English Puritan rite,' 'English Puritan church,' or 'English Puritan teaching.' By extension, that would lead to 'Roman Orthodox rite'/'Roman Orthodox church' and 'Russian Institutional rite/church' (I'm having a tough time translating the on reading of 成 into something that isn't 'orthodox' in this context.) Likewise, 凄教 translates pretty well as 'cult' for me. Did a little googling and found this page [http://toarumajutsunoindex.wikia.com/wiki/Amakusa-Style_Remix_of_Church] which seems to agree with my 'cult' definition. So the 'Amakusa cult.'

By analogy, It seems obvious that the author is ''suggesting'' real churches, but is very careful not to use their common names in Japanese, I would guess both to avoid angry adherents of the real churches and to help with the alternate universe separation of realities. For example, ロシア成教 is practically synonymous with the meaning of 'Russian Orthodox Church' but just happens to not be the way it is written in Japanese. It seems that we would want a similar obfuscation in the translation for the same reasons. -[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 16:58, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I just want to give my two cents to agree with the character 教 itself translating to cult. It's used quite commonly in Chinese text to such effect. However, I believe the only problem in doing so would be that cults in the English language are usually seen as heretical and some organizations might not fit that light. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:30, 17 November 2010

Well, I should be resting, but since this is important, I'll give an answer.

The so-called canon translations aren't invented by me or Joay or any other translator. When I said Volume 7, I meant the chapter titles of volume 7. The names on the main page, they're canon, we didn't do anything except removing the japanese text. Of course, if we're to go by our own common knowledge, cult would be the better term, but it'll feel a lot less familiar.
 
 

Why are these religions named as 'cults'? As someone who has Chinese as my first language, I haven't came across something like the character '教' being equivalent to that... (Or I just can't remember it - can anyone give some examples?)
But yeah, in canon these Churches are for all intents and purposes 'religions' and not 'cults' as the English speakers understand it.
Maybe we can make some sort of 'need-to-know' translation notes for readers on the Index Novels' main page if this issue becomes a serious one? Just putting it out there the Churches in this universe is not the ones equivalent to Real-Life's ones. In the Official Chinese Translated Volume 1 of TAMNI (pg30, next to a illustration page of Index) I have on hand there's a Note saying all churches mentioned in this series are made-up ones by the author.
Also, I can vouch for the English spellings being correct (I have a hard copy of the Official Chinese translated Index Novel Vol7) given in Vol7 of the Churches are as the person above me has said - so I think what we have right now should stay. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 05:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Have you read the Jing Yong novels? Condor heroes etc? The Ming Cult gets referenced quite often -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 07:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Its Japanese then maybe the meaning of '教' is different between Japanese and Chinese? (Rikaichan says for that "teach", "faith", "doctrine") And if the Churches are realy made up by the author shouldnt then イギリス清教, ローマ正教, ロシア成教 and 天草式十字凄教 be British Puritan, Roman Orthodox, Russian 成(?) and Amakusa(n) 凄 (? unorthodox) faith or doctrine instead of Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox Church? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

No no, Kanji used by Japanese have basically the same meaning in Chinese. In Chinese, that character does indeed mean teach, doctrine, etc. It depends on how it is used. It is really difficult to draw meaning from one character, it depends on how it is used along with other characters before one can drawn meaning from it. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

---

I haven't came across those examples you (Snorca) mentioned, but from what I looked up in a Chinese -> English dictionary (Granted, this particular reference book is from 1994 so it's more than a decade old...) the character '教' doesn't have the meaning of cult... and as far as I know from other sources the Chinese term for 'cult' is '邪教', the characters can literally be translated into 'evil religion'. The character '教' alone doesn't mean 'cult' but just 'religion' I think.

But precise meaning/s of the words aside, IMO for all intents and purposes these 'religious organisations', for a lack of better term right now, are similar in structure to real-life churches, even if they're not named the same. These organisations are churches in canon (in terms of influence, history and other such aspects), not cults, and should probably be called as 'churches'. And to prevent mixing up with Real-Life versions maybe some other name can be introduced, but with the word 'church' included? Or like I suggested earlier we can just note the differences between the ToaruVerse Churches and the Real-Life Churches on the TAMNI main page?

That reminds me, the novels calls 'Christianity' (for a lack of better term to describe the religion that is born from the death of the Son of God is called , the name 'Jesus' is never mentioned in the novels and is always refered to as the 'Son of God') the 'Religion of the Cross', ie '十字教', instead of the usual Chinese version '基督教'. Maybe we should change that in our translations as well somehow? --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 21:57, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, as I've said, the word cult will have problems because it has a negative connotation in it based on how the mass media portrays it. Not all cults are evil though, religions would refuse to be classified as a cult, but in essence of the word, they technically are cults. Cults are basically a group with religious beliefs, but are somewhat considered strange. It had been given a negative image due to how most religions (not gonna name the most obvious one) really, really hate how people stray from their practices.

Anyway, the word church doesn't necessarily mean Christianity. It simply means a sanctuary. For example, the infamous cult church I used to live close by: The Church of Scientology. There are many other cults out there with churches but lack popularity.

Of course, how we use these words are up to the editors and translators. I really have no opinion on what we use, just trying to provide some insight as to how those words are technically acceptable. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Because I was the first one to use the word 'cult' I had better clarify what I meant: I used the word 'cult' '''only''' in reference to the kanji combination 凄教. While all of the church/religion names end with kanji that can be pronounced as "seikyou", the actual kanji used are DIFFERENT between the different religions. Only the ''Amakusa seikyou'' has the kanji 凄教 for "seikyou." 凄 translates as 'uncanny, weird, threatening, horrible,' and 教 is the 'teaching, faith, doctrine' kanji we see at the end of all these word. 'Weird/horrible faith' is pretty close to 'cult.'

By this reasoning, '''only''' the Amakusa group would be called a 'cult.' As I wrote above, the others would be something like "Russian Institutional Church," "English Puritan Rite/Church" and "Roman Orthodox Church." --[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 14:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

凄 also means ''wonderful, great, terrific, tremendous, real''. --[[User:El Phoenix|El Phoenix]] 12:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'll make this clear. Here are the original chapter titles of volume 7:

* Prologue: 行動開始　The_Page_is_Opened.
* Chapter 1: 学園都市　Science_Worship.
* Chapter 2: ローマ正教　The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
* Chapter 3: イギリス清教　Anglican_Church.
* Chapter 4: 天草式十字凄教　AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
* Epilogue: 行動終了　The_Page_is_Shut. --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Main Page Format ==
'''Please Vote [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3562 poll]'''
----

Okay, let's clear some things up. Do we want to keep the author's bizarre English, underscores and all? I think we should, since he uses symbols in the majority of the titles, and they were originally removed due to someone mistaking it for bad formatting.

And how do we want to format the chapter titles? I was thinking keeping the two titles, separated by two spaces, the first title ending in a period and the second being italicized. I've made my own test version and have viewed it via Show Preview, but because *20 edits later by others*, I never really got the chance to apply it. I can still apply it and all we would have to do is undo the revision if anyone agrees with my thoughts.

So, ideas, opinions? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Before I like to start on this. I'll like to emphasize that I won't tolerate any format changes, none, unless we all agree to it. To both The Shadow , I understand what you're trying to do, but how would you like it if someone is to take help you do something, yet without your permission, and not the way you wanted it? It's the same thing. And to Suzuku, I have to be blunt here, that was really rude. You should have talked it out before taking action. I'll beseech to everyone, not just the two parties involved, that if you want to carry out any format changes like tenses and the like, please discuss it with us first before you do anything.

Now, onto the main point. I feel that either we leave if as it was, or we do the original titles that has the Japanese versions. The translations of the titles may not be universally accepted, unlike the original, so it would be difficult at times to reconcile with the translations, like here:

* Novel Illustrations
* Prologue: Begin Action — The_Page_is_Opened.
* Chapter 1: Academy City — Science_Worship.
* Chapter 2: Roman Orthodox Church — The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
* Chapter 3: British Puritan Church — Anglican_Church.
* Chapter 4: Amakusa-style Church of Distinct Doctrines — AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
* Epilogue: End Action — The_Page_is_Shut.
* Afterword

I'm in favour of the status quo, or even better, if we can leave the original Japanese titles.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I think you guys need to request someone with supervisor rights to become your supervisor and serve as an arbitrator? --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 03:52, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

From my understanding the original novels, for each chapter, have a japanese title and a english title (the one with the underscores). If this is the case, my preference would be for both to be present, as above. Admittedly, it looks pretty odd for volume 7, but it looks like there the difficulty would be differentiating between religion as organization vs. religion as belief system. Also, sorry for contributing to edit war. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

While I'm fine with the either of the older formats (just "Science_Worship./Science Worship.", no translated titles), will the Japanese titles work out since this a translation project? Yeah, 5–10 passersby will understand them, but the majority won't. And the titles look nice on the contents pages because they're neatly separated into columns, whereas since the title translations can get fairly long-winded, it makes it somewhat difficult to make it look consistent and not have a huge amount of unnecessary space between a title. Though we could also romanize them instead, like:

*Prologue: Kōdō Kaishi.  ''The_Page_is_Opened.''

That would make some romanization difficult, though (especially if your knowledge of the language is half-assed like mine), and would slightly be better than just right-out Japanese characters. And Teh Ping, were you in favor for the original English lines with the underscores or the spaces?

And just for a side-note, the Russian project of Index has both titles, though the translator keeps the English titles as-is, most likely because he's a Japanese to Russian translator (must make Kamachi's heavy use of English-oriented furigana a pain).

Also, Larethian, we've gotten quite far without the supposedly necessary supervisor or admin, so why start now? It's actually sort of surprising that Index hasn't had one volunteer yet. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Well, it's good that you guys can arbitrate among yourself. On closer look now, I see that the edit war is caused by casual editors rather than editors of the project. Speaking of the supervisors, I don't even see them around much? I know Vaelis, who has admin rights, is actively lurking.:) --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 06:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I also think that you should keep the two titles: the first title translated into English and the weird English title of the Author. The current version looks ok but you could italicize the second title. — [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 08:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, there's too few translators for us to sort ourselves out -_-, so we didn't need a supervisor up till now. However, if there's a need to have one, seeing how it goes now with all the debates here, I'll volunteer for it.

As for the author's English, I say we keep the underscores. Honestly, I prefer the Japanese titles for the first title instead of the translated ones. Maybe we should get Tact to chip in his thoughts on this, since he's the proofreader here. Will do a poll when I get home, or if we really can't decide, I'll get Herald of Meridian to post a poll on the wikia.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

When I said Japanese, I meant the original hiragana, katakana, kanji and the likes, not romaji.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 10:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I think Teh Ping's suggestion of retaining the original script for the chapter 7 titles makes the most sense-it's exactly what we have chosen to do in translating the chapter titles of the manga (Hoshi no Furu Machi) I'm editing. Yes, keep the underscores and all. I don't really see a problem with using JIS romaji in place of the katakana/hiragana/kanji, but I don't see an advantage to it either.

My concern is the translation of these terms in the body text - it needs to be consistent within and between volumes, and I believe it should closely mirror the meaning of the hiragana/katakana/kanji in the body text, rather than the author's somewhat engrishy attempt at translation himself in the chapter titles. This is with the goal of emulating the Japanese reader's experience as closely as possible. -- [[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 15:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

We have created a [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3562 poll] regarding that in the wiki!

@Teh_Ping I dont think you should translate 教 as church if also 会 (as 教会) would be needed to become the word for church...

Also I would prefer an English translation (since I cant read Kanji (only with Rikachan) nor understand the Romaji transcription, but would also like to know the name of the title) with the original hidden in <nowiki>  </nowiki> and with the "subtitle" in ''italic'' separated with a normal dash (-) and not a "& mdash ;"(—), but without the underlines but rather with spaces (but that is only because I think it looks strange with those underlines). --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 17:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

My view is that keep the Japanese version of the chapter titles and give the English translation of that on the chapter page itself, even if only for the reason it looks better on the contents page that way (among others). As for the underscores and other things in the author's English, I suggest we keep it the same as how it is shown - if necessary change it on the chapter page, but leave it as it is on the main page. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 21:36, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

What would you think if it was formated like that:
----
===Example===
'''<nowiki>===Volume 3===</nowiki>'''
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Illustrations|Novel Illustrations]]
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Prologue|Prologue: Radio Noise]]
** Level2
*Chapter 1: Imagine Breaker
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Chapter1|Level0(and_More)]]
* Radio Noise
**Level2(Product_Model)

----
(Prologue example 1; Chap 1 example 2; Chap 2 example 3 - but I think "chapter" should be kept) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Beyond the inconsistent link locations, I'm not in favor of having each chapter split up over two lines, it seems that it could be confusing, especially to people new to the site, and it doesn't look as nice to me. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

As said that are three different examples. The Prologue is example 1, chapter 1 is example 2 and chapter 2 is example 3 - its just another suggestion instead of the long chapter titles in one line... Of those examples I would prefer example 2, which would mostly be like its done with some MariMite chapters. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 06:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, building off of Darklor's example, here's what the idea I suggested in the forums would look like:
----
===Example 2===
'''<nowiki>===Volume 1===</nowiki>'''
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Illustrations|Novel Illustrations]]
*'''Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy/幻想殺しの少年のお話'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Prologue|The_Imagine-Breaker.]]
*'''Chapter 1: The Magician Lands in the Town/魔術師は塔に降り立つ'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 1|FAIR,_Occasionally_GIRL.]]
*'''Chapter 2: The Conjurer Bestows Demise/奇術師は終焉を与える'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 2|The_7th-Edge.]]
*'''Chapter 3: The Grimoire Peacefully Smiles/魔道書は静かに微笑む'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 3|Forget_me_not.]]
*'''Chapter 4: The Retiring Magician Chooses the End/退魔師は終わりを選ぶ'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 4|(N)Ever_Say_Good_bye.]]
*'''Epilogue: The Conclusion of the Index of Prohibited Books Girl/禁書目録の少女の結末'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Epilogue|Index-Librorum-Prohibitorum.]]

----
So what does everyone think? It's certainly unique, but considering the chapter title scheme of the Index novel is unique, it fits. ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks great: but would it possibly be better to have whitespace on both sides of the '/' mark? Like:

*'''Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy / 幻想殺しの少年のお話'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Prologue|The_Imagine-Breaker.]]

Just a minor suggestion. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 01:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

It's not a noticeable change, but I don't mind. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

First off I'd like to apologize to Teh Ping and everyone else. Like you said it probably would have been better to start off this discussion before sparking the whole little edit war that went on. In regards to the discussion itself I think your suggestion looks rather nice Suzuku, especially with Sagantsu's minor tweak. Maybe it would also be good to add a little note somewhere on the main page explaining how Kamachi formats the chapter titles so people can see where each part comes from. [[User:The Shadow|The Shadow]] 04:58, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Holy canoli at these great walls of text! In any case, I quite like Suzuku's suggestion (with Saganatsu's addendum). --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==Awards==
2011 is correct? Because at the moment its only 2010... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's correct, as the listing is for the entire year of 2011, which is why the polling is done at the end of 2010. ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

While we're on it, I tweaked the format for the award section a bit. Any objections/complaints? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Short Synopsis==
I replaced it with an edited version of the wiki's. Yes, I realize the old one was also just a more cut up version of the wiki's, but the English wasn't as well worded and it looked a bit sparse. Objections? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Header==
So I added one. Thoughts? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't see any problems, and no objections to one personally. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 01:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I would say bold would be better for the first "To Aru Majutsu no Index". --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 04:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I tried that, but it came off looking weird, so I stuck with italics. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:38, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

== chapter title Vol2 Ch3 ==

I don't think that the chapter title for Volume 2 Chapter 3 is correct: it's an exact copy of Volume 1 Chapter 3, in both the english and translated japanese. could someone check this? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:30, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

No, it's correct. The chapter title uses the exact same Kanji and English title as the title of Volume 1 Chapter 3. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

=="To Aru" Majutsu no Index==
Wikipedia recently agreed to have the wiki page on this series be titled "Toaru Majutsu no Index". Should we follow their decision? --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

would be alot of work: main page, registration page, one formatting page, upto 10 pages per volume (4 chapters, one epilogue, one war report, one declaration of..., an afterword, a full text page, and a illustrations page)= upper limit of 243 pages needing moving, updating the links on all of them, updating the links on the sidebar... . If someone is willing to do all that, I'm all for it. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 00:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't particularly mind either way, though I do think Toaru is the correct version myself. I don't know how formatting links work for the server admin, so it might be easier to just do it next the B-T server randomly goes down. Again. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

== Underscores ==

Was there a decision or two I missed somewhere? why did [[User:Kraft|Kraft]] take out all the underscores on the chapter titles? was under impression that they were to be left in. also, why added the periods at the end? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 21:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

From the looks of it, Kraft has been re-editing the titles applying punctuation rules and probably assumed the underscores were a formatting issue without knowing that the current format was agreed upon by the editors and supervisors of the project (I don't think they realized that was how it was meant to be). It would be nice if the entire series could be locked only to have edits approved by a supervisor or editor to prevent drive-by editing on a project of such a large scale. --[[User:Lighthalzen|Lighthalzen]] 22:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Dunno, but the ending period on the translated line helps distinguish the two titles. And I see he did it on the chapter pages themselves, but the decision was for the main page itself. The problem with the supervisor–editor thing is, we don't have a specific supervisor for the Index project, nor do any of them seem to frequent enough for all the updates we make to the main page (the percentage updates). We also don't have an editor with actual editor rights anyway (though I wish Tact would frequent more to get it). Besides, the translators would need the similar abilities just to create a page. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

==Inserting hidden page numbers into the text?==
Is it possible for the translators to mark where the pages start and end? That would enable me to look up the original lines more easily, and I'd like to try making some nice-looking PDFs down the road... --Tactician J 14:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I could go through eventually and help with that if I stop being lazy and when the tense issue is resolved. Anyway, I did a small preview of how it would look on parts 9–10 of volume 16's chapter 1. Basically, lines can be cut off randomly in the middle of the sentence (or words for that matter), so don't feel too reliant on the original formatting. Not to mention that every other page has the two titles for the chapter. And out of curiosity, how would you do the illustrations? Some colored ones have three-page-spreads and seeing an illustration after the part it happens in the text just isn't the same as seeing it as you turn the page, so would you use a two-page style, two-pages for just illustrations with the text page, or just one page at a time? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] 14:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Text pages get single pages, but two-/three-page illustration spreads will be fused together, more or less. --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

==Thought processes==
Just wondering if I am the only one that's slightly uncomfortable with how thoughts are differentiated from the rest of the text in different ways. It seems that the most common methods of indicating thoughts are either in (parenthesis), ''italics'', or ''(italics and parenthesis)''. Perhaps we can come to some kind of a standard for this... or is there a difference as to how certain thought processes are? (I don't have access to the Japanese text or cultural knowledge to know...) -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

In the original texts, most thoughts are in parentheses but some also aren't, just like how most spoken dialogue is in quotes but some isn't. English novels also do it (the quoteless dialogues, though thoughts don't have to be emphasized with italics or parentheses), but I think it's more of a slight difference to not feel so abusive with them during dialogue/thought scenes. The italics is just something we started doing (I don't remember why?) and aren't in the original format. I don't think Japanese use italics at all, but they do have a way to emphasize certain parts of a line without just bolding it, though I forget what it's called. If you have any lines in mind that you'd like to me to look up and post as examples, go ahead, though it'll be in Japanese. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Occassionally some do use bold, but most of the time, most novels use 『』 or 【】 parentheses for emphasis. Italics look intuitive for monologue (and yes the Japanese don't use them). I've used it right from the start in LOLH, because I saw it in Toradora. Some CSR pages I saw use parentheses, but '''Italics''' just feel right to me. I've not read enough Index to know how the author presents thoughts. But based on your description, my guess is those in parentheses are First-Person monologue, while those that aren't are narrator-reported thoughts. --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 04:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow, never thought they might be monologues. I normally associate monologues with just quotation marks since they're said aloud. Now I'm even more confused as to what to do/how to read, haha. --[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 06:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

== british vs american english ==

which english should we use: part of the project is in american english and part in british. It's not really that important to me which, but we should probably settle on one or the other. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 20:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

british will be better because they don`t use america--[[User:Cognitio|Cognitio]]

Do you mean to say that the story has English characters but no (few?) American characters? That makes some sense.--[[User:CarVac|CarVac]] 22:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

American English. See the [[Format_guideline#Spelling_and_Grammar|Format guideline]]. [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 13:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

That standard was established before we had multiple projects, and was left in. given that it was written for when we only had one project, should it be up to each project to decide which version?
the original line was this:
:* '''Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors & Readers the standard spelling lexicon for this project will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary]''' --13:18, 26 April 2006 by [[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]]

the current version in place is
:Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors and Readers, the standard spelling lexicon for this Wiki will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary] --5:37, 16 March 2007 by [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]]

which was changed as part of the original update altering the format page from a Haruhi only version to a version for all projects.

also, [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] stopped editing a year before this project was created: [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index&dir=prev&action=history here] vs [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Smidge204 here]. and thus the format page, in it's current form, would not have considered a project that might have reason to use british english.

As the current text came about due to a change regarding the style of the formatting page, and not as an actual policy decision, and as the party who made the original style decision is no longer on the wiki to ask, I argue that the statement currently on the format page can be overridden by the people working on a particular project, especially if there is reason beyond personal preference, as has been argued above.

thus we come back to the question: which would the contributors prefer for this project? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah stop arguing. As the one responsible for all of these, I'll take the charges (my job anyway, haven't updated the Supervisor tag)

I have already PMed Big Boss regarding this, so if he doesn't have any personal preference regarding this, I will make the decision.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

To quote the PM:

[quote="thelastguardian"]Well, if they are from England, of course they speak British English :p . Seems perfectly logical to me.[/quote]

There you have it. I'm going to introduce a new set of guidelines soon.

I'd let the England-based characters speak British English, but what about the narration? --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't like the idea of switching languages here and there so easily, feels weird to me because it's like the characters are in a different realm from the readers.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

== Dragon ==

who is this dragon in vol 15?

see volume 19 --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 07:08, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

== who's gonna translte volume 15 and 19? ==

can someone translate all of volume 15 and 19? the parts about shiage are just epic.

- Give it some time. JS06 is translating SS1. Volume 15 hasn't been translated dedicated-ly since December and Vol 19 was mostly translated by Flare in December-who is less active now. Volume 15 has a higher chance of being translated soon after SS1 is completed.

Well, I'm not letting anyone translate 15 until Joay himself says that he will allow others to take over.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:45, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

+ That's fine. Can you ask Joay if it is ok for others to take over vol 15?

Sounds like you are under the assumption that someone would do it if no Joay doesn't they might work the earlier novels... On a side note can someone post on the boards that activation email are down. I can't get the activation email and I can't post telling someone to look into that. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] 01:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Way ahead of you, check js06's talk page.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 02:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

== volume 23 and 24 ==

i heard its out already, volume 23 and 24. are you guys going to translate them?

Volume 23 will be called New Testament Volume 1. As for whether we will be translating it, you can bet on it once we get resources.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

==And Misaka Mikoto?==
Looks like the novel have the "New testament" series and you already put a Spoier about Touma (Dead), Accelerator and Shiage, but WHAT HAPPENED TO MISAKA? (and index but I relly do not care too much).

== SS Volume 2? ==

Just wondering: where in the timeline does SS Volume 2 take place? On the main page it's shown between Volumes 16 and 17, but on the Registration page it's shown between Volumes 19 and 20.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 00:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

== alternative language? ==

according to [[Category:Alternative Languages]], british english is an alternative language. does this mean this project is, or only that projects with a british english variant are alternative? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 19:28, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

== Terminology ==

In Volume 14 Chapter 3 Part 4, Tatemiya Saiji is referred to as "Substitute Pope". He was previously referred to in Volumes 7 and 11 as "substitute Supreme Pontiff" (likewise, Kanzaki Kaori is referred to as "Supreme Pontiff"). If the Japanese writing for these terms is the same in each instance, then it would be best to pick a standard translation and use that.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 05:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit:
Also "Acqua of the Back" (Volume 14 Epilogue) versus "Acqua of the Rear".

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 06:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Toaru Majutsu no Index

2011-03-06T06:21:32Z

Stiyl: /* Terminology */

[http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1697525#post1697525 Illustration overview] reminder found in the project forum...

== How I enlist ? ==

I done reading to aru majutsu no index chapter 9. So i want to post it in here.
Is it possible? How can I post it anyway? Japanese to Indonesia. japanese to englist. - ([[User:Kili|Kili]])

Well, you could really just post it unless you want specific clearance from the moderators at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2148&start=195 project forum]. For the Indonesian one, you should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Indonesian" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Repose

actuality I already completed translate english. Not so hard to make it to indonesia. but if I done where and how post it ? - ([[User:Kili|Kili]])

The Indonesian version? For that you have to create the Alternate Language Project similar to other Alternate Language Projects with the complete translation of the Project Page (as a naming example: <nowiki>[[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]]</nowiki> ([[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]])), Registration Page, a thread in the Alternate Language Subforum in the Baka-Tsuki Forum and at least one translated Chapter to get the approval to continue the project. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 23:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

it so hard for to made but I will keep trying. I need time to study about it.

am i wrong ?

I've just joined up, and have registered on the TAMNI register page, is that good enough? I can't seem to get into the forum link. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Should be just fine, as I assume you'll be translating to English like the other things you've done. I suppose you don't need the forum unless you want to set up a project page up or want to discuss translation terms, but still, not sure why the links don't work for you. --[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

==Chapter 2: Doubt_Lovers.==
The link refer to "http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume5_'''Chapter1'''" So I think of them is wrong?
--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 12:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks EnigmaticRepose for fixing it!--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 00:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

==What the shit.==
Why would a translation project start at volume 12 instead of volume 1? Imagine watching the Lord of the Rings movie series for the first time in your life...except instead of watching it starting from the first movie, you skip to the middle of the 3rd movie during the seige of Gondor. And as you sit through the movie you keep going "Oh this sword guy is kinda cool whats his name? And who is this Sauron guy?".

you, whoever you are, are being horrendously rude and ungrateful for the fact that the translators (you seem pointed at [[user:Joay|Joay]] in particular) not only translate these novels, they do it for free. Besides that, volumes 1 through 6 are covered by the anime, and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index_light_novels] has synopses of all the novels. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Also since the translators have the power, they can decide what they like to translate, so if you could translate as well you could start with volume 1 if you like it... or with chapter x in volume y ;) So if you dont cant and dont like it you dont have to read it. I am gratful for that what we have, so should you too if you like to read more of those otherwise unobtainable unreadable volumes. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 08:34, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

hmm, now that volume 7 and 9 are translated and volume 10 is being translated, i'd like to ask if there is a specific reason that volume 8 was skipped.? It doesn't really matter though, since i was just wondering if maybe the story in 8 takes place in a different time than 7->9. other than that, i'm fine with waiting, since you're all (yeah, you translators ^_^ ) doing a fantastic job at translating this so far. keep up the good work.
oh yeah, and... Ganbare!--[[User:AzraRillian|-AzraRillian - Transcend The Sin - "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body." C.S. Lewis]] 03:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

===Took me five months to even notice this, sorry...===

The reason why I did Volumes 9 and 10 before volume 8 was basically because of a request (the first guy who PMed me when I worked on this project asked me whether I can do Volume 9 first. So, sorry...?

And to the guy who has been complaining about Volume 1 not being translated first, well, no point talking about it now when out of a sudden, there are three guys working on volume 1 now (I'm really, really glad to have other people share the workload). Like what [[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] said, the anime has pretty much covered most of the important aspects, and since there's a sizeable fandom of it that can provide all sorts of information, you're not really in the dark regarding what has happened. The 'Lord of the Rings' idea doesn't really work since you would have most likely gone about trying to find out what's going on in order to answer the question of 'what's going on?' Or did you not even bother looking for it?

Well, instead of complaining, you might as well do something about it if you can. Orders are nothing if the actions are not done, you know. We're not entitled to do this for you, we're not even paid to do this. We're doing this only because we want to. We translators here are like Kamijo Touma, we don't have a reason to do things, we just do it.

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

== What tense to use? ==

So, after reading some chapters of the seventh volume I would like to ask a question. What tense would you use in descriptions? Right now I’m doing some edits on the translated texts but there is always this one thing I’m tripping over. In this volume, and most likely also in the others, we have a third person narrator. In this case you would normally write the descriptions or narrations in the past tense, right? That’s what I would do at least and is commonly done in the most English novels. But as it is, there are some differences in the Asian and the English writing and that includes the used tenses. Because of these differences the translator decided to use the present tense in the above-named cases (most of the time at least). Of course, this isn’t a mistake, but I often feel like it would be one. Perhaps I’m just too used reading the past tense in descriptions but to me, with some exceptions, it often feels awkward when I read some of them in present tense. I would like to get some more opinions on this matter. Is it just me who has this problem or do you think the same as me? [[user:AJS90|AJS90]] 21 March 2010

I've really just been using present tense for everything, which I based off of how the translators worded it. It's a bit weird for the narrator to do so, but eh, I'm used to it already. ...On a side note, it's nice not being the only editor anymore. ~EnigmaticRepose

Yeah, I've been using present tense for my edits, too- but only because there might be a convention in light novels regarding it that I'm unaware of. Better safe than sorry, you know? I MIGHT try a past-tense sweep edit for second opinions, but only after I'm done with my ongoing ones.--Tactician J 03:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== About translating. ==

well to be honest, i dont know all that much japanese so i cant really translate, i however have atlas, so the question is can i use atlas as a raw draft and then start editing from there?

another dumb question i have is if there's a reason why the novels are listed only up to volume 13? because i can find them easily on hongfire or emule if anyone needs them.

No, atlas will just lead to shit translations and cause more trouble then what's it worth - response

Unfortunately, translation software will normally make it harder for anyone to translate. You can use it from time to time to check some harder words, but the best is if you have knowledge of Japanese, Chinese, or Korean (Correct me on this one if I'm wrong.) and translate it manually, since it's hard for anyone to start working on it if they don't know what the text is about in the first place. ~Teh Ping

You could try it, but I would wonder and call you very lucky if the outcome isnt gibberish --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:23, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== I need illustrations for Volume 10 ==

Exactly what's written on it. Would the uploader kindly upload the illustrations of the other volumes? Many thanks in advance.~Teh Ping

would it be enough a link of megaupload volumes 1-16 and with the illustration? anyway heres the link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2AS0PZD7
-ark

== Pic translation ==
Ah, could someone translate the pics too, if there is on them something to translate, please? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 05:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Most the pictures just have quotes from the novel, with additional tiny descriptions, like 'Academy City Tokiwadai Student' or 'English Purist "Church of Necessary Evil (Necessarius)' and the like, so you aren't missing much. It's really just a fit it in the context after you read it, as they're supposed to be teasers for the story anyway (which is why they're placed in the beginning).

Hm, I thought it would be nice - like we have it for Sword Art Online especially since we dont have translations for all volumes, so some teasers would be nice ;). Have meant only pics like those: [[:Image:Index v01 002-003.jpg|Image 1]]; [[:Image:Index v01 004-005.jpg|Image 2]]; [[:Image:Index v01 006-007.jpg|Image 3]] --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 10:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

== Just a slight concern. ==

As Joay and I are busy with our own stuff, I suppose that there should be some sort of a Project Supervisor around to keep check of certain stuff. There will be updates in the future, as Twi will continue to translate this series (hopefully), but I hope that there's someone to keep this series in check, since it's no longer a 'small' project anymore (I guess, since YMMV). ~Teh Ping

== Spanish section request ==

I would like to start a spanish section for the novels.--[[Special:Contributions/190.41.2.140|190.41.2.140]] 22:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

You should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Spanish" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up. Registering may also be a good idea. An Indonesian one was also set up, so you could use that as a reference. --EnigmaticRepose

== I'll try to translate a bit ==

Currently my japanese is iffy at best, but as i'm studying it might as well give it a shot.I'll try to pick up the 1st chapter of volume one (no one's doing it right?). I'm asking here first as well, i don't know if i can manage it yet.
If i manage to somehow not embarrass myself too much doing that i'll register, and work on the rest of the volume.
Again, i can't be sure i'll manage it so... best try it out first then see.--[[User:AADragon|AADragon]] 16:35, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

No one would say something against it, just feel free to ge ahead, but best would be to register the chapter before, even if it is not very probable that some other translator would translate it anytime soon, but wonder happens sometime, so just to be safe ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Thanks for your work!!==
Glad to see translated this novel series by Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for working so hard and fast.
At this point, I can say that the translators will surpass Index II(by JCStaff) in covering the novels :)

another fan of Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for all of the great work ^^)/

== Translations? ==

I'm new here, and I want to translate some stuff.
I was reading the chinese version and randomly decided to translate V1C4 from Chinese to English.

Do I need some sort of clearance? Or can I just go ahead and upload my stuff (especially since my translation quality is most definitely sub-par)?

===Go ahead and just upload it===

The editors will be helping out with the language. I'll also help you proofread it if you want.

Over here, there's no need for any bureaucratic red tape. Any translator can just upload their stuff here, so you can just upload it.

EDIT: Still having a bit of trouble with the formatting, garr...

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:51, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Some Question ==

Er.... So, I already translated about three chapter and half from the 2nd Volume...
and the question is... How do I upload it? Any clues?

===Here's what you need===

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Format_guideline#Wiki_Editing_Tips

1. First, go to the volume that you want to upload.

2. Do you see the edit button on the top right hand corner? Click it.

3. Look at the 'Internal link' section, that is how you're going to add hyperlinks. (You can look at the other volumes for reference)

4. If you did it right, the words should be in red, click on it.

5. Now, you should be in a new page. Click on the 'create' button at the top.

6. Upload the text that you have already translated. (Make sure to press 'enter' once after every paragraph so that it's easier to
read.)

7. Next, the headings. At the wiki editing tips page, look at the 'headings' section (well, duh).

8. If you see the format used on all B-T texts, you'll probably get an idea of how to do it. (Just copy what they do.)

9. For pictures, it's under 'thumbnail image', the 'picture' would be from the illustrations of the volume that's available here. If I want a picture from say 'Volume 1 page 031', the format would be <nowiki>[[Image:Index_v01_031.jpg|thumb]]</nowiki>

10. For a footer, just go to any completed chapter here, copy the scripts for the footer, and make the necessary edits.

If you need any more help, you can pm me.

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I wonder what happened with this translator and translation... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

----

==VOLUME 11==

english Volume 11 has been sabed over by the spanish version. Any chance of recovery?

===Erm, excuse me, but you lost me there===

Is there anything wrong? Since when do we have a Spanish section?

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

----
Not sure, but I think they're talking about all the chapter titles being in gratuitous Italian.

----
Actually, check the scan of the [http://img55.imageshack.us/f/009xf5.jpg/ original table of contents]. You'll see that it's actually in said gratuitous Italian. (This may be incorrect, but I doubt it) --[[User:MerrickXasis|MerrickXasis]]

----

Oh that, that's what you guys meant. Yes, it's supposed to be in gratuitous Italian, since the plot setting is in Italy (Before you guys start blaming me for spoiling it, the prologue of Volume 11 will be uploaded in 4 hours.)--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:21, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

==To Aru Majutsu No Index Volume 3==

Can You work on volume 3. Sorry for asking, because I love this arc. --anonymous

the sisters arc is great, but, we have it already in two separate manga and the anime. new content would be my preference. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 15:00, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, we'll see how it goes. Most likely, I'll leave it as training for some new translator. I'm planning to be more of a drill sergeant for these new translators, so, get ready.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I know about the anime and manga but I love to read more. But anyway Thank^^. I will wait for anyone to translate it.

==Consensus: Past or Present?==
'''Please Vote [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 poll]'''
----
With six active translators and three editors, this project needs to come to an agreement regarding tense usage. Do we stick to present tense, or do we shift to past tense?--Tactician J 10:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

For me, it's more of past for what just happened and present for what happens during the sequence. I also use a 'present future tense'. Next vote?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm all for present as usual, but as I've said before, I can work with either. I get more attached to present tense stories, anyway. If we do end up agreeing on present tense, we might want to put it somewhere on the main page, and even in commentary tags by the editor list for extra insurance, as odds are potential editors/translators don't check the talk page until someone actually uses it. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

I've only just realised/remembered there's a talk page here ^.^; I'm voting for past tense as that's what I'm used to, and that from what I can gather from the '''official''' Chinese translated Index Novels I have on hand right now they use past tense as well. It'll be easier for me to work in past tense. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:12, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== Volume 14 ==

I know this must be annoying being asked this but could someone work on doing Volume 14?

I don't think anyone is doing this at the moment, volumes 1,SS1,15, & 22 seem to be under active or semi-active translation, but volume 14 is probably coming soon. admitedly, it's just a guess, but as it will be the first volume not in the first season untranslated after SS1 is done, it will probably get done soon. If you can translate, however, feel free to start, no one has registered for it. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

== Churches ==

To the translators and editors: both the anglican church and russian orthodox church exists :[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England],[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church] exist. they are not made up by the author. (technically the anglican church's proper name is the 'Church of England', and is the leader of the 'Anglican Communion'). I'm quite certain also that the Roman Catholic Church exists also, being a lapsed member. The Amakusa Church is made up though: it was named after an island of japan where the heads of executed christians were buried in 1637 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakusa]. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't really know how to explain this, but here's a post by an AS user called Thirdlc, which I find to be very good in explaining it.

"The author uses coined words like 十字教, イギリス清教, ローマ正教 and ロシア成教, instead of actual words like キリスト教 (Christianity), 英国国教会 (Church of England), ローマ・カトリック (Roman Catholic Church), ロシア正教 (Russian Orthodox Church).

I don't like it that those are directly referred, ignoring the author's intention.

Looking at these names, it's possible that the author just wants to make them end with "seikyou" and there is not much meaning in 清.

イギリス清教 (Igirisu [B]seikyou[/B]), ローマ正教 (Roma [B]seikyou[/B]), ロシア成教 (Roshia [B]seikyou[/B]), 天草式十字凄教 (Amakusa-shiki juuji [B]seikyou[/B]) "

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*No hand facepalm...*

Well, to any editor, I'm going to need your help here.

For all the 'Amakusa Catholics' change them into the 'Amakusa-style Church'.

Anyone got any other way to translate the rest, or should we stick to the terms given in volume 7?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah--[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

That could need a [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 guideline discussion]... ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 17:01, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I think this needs to be translated consistently between the volumes. A guideline discussion seems necessary. Just because Vol. 7 was translated first doesn't mean that it's done appropriately (I haven't even looked, so couldn't venture an opinion). Likewise, I would hesitate to buy into a 'canon' translation by a Japanese author - church names tend to be archaic English, for one thing, which is not well covered by Japanese style English education.

My take, now that I see some of the source: 教 seems to be used in the way that we use ''teaching,'' ''rite,''(compare 'rites' of Freemasonry) or even (religious) ''tradition'' in English. So maybe translate イギリス清教 as 'English Puritan rite,' 'English Puritan church,' or 'English Puritan teaching.' By extension, that would lead to 'Roman Orthodox rite'/'Roman Orthodox church' and 'Russian Institutional rite/church' (I'm having a tough time translating the on reading of 成 into something that isn't 'orthodox' in this context.) Likewise, 凄教 translates pretty well as 'cult' for me. Did a little googling and found this page [http://toarumajutsunoindex.wikia.com/wiki/Amakusa-Style_Remix_of_Church] which seems to agree with my 'cult' definition. So the 'Amakusa cult.'

By analogy, It seems obvious that the author is ''suggesting'' real churches, but is very careful not to use their common names in Japanese, I would guess both to avoid angry adherents of the real churches and to help with the alternate universe separation of realities. For example, ロシア成教 is practically synonymous with the meaning of 'Russian Orthodox Church' but just happens to not be the way it is written in Japanese. It seems that we would want a similar obfuscation in the translation for the same reasons. -[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 16:58, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I just want to give my two cents to agree with the character 教 itself translating to cult. It's used quite commonly in Chinese text to such effect. However, I believe the only problem in doing so would be that cults in the English language are usually seen as heretical and some organizations might not fit that light. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:30, 17 November 2010

Well, I should be resting, but since this is important, I'll give an answer.

The so-called canon translations aren't invented by me or Joay or any other translator. When I said Volume 7, I meant the chapter titles of volume 7. The names on the main page, they're canon, we didn't do anything except removing the japanese text. Of course, if we're to go by our own common knowledge, cult would be the better term, but it'll feel a lot less familiar.
 
 

Why are these religions named as 'cults'? As someone who has Chinese as my first language, I haven't came across something like the character '教' being equivalent to that... (Or I just can't remember it - can anyone give some examples?)
But yeah, in canon these Churches are for all intents and purposes 'religions' and not 'cults' as the English speakers understand it.
Maybe we can make some sort of 'need-to-know' translation notes for readers on the Index Novels' main page if this issue becomes a serious one? Just putting it out there the Churches in this universe is not the ones equivalent to Real-Life's ones. In the Official Chinese Translated Volume 1 of TAMNI (pg30, next to a illustration page of Index) I have on hand there's a Note saying all churches mentioned in this series are made-up ones by the author.
Also, I can vouch for the English spellings being correct (I have a hard copy of the Official Chinese translated Index Novel Vol7) given in Vol7 of the Churches are as the person above me has said - so I think what we have right now should stay. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 05:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Have you read the Jing Yong novels? Condor heroes etc? The Ming Cult gets referenced quite often -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 07:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Its Japanese then maybe the meaning of '教' is different between Japanese and Chinese? (Rikaichan says for that "teach", "faith", "doctrine") And if the Churches are realy made up by the author shouldnt then イギリス清教, ローマ正教, ロシア成教 and 天草式十字凄教 be British Puritan, Roman Orthodox, Russian 成(?) and Amakusa(n) 凄 (? unorthodox) faith or doctrine instead of Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox Church? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

No no, Kanji used by Japanese have basically the same meaning in Chinese. In Chinese, that character does indeed mean teach, doctrine, etc. It depends on how it is used. It is really difficult to draw meaning from one character, it depends on how it is used along with other characters before one can drawn meaning from it. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

---

I haven't came across those examples you (Snorca) mentioned, but from what I looked up in a Chinese -> English dictionary (Granted, this particular reference book is from 1994 so it's more than a decade old...) the character '教' doesn't have the meaning of cult... and as far as I know from other sources the Chinese term for 'cult' is '邪教', the characters can literally be translated into 'evil religion'. The character '教' alone doesn't mean 'cult' but just 'religion' I think.

But precise meaning/s of the words aside, IMO for all intents and purposes these 'religious organisations', for a lack of better term right now, are similar in structure to real-life churches, even if they're not named the same. These organisations are churches in canon (in terms of influence, history and other such aspects), not cults, and should probably be called as 'churches'. And to prevent mixing up with Real-Life versions maybe some other name can be introduced, but with the word 'church' included? Or like I suggested earlier we can just note the differences between the ToaruVerse Churches and the Real-Life Churches on the TAMNI main page?

That reminds me, the novels calls 'Christianity' (for a lack of better term to describe the religion that is born from the death of the Son of God is called , the name 'Jesus' is never mentioned in the novels and is always refered to as the 'Son of God') the 'Religion of the Cross', ie '十字教', instead of the usual Chinese version '基督教'. Maybe we should change that in our translations as well somehow? --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 21:57, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, as I've said, the word cult will have problems because it has a negative connotation in it based on how the mass media portrays it. Not all cults are evil though, religions would refuse to be classified as a cult, but in essence of the word, they technically are cults. Cults are basically a group with religious beliefs, but are somewhat considered strange. It had been given a negative image due to how most religions (not gonna name the most obvious one) really, really hate how people stray from their practices.

Anyway, the word church doesn't necessarily mean Christianity. It simply means a sanctuary. For example, the infamous cult church I used to live close by: The Church of Scientology. There are many other cults out there with churches but lack popularity.

Of course, how we use these words are up to the editors and translators. I really have no opinion on what we use, just trying to provide some insight as to how those words are technically acceptable. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Because I was the first one to use the word 'cult' I had better clarify what I meant: I used the word 'cult' '''only''' in reference to the kanji combination 凄教. While all of the church/religion names end with kanji that can be pronounced as "seikyou", the actual kanji used are DIFFERENT between the different religions. Only the ''Amakusa seikyou'' has the kanji 凄教 for "seikyou." 凄 translates as 'uncanny, weird, threatening, horrible,' and 教 is the 'teaching, faith, doctrine' kanji we see at the end of all these word. 'Weird/horrible faith' is pretty close to 'cult.'

By this reasoning, '''only''' the Amakusa group would be called a 'cult.' As I wrote above, the others would be something like "Russian Institutional Church," "English Puritan Rite/Church" and "Roman Orthodox Church." --[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 14:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

凄 also means ''wonderful, great, terrific, tremendous, real''. --[[User:El Phoenix|El Phoenix]] 12:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'll make this clear. Here are the original chapter titles of volume 7:

* Prologue: 行動開始　The_Page_is_Opened.
* Chapter 1: 学園都市　Science_Worship.
* Chapter 2: ローマ正教　The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
* Chapter 3: イギリス清教　Anglican_Church.
* Chapter 4: 天草式十字凄教　AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
* Epilogue: 行動終了　The_Page_is_Shut. --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Main Page Format ==
'''Please Vote [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3562 poll]'''
----

Okay, let's clear some things up. Do we want to keep the author's bizarre English, underscores and all? I think we should, since he uses symbols in the majority of the titles, and they were originally removed due to someone mistaking it for bad formatting.

And how do we want to format the chapter titles? I was thinking keeping the two titles, separated by two spaces, the first title ending in a period and the second being italicized. I've made my own test version and have viewed it via Show Preview, but because *20 edits later by others*, I never really got the chance to apply it. I can still apply it and all we would have to do is undo the revision if anyone agrees with my thoughts.

So, ideas, opinions? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Before I like to start on this. I'll like to emphasize that I won't tolerate any format changes, none, unless we all agree to it. To both The Shadow , I understand what you're trying to do, but how would you like it if someone is to take help you do something, yet without your permission, and not the way you wanted it? It's the same thing. And to Suzuku, I have to be blunt here, that was really rude. You should have talked it out before taking action. I'll beseech to everyone, not just the two parties involved, that if you want to carry out any format changes like tenses and the like, please discuss it with us first before you do anything.

Now, onto the main point. I feel that either we leave if as it was, or we do the original titles that has the Japanese versions. The translations of the titles may not be universally accepted, unlike the original, so it would be difficult at times to reconcile with the translations, like here:

* Novel Illustrations
* Prologue: Begin Action — The_Page_is_Opened.
* Chapter 1: Academy City — Science_Worship.
* Chapter 2: Roman Orthodox Church — The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
* Chapter 3: British Puritan Church — Anglican_Church.
* Chapter 4: Amakusa-style Church of Distinct Doctrines — AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
* Epilogue: End Action — The_Page_is_Shut.
* Afterword

I'm in favour of the status quo, or even better, if we can leave the original Japanese titles.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I think you guys need to request someone with supervisor rights to become your supervisor and serve as an arbitrator? --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 03:52, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

From my understanding the original novels, for each chapter, have a japanese title and a english title (the one with the underscores). If this is the case, my preference would be for both to be present, as above. Admittedly, it looks pretty odd for volume 7, but it looks like there the difficulty would be differentiating between religion as organization vs. religion as belief system. Also, sorry for contributing to edit war. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

While I'm fine with the either of the older formats (just "Science_Worship./Science Worship.", no translated titles), will the Japanese titles work out since this a translation project? Yeah, 5–10 passersby will understand them, but the majority won't. And the titles look nice on the contents pages because they're neatly separated into columns, whereas since the title translations can get fairly long-winded, it makes it somewhat difficult to make it look consistent and not have a huge amount of unnecessary space between a title. Though we could also romanize them instead, like:

*Prologue: Kōdō Kaishi.  ''The_Page_is_Opened.''

That would make some romanization difficult, though (especially if your knowledge of the language is half-assed like mine), and would slightly be better than just right-out Japanese characters. And Teh Ping, were you in favor for the original English lines with the underscores or the spaces?

And just for a side-note, the Russian project of Index has both titles, though the translator keeps the English titles as-is, most likely because he's a Japanese to Russian translator (must make Kamachi's heavy use of English-oriented furigana a pain).

Also, Larethian, we've gotten quite far without the supposedly necessary supervisor or admin, so why start now? It's actually sort of surprising that Index hasn't had one volunteer yet. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Well, it's good that you guys can arbitrate among yourself. On closer look now, I see that the edit war is caused by casual editors rather than editors of the project. Speaking of the supervisors, I don't even see them around much? I know Vaelis, who has admin rights, is actively lurking.:) --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 06:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I also think that you should keep the two titles: the first title translated into English and the weird English title of the Author. The current version looks ok but you could italicize the second title. — [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 08:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, there's too few translators for us to sort ourselves out -_-, so we didn't need a supervisor up till now. However, if there's a need to have one, seeing how it goes now with all the debates here, I'll volunteer for it.

As for the author's English, I say we keep the underscores. Honestly, I prefer the Japanese titles for the first title instead of the translated ones. Maybe we should get Tact to chip in his thoughts on this, since he's the proofreader here. Will do a poll when I get home, or if we really can't decide, I'll get Herald of Meridian to post a poll on the wikia.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

When I said Japanese, I meant the original hiragana, katakana, kanji and the likes, not romaji.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 10:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I think Teh Ping's suggestion of retaining the original script for the chapter 7 titles makes the most sense-it's exactly what we have chosen to do in translating the chapter titles of the manga (Hoshi no Furu Machi) I'm editing. Yes, keep the underscores and all. I don't really see a problem with using JIS romaji in place of the katakana/hiragana/kanji, but I don't see an advantage to it either.

My concern is the translation of these terms in the body text - it needs to be consistent within and between volumes, and I believe it should closely mirror the meaning of the hiragana/katakana/kanji in the body text, rather than the author's somewhat engrishy attempt at translation himself in the chapter titles. This is with the goal of emulating the Japanese reader's experience as closely as possible. -- [[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 15:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

We have created a [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3562 poll] regarding that in the wiki!

@Teh_Ping I dont think you should translate 教 as church if also 会 (as 教会) would be needed to become the word for church...

Also I would prefer an English translation (since I cant read Kanji (only with Rikachan) nor understand the Romaji transcription, but would also like to know the name of the title) with the original hidden in <nowiki>  </nowiki> and with the "subtitle" in ''italic'' separated with a normal dash (-) and not a "& mdash ;"(—), but without the underlines but rather with spaces (but that is only because I think it looks strange with those underlines). --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 17:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

My view is that keep the Japanese version of the chapter titles and give the English translation of that on the chapter page itself, even if only for the reason it looks better on the contents page that way (among others). As for the underscores and other things in the author's English, I suggest we keep it the same as how it is shown - if necessary change it on the chapter page, but leave it as it is on the main page. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 21:36, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

What would you think if it was formated like that:
----
===Example===
'''<nowiki>===Volume 3===</nowiki>'''
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Illustrations|Novel Illustrations]]
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Prologue|Prologue: Radio Noise]]
** Level2
*Chapter 1: Imagine Breaker
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Chapter1|Level0(and_More)]]
* Radio Noise
**Level2(Product_Model)

----
(Prologue example 1; Chap 1 example 2; Chap 2 example 3 - but I think "chapter" should be kept) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Beyond the inconsistent link locations, I'm not in favor of having each chapter split up over two lines, it seems that it could be confusing, especially to people new to the site, and it doesn't look as nice to me. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

As said that are three different examples. The Prologue is example 1, chapter 1 is example 2 and chapter 2 is example 3 - its just another suggestion instead of the long chapter titles in one line... Of those examples I would prefer example 2, which would mostly be like its done with some MariMite chapters. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 06:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, building off of Darklor's example, here's what the idea I suggested in the forums would look like:
----
===Example 2===
'''<nowiki>===Volume 1===</nowiki>'''
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Illustrations|Novel Illustrations]]
*'''Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy/幻想殺しの少年のお話'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Prologue|The_Imagine-Breaker.]]
*'''Chapter 1: The Magician Lands in the Town/魔術師は塔に降り立つ'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 1|FAIR,_Occasionally_GIRL.]]
*'''Chapter 2: The Conjurer Bestows Demise/奇術師は終焉を与える'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 2|The_7th-Edge.]]
*'''Chapter 3: The Grimoire Peacefully Smiles/魔道書は静かに微笑む'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 3|Forget_me_not.]]
*'''Chapter 4: The Retiring Magician Chooses the End/退魔師は終わりを選ぶ'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 4|(N)Ever_Say_Good_bye.]]
*'''Epilogue: The Conclusion of the Index of Prohibited Books Girl/禁書目録の少女の結末'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Epilogue|Index-Librorum-Prohibitorum.]]

----
So what does everyone think? It's certainly unique, but considering the chapter title scheme of the Index novel is unique, it fits. ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks great: but would it possibly be better to have whitespace on both sides of the '/' mark? Like:

*'''Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy / 幻想殺しの少年のお話'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Prologue|The_Imagine-Breaker.]]

Just a minor suggestion. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 01:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

It's not a noticeable change, but I don't mind. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

First off I'd like to apologize to Teh Ping and everyone else. Like you said it probably would have been better to start off this discussion before sparking the whole little edit war that went on. In regards to the discussion itself I think your suggestion looks rather nice Suzuku, especially with Sagantsu's minor tweak. Maybe it would also be good to add a little note somewhere on the main page explaining how Kamachi formats the chapter titles so people can see where each part comes from. [[User:The Shadow|The Shadow]] 04:58, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Holy canoli at these great walls of text! In any case, I quite like Suzuku's suggestion (with Saganatsu's addendum). --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==Awards==
2011 is correct? Because at the moment its only 2010... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's correct, as the listing is for the entire year of 2011, which is why the polling is done at the end of 2010. ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

While we're on it, I tweaked the format for the award section a bit. Any objections/complaints? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Short Synopsis==
I replaced it with an edited version of the wiki's. Yes, I realize the old one was also just a more cut up version of the wiki's, but the English wasn't as well worded and it looked a bit sparse. Objections? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Header==
So I added one. Thoughts? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't see any problems, and no objections to one personally. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 01:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I would say bold would be better for the first "To Aru Majutsu no Index". --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 04:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I tried that, but it came off looking weird, so I stuck with italics. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:38, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

== chapter title Vol2 Ch3 ==

I don't think that the chapter title for Volume 2 Chapter 3 is correct: it's an exact copy of Volume 1 Chapter 3, in both the english and translated japanese. could someone check this? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:30, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

No, it's correct. The chapter title uses the exact same Kanji and English title as the title of Volume 1 Chapter 3. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

=="To Aru" Majutsu no Index==
Wikipedia recently agreed to have the wiki page on this series be titled "Toaru Majutsu no Index". Should we follow their decision? --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

would be alot of work: main page, registration page, one formatting page, upto 10 pages per volume (4 chapters, one epilogue, one war report, one declaration of..., an afterword, a full text page, and a illustrations page)= upper limit of 243 pages needing moving, updating the links on all of them, updating the links on the sidebar... . If someone is willing to do all that, I'm all for it. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 00:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't particularly mind either way, though I do think Toaru is the correct version myself. I don't know how formatting links work for the server admin, so it might be easier to just do it next the B-T server randomly goes down. Again. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

== Underscores ==

Was there a decision or two I missed somewhere? why did [[User:Kraft|Kraft]] take out all the underscores on the chapter titles? was under impression that they were to be left in. also, why added the periods at the end? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 21:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

From the looks of it, Kraft has been re-editing the titles applying punctuation rules and probably assumed the underscores were a formatting issue without knowing that the current format was agreed upon by the editors and supervisors of the project (I don't think they realized that was how it was meant to be). It would be nice if the entire series could be locked only to have edits approved by a supervisor or editor to prevent drive-by editing on a project of such a large scale. --[[User:Lighthalzen|Lighthalzen]] 22:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Dunno, but the ending period on the translated line helps distinguish the two titles. And I see he did it on the chapter pages themselves, but the decision was for the main page itself. The problem with the supervisor–editor thing is, we don't have a specific supervisor for the Index project, nor do any of them seem to frequent enough for all the updates we make to the main page (the percentage updates). We also don't have an editor with actual editor rights anyway (though I wish Tact would frequent more to get it). Besides, the translators would need the similar abilities just to create a page. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

==Inserting hidden page numbers into the text?==
Is it possible for the translators to mark where the pages start and end? That would enable me to look up the original lines more easily, and I'd like to try making some nice-looking PDFs down the road... --Tactician J 14:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I could go through eventually and help with that if I stop being lazy and when the tense issue is resolved. Anyway, I did a small preview of how it would look on parts 9–10 of volume 16's chapter 1. Basically, lines can be cut off randomly in the middle of the sentence (or words for that matter), so don't feel too reliant on the original formatting. Not to mention that every other page has the two titles for the chapter. And out of curiosity, how would you do the illustrations? Some colored ones have three-page-spreads and seeing an illustration after the part it happens in the text just isn't the same as seeing it as you turn the page, so would you use a two-page style, two-pages for just illustrations with the text page, or just one page at a time? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] 14:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Text pages get single pages, but two-/three-page illustration spreads will be fused together, more or less. --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

==Thought processes==
Just wondering if I am the only one that's slightly uncomfortable with how thoughts are differentiated from the rest of the text in different ways. It seems that the most common methods of indicating thoughts are either in (parenthesis), ''italics'', or ''(italics and parenthesis)''. Perhaps we can come to some kind of a standard for this... or is there a difference as to how certain thought processes are? (I don't have access to the Japanese text or cultural knowledge to know...) -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

In the original texts, most thoughts are in parentheses but some also aren't, just like how most spoken dialogue is in quotes but some isn't. English novels also do it (the quoteless dialogues, though thoughts don't have to be emphasized with italics or parentheses), but I think it's more of a slight difference to not feel so abusive with them during dialogue/thought scenes. The italics is just something we started doing (I don't remember why?) and aren't in the original format. I don't think Japanese use italics at all, but they do have a way to emphasize certain parts of a line without just bolding it, though I forget what it's called. If you have any lines in mind that you'd like to me to look up and post as examples, go ahead, though it'll be in Japanese. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Occassionally some do use bold, but most of the time, most novels use 『』 or 【】 parentheses for emphasis. Italics look intuitive for monologue (and yes the Japanese don't use them). I've used it right from the start in LOLH, because I saw it in Toradora. Some CSR pages I saw use parentheses, but '''Italics''' just feel right to me. I've not read enough Index to know how the author presents thoughts. But based on your description, my guess is those in parentheses are First-Person monologue, while those that aren't are narrator-reported thoughts. --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 04:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow, never thought they might be monologues. I normally associate monologues with just quotation marks since they're said aloud. Now I'm even more confused as to what to do/how to read, haha. --[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 06:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

== british vs american english ==

which english should we use: part of the project is in american english and part in british. It's not really that important to me which, but we should probably settle on one or the other. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 20:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

british will be better because they don`t use america--[[User:Cognitio|Cognitio]]

Do you mean to say that the story has English characters but no (few?) American characters? That makes some sense.--[[User:CarVac|CarVac]] 22:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

American English. See the [[Format_guideline#Spelling_and_Grammar|Format guideline]]. [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 13:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

That standard was established before we had multiple projects, and was left in. given that it was written for when we only had one project, should it be up to each project to decide which version?
the original line was this:
:* '''Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors & Readers the standard spelling lexicon for this project will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary]''' --13:18, 26 April 2006 by [[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]]

the current version in place is
:Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors and Readers, the standard spelling lexicon for this Wiki will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary] --5:37, 16 March 2007 by [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]]

which was changed as part of the original update altering the format page from a Haruhi only version to a version for all projects.

also, [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] stopped editing a year before this project was created: [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index&dir=prev&action=history here] vs [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Smidge204 here]. and thus the format page, in it's current form, would not have considered a project that might have reason to use british english.

As the current text came about due to a change regarding the style of the formatting page, and not as an actual policy decision, and as the party who made the original style decision is no longer on the wiki to ask, I argue that the statement currently on the format page can be overridden by the people working on a particular project, especially if there is reason beyond personal preference, as has been argued above.

thus we come back to the question: which would the contributors prefer for this project? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah stop arguing. As the one responsible for all of these, I'll take the charges (my job anyway, haven't updated the Supervisor tag)

I have already PMed Big Boss regarding this, so if he doesn't have any personal preference regarding this, I will make the decision.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

To quote the PM:

[quote="thelastguardian"]Well, if they are from England, of course they speak British English :p . Seems perfectly logical to me.[/quote]

There you have it. I'm going to introduce a new set of guidelines soon.

I'd let the England-based characters speak British English, but what about the narration? --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't like the idea of switching languages here and there so easily, feels weird to me because it's like the characters are in a different realm from the readers.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

== Dragon ==

who is this dragon in vol 15?

see volume 19 --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 07:08, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

== who's gonna translte volume 15 and 19? ==

can someone translate all of volume 15 and 19? the parts about shiage are just epic.

- Give it some time. JS06 is translating SS1. Volume 15 hasn't been translated dedicated-ly since December and Vol 19 was mostly translated by Flare in December-who is less active now. Volume 15 has a higher chance of being translated soon after SS1 is completed.

Well, I'm not letting anyone translate 15 until Joay himself says that he will allow others to take over.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:45, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

+ That's fine. Can you ask Joay if it is ok for others to take over vol 15?

Sounds like you are under the assumption that someone would do it if no Joay doesn't they might work the earlier novels... On a side note can someone post on the boards that activation email are down. I can't get the activation email and I can't post telling someone to look into that. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] 01:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Way ahead of you, check js06's talk page.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 02:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

== volume 23 and 24 ==

i heard its out already, volume 23 and 24. are you guys going to translate them?

Volume 23 will be called New Testament Volume 1. As for whether we will be translating it, you can bet on it once we get resources.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

==And Misaka Mikoto?==
Looks like the novel have the "New testament" series and you already put a Spoier about Touma (Dead), Accelerator and Shiage, but WHAT HAPPENED TO MISAKA? (and index but I relly do not care too much).

== SS Volume 2? ==

Just wondering: where in the timeline does SS Volume 2 take place? On the main page it's shown between Volumes 16 and 17, but on the Registration page it's shown between Volumes 19 and 20.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 00:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

== alternative language? ==

according to [[Category:Alternative Languages]], british english is an alternative language. does this mean this project is, or only that projects with a british english variant are alternative? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 19:28, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

== Terminology ==

In Volume 14 Chapter 3 Part 4, Tatemiya Saiji is referred to as "Substitute Pope". He was previously referred to in Volumes 7 and 11 as "substitute Supreme Pontiff" (likewise, Kanzaki Kaori is referred to as "Supreme Pontiff"). If the Japanese writing for these terms is the same in each instance, then it would be best to pick a standard translation and use that.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 05:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit:
Also "Acqua of the Back" (Volume 14 Epiloge) versus "Acqua of the Rear".

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 06:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Toaru Majutsu no Index

2011-03-06T05:31:07Z

Stiyl: /* Terminology */ new section

[http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1697525#post1697525 Illustration overview] reminder found in the project forum...

== How I enlist ? ==

I done reading to aru majutsu no index chapter 9. So i want to post it in here.
Is it possible? How can I post it anyway? Japanese to Indonesia. japanese to englist. - ([[User:Kili|Kili]])

Well, you could really just post it unless you want specific clearance from the moderators at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2148&start=195 project forum]. For the Indonesian one, you should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Indonesian" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Repose

actuality I already completed translate english. Not so hard to make it to indonesia. but if I done where and how post it ? - ([[User:Kili|Kili]])

The Indonesian version? For that you have to create the Alternate Language Project similar to other Alternate Language Projects with the complete translation of the Project Page (as a naming example: <nowiki>[[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]]</nowiki> ([[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]])), Registration Page, a thread in the Alternate Language Subforum in the Baka-Tsuki Forum and at least one translated Chapter to get the approval to continue the project. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 23:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

it so hard for to made but I will keep trying. I need time to study about it.

am i wrong ?

I've just joined up, and have registered on the TAMNI register page, is that good enough? I can't seem to get into the forum link. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Should be just fine, as I assume you'll be translating to English like the other things you've done. I suppose you don't need the forum unless you want to set up a project page up or want to discuss translation terms, but still, not sure why the links don't work for you. --[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

==Chapter 2: Doubt_Lovers.==
The link refer to "http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume5_'''Chapter1'''" So I think of them is wrong?
--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 12:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks EnigmaticRepose for fixing it!--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 00:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

==What the shit.==
Why would a translation project start at volume 12 instead of volume 1? Imagine watching the Lord of the Rings movie series for the first time in your life...except instead of watching it starting from the first movie, you skip to the middle of the 3rd movie during the seige of Gondor. And as you sit through the movie you keep going "Oh this sword guy is kinda cool whats his name? And who is this Sauron guy?".

you, whoever you are, are being horrendously rude and ungrateful for the fact that the translators (you seem pointed at [[user:Joay|Joay]] in particular) not only translate these novels, they do it for free. Besides that, volumes 1 through 6 are covered by the anime, and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index_light_novels] has synopses of all the novels. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Also since the translators have the power, they can decide what they like to translate, so if you could translate as well you could start with volume 1 if you like it... or with chapter x in volume y ;) So if you dont cant and dont like it you dont have to read it. I am gratful for that what we have, so should you too if you like to read more of those otherwise unobtainable unreadable volumes. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 08:34, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

hmm, now that volume 7 and 9 are translated and volume 10 is being translated, i'd like to ask if there is a specific reason that volume 8 was skipped.? It doesn't really matter though, since i was just wondering if maybe the story in 8 takes place in a different time than 7->9. other than that, i'm fine with waiting, since you're all (yeah, you translators ^_^ ) doing a fantastic job at translating this so far. keep up the good work.
oh yeah, and... Ganbare!--[[User:AzraRillian|-AzraRillian - Transcend The Sin - "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body." C.S. Lewis]] 03:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

===Took me five months to even notice this, sorry...===

The reason why I did Volumes 9 and 10 before volume 8 was basically because of a request (the first guy who PMed me when I worked on this project asked me whether I can do Volume 9 first. So, sorry...?

And to the guy who has been complaining about Volume 1 not being translated first, well, no point talking about it now when out of a sudden, there are three guys working on volume 1 now (I'm really, really glad to have other people share the workload). Like what [[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] said, the anime has pretty much covered most of the important aspects, and since there's a sizeable fandom of it that can provide all sorts of information, you're not really in the dark regarding what has happened. The 'Lord of the Rings' idea doesn't really work since you would have most likely gone about trying to find out what's going on in order to answer the question of 'what's going on?' Or did you not even bother looking for it?

Well, instead of complaining, you might as well do something about it if you can. Orders are nothing if the actions are not done, you know. We're not entitled to do this for you, we're not even paid to do this. We're doing this only because we want to. We translators here are like Kamijo Touma, we don't have a reason to do things, we just do it.

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

== What tense to use? ==

So, after reading some chapters of the seventh volume I would like to ask a question. What tense would you use in descriptions? Right now I’m doing some edits on the translated texts but there is always this one thing I’m tripping over. In this volume, and most likely also in the others, we have a third person narrator. In this case you would normally write the descriptions or narrations in the past tense, right? That’s what I would do at least and is commonly done in the most English novels. But as it is, there are some differences in the Asian and the English writing and that includes the used tenses. Because of these differences the translator decided to use the present tense in the above-named cases (most of the time at least). Of course, this isn’t a mistake, but I often feel like it would be one. Perhaps I’m just too used reading the past tense in descriptions but to me, with some exceptions, it often feels awkward when I read some of them in present tense. I would like to get some more opinions on this matter. Is it just me who has this problem or do you think the same as me? [[user:AJS90|AJS90]] 21 March 2010

I've really just been using present tense for everything, which I based off of how the translators worded it. It's a bit weird for the narrator to do so, but eh, I'm used to it already. ...On a side note, it's nice not being the only editor anymore. ~EnigmaticRepose

Yeah, I've been using present tense for my edits, too- but only because there might be a convention in light novels regarding it that I'm unaware of. Better safe than sorry, you know? I MIGHT try a past-tense sweep edit for second opinions, but only after I'm done with my ongoing ones.--Tactician J 03:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== About translating. ==

well to be honest, i dont know all that much japanese so i cant really translate, i however have atlas, so the question is can i use atlas as a raw draft and then start editing from there?

another dumb question i have is if there's a reason why the novels are listed only up to volume 13? because i can find them easily on hongfire or emule if anyone needs them.

No, atlas will just lead to shit translations and cause more trouble then what's it worth - response

Unfortunately, translation software will normally make it harder for anyone to translate. You can use it from time to time to check some harder words, but the best is if you have knowledge of Japanese, Chinese, or Korean (Correct me on this one if I'm wrong.) and translate it manually, since it's hard for anyone to start working on it if they don't know what the text is about in the first place. ~Teh Ping

You could try it, but I would wonder and call you very lucky if the outcome isnt gibberish --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:23, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== I need illustrations for Volume 10 ==

Exactly what's written on it. Would the uploader kindly upload the illustrations of the other volumes? Many thanks in advance.~Teh Ping

would it be enough a link of megaupload volumes 1-16 and with the illustration? anyway heres the link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2AS0PZD7
-ark

== Pic translation ==
Ah, could someone translate the pics too, if there is on them something to translate, please? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 05:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Most the pictures just have quotes from the novel, with additional tiny descriptions, like 'Academy City Tokiwadai Student' or 'English Purist "Church of Necessary Evil (Necessarius)' and the like, so you aren't missing much. It's really just a fit it in the context after you read it, as they're supposed to be teasers for the story anyway (which is why they're placed in the beginning).

Hm, I thought it would be nice - like we have it for Sword Art Online especially since we dont have translations for all volumes, so some teasers would be nice ;). Have meant only pics like those: [[:Image:Index v01 002-003.jpg|Image 1]]; [[:Image:Index v01 004-005.jpg|Image 2]]; [[:Image:Index v01 006-007.jpg|Image 3]] --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 10:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

== Just a slight concern. ==

As Joay and I are busy with our own stuff, I suppose that there should be some sort of a Project Supervisor around to keep check of certain stuff. There will be updates in the future, as Twi will continue to translate this series (hopefully), but I hope that there's someone to keep this series in check, since it's no longer a 'small' project anymore (I guess, since YMMV). ~Teh Ping

== Spanish section request ==

I would like to start a spanish section for the novels.--[[Special:Contributions/190.41.2.140|190.41.2.140]] 22:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

You should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Spanish" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up. Registering may also be a good idea. An Indonesian one was also set up, so you could use that as a reference. --EnigmaticRepose

== I'll try to translate a bit ==

Currently my japanese is iffy at best, but as i'm studying it might as well give it a shot.I'll try to pick up the 1st chapter of volume one (no one's doing it right?). I'm asking here first as well, i don't know if i can manage it yet.
If i manage to somehow not embarrass myself too much doing that i'll register, and work on the rest of the volume.
Again, i can't be sure i'll manage it so... best try it out first then see.--[[User:AADragon|AADragon]] 16:35, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

No one would say something against it, just feel free to ge ahead, but best would be to register the chapter before, even if it is not very probable that some other translator would translate it anytime soon, but wonder happens sometime, so just to be safe ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Thanks for your work!!==
Glad to see translated this novel series by Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for working so hard and fast.
At this point, I can say that the translators will surpass Index II(by JCStaff) in covering the novels :)

another fan of Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for all of the great work ^^)/

== Translations? ==

I'm new here, and I want to translate some stuff.
I was reading the chinese version and randomly decided to translate V1C4 from Chinese to English.

Do I need some sort of clearance? Or can I just go ahead and upload my stuff (especially since my translation quality is most definitely sub-par)?

===Go ahead and just upload it===

The editors will be helping out with the language. I'll also help you proofread it if you want.

Over here, there's no need for any bureaucratic red tape. Any translator can just upload their stuff here, so you can just upload it.

EDIT: Still having a bit of trouble with the formatting, garr...

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:51, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Some Question ==

Er.... So, I already translated about three chapter and half from the 2nd Volume...
and the question is... How do I upload it? Any clues?

===Here's what you need===

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Format_guideline#Wiki_Editing_Tips

1. First, go to the volume that you want to upload.

2. Do you see the edit button on the top right hand corner? Click it.

3. Look at the 'Internal link' section, that is how you're going to add hyperlinks. (You can look at the other volumes for reference)

4. If you did it right, the words should be in red, click on it.

5. Now, you should be in a new page. Click on the 'create' button at the top.

6. Upload the text that you have already translated. (Make sure to press 'enter' once after every paragraph so that it's easier to
read.)

7. Next, the headings. At the wiki editing tips page, look at the 'headings' section (well, duh).

8. If you see the format used on all B-T texts, you'll probably get an idea of how to do it. (Just copy what they do.)

9. For pictures, it's under 'thumbnail image', the 'picture' would be from the illustrations of the volume that's available here. If I want a picture from say 'Volume 1 page 031', the format would be <nowiki>[[Image:Index_v01_031.jpg|thumb]]</nowiki>

10. For a footer, just go to any completed chapter here, copy the scripts for the footer, and make the necessary edits.

If you need any more help, you can pm me.

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I wonder what happened with this translator and translation... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

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==VOLUME 11==

english Volume 11 has been sabed over by the spanish version. Any chance of recovery?

===Erm, excuse me, but you lost me there===

Is there anything wrong? Since when do we have a Spanish section?

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

----
Not sure, but I think they're talking about all the chapter titles being in gratuitous Italian.

----
Actually, check the scan of the [http://img55.imageshack.us/f/009xf5.jpg/ original table of contents]. You'll see that it's actually in said gratuitous Italian. (This may be incorrect, but I doubt it) --[[User:MerrickXasis|MerrickXasis]]

----

Oh that, that's what you guys meant. Yes, it's supposed to be in gratuitous Italian, since the plot setting is in Italy (Before you guys start blaming me for spoiling it, the prologue of Volume 11 will be uploaded in 4 hours.)--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:21, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

==To Aru Majutsu No Index Volume 3==

Can You work on volume 3. Sorry for asking, because I love this arc. --anonymous

the sisters arc is great, but, we have it already in two separate manga and the anime. new content would be my preference. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 15:00, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, we'll see how it goes. Most likely, I'll leave it as training for some new translator. I'm planning to be more of a drill sergeant for these new translators, so, get ready.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I know about the anime and manga but I love to read more. But anyway Thank^^. I will wait for anyone to translate it.

==Consensus: Past or Present?==
'''Please Vote [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 poll]'''
----
With six active translators and three editors, this project needs to come to an agreement regarding tense usage. Do we stick to present tense, or do we shift to past tense?--Tactician J 10:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

For me, it's more of past for what just happened and present for what happens during the sequence. I also use a 'present future tense'. Next vote?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm all for present as usual, but as I've said before, I can work with either. I get more attached to present tense stories, anyway. If we do end up agreeing on present tense, we might want to put it somewhere on the main page, and even in commentary tags by the editor list for extra insurance, as odds are potential editors/translators don't check the talk page until someone actually uses it. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

I've only just realised/remembered there's a talk page here ^.^; I'm voting for past tense as that's what I'm used to, and that from what I can gather from the '''official''' Chinese translated Index Novels I have on hand right now they use past tense as well. It'll be easier for me to work in past tense. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:12, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== Volume 14 ==

I know this must be annoying being asked this but could someone work on doing Volume 14?

I don't think anyone is doing this at the moment, volumes 1,SS1,15, & 22 seem to be under active or semi-active translation, but volume 14 is probably coming soon. admitedly, it's just a guess, but as it will be the first volume not in the first season untranslated after SS1 is done, it will probably get done soon. If you can translate, however, feel free to start, no one has registered for it. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

== Churches ==

To the translators and editors: both the anglican church and russian orthodox church exists :[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England],[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church] exist. they are not made up by the author. (technically the anglican church's proper name is the 'Church of England', and is the leader of the 'Anglican Communion'). I'm quite certain also that the Roman Catholic Church exists also, being a lapsed member. The Amakusa Church is made up though: it was named after an island of japan where the heads of executed christians were buried in 1637 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakusa]. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't really know how to explain this, but here's a post by an AS user called Thirdlc, which I find to be very good in explaining it.

"The author uses coined words like 十字教, イギリス清教, ローマ正教 and ロシア成教, instead of actual words like キリスト教 (Christianity), 英国国教会 (Church of England), ローマ・カトリック (Roman Catholic Church), ロシア正教 (Russian Orthodox Church).

I don't like it that those are directly referred, ignoring the author's intention.

Looking at these names, it's possible that the author just wants to make them end with "seikyou" and there is not much meaning in 清.

イギリス清教 (Igirisu [B]seikyou[/B]), ローマ正教 (Roma [B]seikyou[/B]), ロシア成教 (Roshia [B]seikyou[/B]), 天草式十字凄教 (Amakusa-shiki juuji [B]seikyou[/B]) "

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*No hand facepalm...*

Well, to any editor, I'm going to need your help here.

For all the 'Amakusa Catholics' change them into the 'Amakusa-style Church'.

Anyone got any other way to translate the rest, or should we stick to the terms given in volume 7?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah--[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

That could need a [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 guideline discussion]... ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 17:01, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I think this needs to be translated consistently between the volumes. A guideline discussion seems necessary. Just because Vol. 7 was translated first doesn't mean that it's done appropriately (I haven't even looked, so couldn't venture an opinion). Likewise, I would hesitate to buy into a 'canon' translation by a Japanese author - church names tend to be archaic English, for one thing, which is not well covered by Japanese style English education.

My take, now that I see some of the source: 教 seems to be used in the way that we use ''teaching,'' ''rite,''(compare 'rites' of Freemasonry) or even (religious) ''tradition'' in English. So maybe translate イギリス清教 as 'English Puritan rite,' 'English Puritan church,' or 'English Puritan teaching.' By extension, that would lead to 'Roman Orthodox rite'/'Roman Orthodox church' and 'Russian Institutional rite/church' (I'm having a tough time translating the on reading of 成 into something that isn't 'orthodox' in this context.) Likewise, 凄教 translates pretty well as 'cult' for me. Did a little googling and found this page [http://toarumajutsunoindex.wikia.com/wiki/Amakusa-Style_Remix_of_Church] which seems to agree with my 'cult' definition. So the 'Amakusa cult.'

By analogy, It seems obvious that the author is ''suggesting'' real churches, but is very careful not to use their common names in Japanese, I would guess both to avoid angry adherents of the real churches and to help with the alternate universe separation of realities. For example, ロシア成教 is practically synonymous with the meaning of 'Russian Orthodox Church' but just happens to not be the way it is written in Japanese. It seems that we would want a similar obfuscation in the translation for the same reasons. -[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 16:58, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I just want to give my two cents to agree with the character 教 itself translating to cult. It's used quite commonly in Chinese text to such effect. However, I believe the only problem in doing so would be that cults in the English language are usually seen as heretical and some organizations might not fit that light. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:30, 17 November 2010

Well, I should be resting, but since this is important, I'll give an answer.

The so-called canon translations aren't invented by me or Joay or any other translator. When I said Volume 7, I meant the chapter titles of volume 7. The names on the main page, they're canon, we didn't do anything except removing the japanese text. Of course, if we're to go by our own common knowledge, cult would be the better term, but it'll feel a lot less familiar.
 
 

Why are these religions named as 'cults'? As someone who has Chinese as my first language, I haven't came across something like the character '教' being equivalent to that... (Or I just can't remember it - can anyone give some examples?)
But yeah, in canon these Churches are for all intents and purposes 'religions' and not 'cults' as the English speakers understand it.
Maybe we can make some sort of 'need-to-know' translation notes for readers on the Index Novels' main page if this issue becomes a serious one? Just putting it out there the Churches in this universe is not the ones equivalent to Real-Life's ones. In the Official Chinese Translated Volume 1 of TAMNI (pg30, next to a illustration page of Index) I have on hand there's a Note saying all churches mentioned in this series are made-up ones by the author.
Also, I can vouch for the English spellings being correct (I have a hard copy of the Official Chinese translated Index Novel Vol7) given in Vol7 of the Churches are as the person above me has said - so I think what we have right now should stay. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 05:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Have you read the Jing Yong novels? Condor heroes etc? The Ming Cult gets referenced quite often -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 07:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Its Japanese then maybe the meaning of '教' is different between Japanese and Chinese? (Rikaichan says for that "teach", "faith", "doctrine") And if the Churches are realy made up by the author shouldnt then イギリス清教, ローマ正教, ロシア成教 and 天草式十字凄教 be British Puritan, Roman Orthodox, Russian 成(?) and Amakusa(n) 凄 (? unorthodox) faith or doctrine instead of Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox Church? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

No no, Kanji used by Japanese have basically the same meaning in Chinese. In Chinese, that character does indeed mean teach, doctrine, etc. It depends on how it is used. It is really difficult to draw meaning from one character, it depends on how it is used along with other characters before one can drawn meaning from it. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

---

I haven't came across those examples you (Snorca) mentioned, but from what I looked up in a Chinese -> English dictionary (Granted, this particular reference book is from 1994 so it's more than a decade old...) the character '教' doesn't have the meaning of cult... and as far as I know from other sources the Chinese term for 'cult' is '邪教', the characters can literally be translated into 'evil religion'. The character '教' alone doesn't mean 'cult' but just 'religion' I think.

But precise meaning/s of the words aside, IMO for all intents and purposes these 'religious organisations', for a lack of better term right now, are similar in structure to real-life churches, even if they're not named the same. These organisations are churches in canon (in terms of influence, history and other such aspects), not cults, and should probably be called as 'churches'. And to prevent mixing up with Real-Life versions maybe some other name can be introduced, but with the word 'church' included? Or like I suggested earlier we can just note the differences between the ToaruVerse Churches and the Real-Life Churches on the TAMNI main page?

That reminds me, the novels calls 'Christianity' (for a lack of better term to describe the religion that is born from the death of the Son of God is called , the name 'Jesus' is never mentioned in the novels and is always refered to as the 'Son of God') the 'Religion of the Cross', ie '十字教', instead of the usual Chinese version '基督教'. Maybe we should change that in our translations as well somehow? --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 21:57, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, as I've said, the word cult will have problems because it has a negative connotation in it based on how the mass media portrays it. Not all cults are evil though, religions would refuse to be classified as a cult, but in essence of the word, they technically are cults. Cults are basically a group with religious beliefs, but are somewhat considered strange. It had been given a negative image due to how most religions (not gonna name the most obvious one) really, really hate how people stray from their practices.

Anyway, the word church doesn't necessarily mean Christianity. It simply means a sanctuary. For example, the infamous cult church I used to live close by: The Church of Scientology. There are many other cults out there with churches but lack popularity.

Of course, how we use these words are up to the editors and translators. I really have no opinion on what we use, just trying to provide some insight as to how those words are technically acceptable. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Because I was the first one to use the word 'cult' I had better clarify what I meant: I used the word 'cult' '''only''' in reference to the kanji combination 凄教. While all of the church/religion names end with kanji that can be pronounced as "seikyou", the actual kanji used are DIFFERENT between the different religions. Only the ''Amakusa seikyou'' has the kanji 凄教 for "seikyou." 凄 translates as 'uncanny, weird, threatening, horrible,' and 教 is the 'teaching, faith, doctrine' kanji we see at the end of all these word. 'Weird/horrible faith' is pretty close to 'cult.'

By this reasoning, '''only''' the Amakusa group would be called a 'cult.' As I wrote above, the others would be something like "Russian Institutional Church," "English Puritan Rite/Church" and "Roman Orthodox Church." --[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 14:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

凄 also means ''wonderful, great, terrific, tremendous, real''. --[[User:El Phoenix|El Phoenix]] 12:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'll make this clear. Here are the original chapter titles of volume 7:

* Prologue: 行動開始　The_Page_is_Opened.
* Chapter 1: 学園都市　Science_Worship.
* Chapter 2: ローマ正教　The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
* Chapter 3: イギリス清教　Anglican_Church.
* Chapter 4: 天草式十字凄教　AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
* Epilogue: 行動終了　The_Page_is_Shut. --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Main Page Format ==
'''Please Vote [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3562 poll]'''
----

Okay, let's clear some things up. Do we want to keep the author's bizarre English, underscores and all? I think we should, since he uses symbols in the majority of the titles, and they were originally removed due to someone mistaking it for bad formatting.

And how do we want to format the chapter titles? I was thinking keeping the two titles, separated by two spaces, the first title ending in a period and the second being italicized. I've made my own test version and have viewed it via Show Preview, but because *20 edits later by others*, I never really got the chance to apply it. I can still apply it and all we would have to do is undo the revision if anyone agrees with my thoughts.

So, ideas, opinions? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Before I like to start on this. I'll like to emphasize that I won't tolerate any format changes, none, unless we all agree to it. To both The Shadow , I understand what you're trying to do, but how would you like it if someone is to take help you do something, yet without your permission, and not the way you wanted it? It's the same thing. And to Suzuku, I have to be blunt here, that was really rude. You should have talked it out before taking action. I'll beseech to everyone, not just the two parties involved, that if you want to carry out any format changes like tenses and the like, please discuss it with us first before you do anything.

Now, onto the main point. I feel that either we leave if as it was, or we do the original titles that has the Japanese versions. The translations of the titles may not be universally accepted, unlike the original, so it would be difficult at times to reconcile with the translations, like here:

* Novel Illustrations
* Prologue: Begin Action — The_Page_is_Opened.
* Chapter 1: Academy City — Science_Worship.
* Chapter 2: Roman Orthodox Church — The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
* Chapter 3: British Puritan Church — Anglican_Church.
* Chapter 4: Amakusa-style Church of Distinct Doctrines — AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
* Epilogue: End Action — The_Page_is_Shut.
* Afterword

I'm in favour of the status quo, or even better, if we can leave the original Japanese titles.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I think you guys need to request someone with supervisor rights to become your supervisor and serve as an arbitrator? --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 03:52, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

From my understanding the original novels, for each chapter, have a japanese title and a english title (the one with the underscores). If this is the case, my preference would be for both to be present, as above. Admittedly, it looks pretty odd for volume 7, but it looks like there the difficulty would be differentiating between religion as organization vs. religion as belief system. Also, sorry for contributing to edit war. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

While I'm fine with the either of the older formats (just "Science_Worship./Science Worship.", no translated titles), will the Japanese titles work out since this a translation project? Yeah, 5–10 passersby will understand them, but the majority won't. And the titles look nice on the contents pages because they're neatly separated into columns, whereas since the title translations can get fairly long-winded, it makes it somewhat difficult to make it look consistent and not have a huge amount of unnecessary space between a title. Though we could also romanize them instead, like:

*Prologue: Kōdō Kaishi.  ''The_Page_is_Opened.''

That would make some romanization difficult, though (especially if your knowledge of the language is half-assed like mine), and would slightly be better than just right-out Japanese characters. And Teh Ping, were you in favor for the original English lines with the underscores or the spaces?

And just for a side-note, the Russian project of Index has both titles, though the translator keeps the English titles as-is, most likely because he's a Japanese to Russian translator (must make Kamachi's heavy use of English-oriented furigana a pain).

Also, Larethian, we've gotten quite far without the supposedly necessary supervisor or admin, so why start now? It's actually sort of surprising that Index hasn't had one volunteer yet. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Well, it's good that you guys can arbitrate among yourself. On closer look now, I see that the edit war is caused by casual editors rather than editors of the project. Speaking of the supervisors, I don't even see them around much? I know Vaelis, who has admin rights, is actively lurking.:) --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 06:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I also think that you should keep the two titles: the first title translated into English and the weird English title of the Author. The current version looks ok but you could italicize the second title. — [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 08:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, there's too few translators for us to sort ourselves out -_-, so we didn't need a supervisor up till now. However, if there's a need to have one, seeing how it goes now with all the debates here, I'll volunteer for it.

As for the author's English, I say we keep the underscores. Honestly, I prefer the Japanese titles for the first title instead of the translated ones. Maybe we should get Tact to chip in his thoughts on this, since he's the proofreader here. Will do a poll when I get home, or if we really can't decide, I'll get Herald of Meridian to post a poll on the wikia.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

When I said Japanese, I meant the original hiragana, katakana, kanji and the likes, not romaji.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 10:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I think Teh Ping's suggestion of retaining the original script for the chapter 7 titles makes the most sense-it's exactly what we have chosen to do in translating the chapter titles of the manga (Hoshi no Furu Machi) I'm editing. Yes, keep the underscores and all. I don't really see a problem with using JIS romaji in place of the katakana/hiragana/kanji, but I don't see an advantage to it either.

My concern is the translation of these terms in the body text - it needs to be consistent within and between volumes, and I believe it should closely mirror the meaning of the hiragana/katakana/kanji in the body text, rather than the author's somewhat engrishy attempt at translation himself in the chapter titles. This is with the goal of emulating the Japanese reader's experience as closely as possible. -- [[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 15:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

We have created a [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3562 poll] regarding that in the wiki!

@Teh_Ping I dont think you should translate 教 as church if also 会 (as 教会) would be needed to become the word for church...

Also I would prefer an English translation (since I cant read Kanji (only with Rikachan) nor understand the Romaji transcription, but would also like to know the name of the title) with the original hidden in <nowiki>  </nowiki> and with the "subtitle" in ''italic'' separated with a normal dash (-) and not a "& mdash ;"(—), but without the underlines but rather with spaces (but that is only because I think it looks strange with those underlines). --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 17:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

My view is that keep the Japanese version of the chapter titles and give the English translation of that on the chapter page itself, even if only for the reason it looks better on the contents page that way (among others). As for the underscores and other things in the author's English, I suggest we keep it the same as how it is shown - if necessary change it on the chapter page, but leave it as it is on the main page. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 21:36, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

What would you think if it was formated like that:
----
===Example===
'''<nowiki>===Volume 3===</nowiki>'''
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Illustrations|Novel Illustrations]]
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Prologue|Prologue: Radio Noise]]
** Level2
*Chapter 1: Imagine Breaker
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Chapter1|Level0(and_More)]]
* Radio Noise
**Level2(Product_Model)

----
(Prologue example 1; Chap 1 example 2; Chap 2 example 3 - but I think "chapter" should be kept) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Beyond the inconsistent link locations, I'm not in favor of having each chapter split up over two lines, it seems that it could be confusing, especially to people new to the site, and it doesn't look as nice to me. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

As said that are three different examples. The Prologue is example 1, chapter 1 is example 2 and chapter 2 is example 3 - its just another suggestion instead of the long chapter titles in one line... Of those examples I would prefer example 2, which would mostly be like its done with some MariMite chapters. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 06:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, building off of Darklor's example, here's what the idea I suggested in the forums would look like:
----
===Example 2===
'''<nowiki>===Volume 1===</nowiki>'''
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Illustrations|Novel Illustrations]]
*'''Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy/幻想殺しの少年のお話'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Prologue|The_Imagine-Breaker.]]
*'''Chapter 1: The Magician Lands in the Town/魔術師は塔に降り立つ'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 1|FAIR,_Occasionally_GIRL.]]
*'''Chapter 2: The Conjurer Bestows Demise/奇術師は終焉を与える'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 2|The_7th-Edge.]]
*'''Chapter 3: The Grimoire Peacefully Smiles/魔道書は静かに微笑む'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 3|Forget_me_not.]]
*'''Chapter 4: The Retiring Magician Chooses the End/退魔師は終わりを選ぶ'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 4|(N)Ever_Say_Good_bye.]]
*'''Epilogue: The Conclusion of the Index of Prohibited Books Girl/禁書目録の少女の結末'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Epilogue|Index-Librorum-Prohibitorum.]]

----
So what does everyone think? It's certainly unique, but considering the chapter title scheme of the Index novel is unique, it fits. ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks great: but would it possibly be better to have whitespace on both sides of the '/' mark? Like:

*'''Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy / 幻想殺しの少年のお話'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Prologue|The_Imagine-Breaker.]]

Just a minor suggestion. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 01:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

It's not a noticeable change, but I don't mind. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

First off I'd like to apologize to Teh Ping and everyone else. Like you said it probably would have been better to start off this discussion before sparking the whole little edit war that went on. In regards to the discussion itself I think your suggestion looks rather nice Suzuku, especially with Sagantsu's minor tweak. Maybe it would also be good to add a little note somewhere on the main page explaining how Kamachi formats the chapter titles so people can see where each part comes from. [[User:The Shadow|The Shadow]] 04:58, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Holy canoli at these great walls of text! In any case, I quite like Suzuku's suggestion (with Saganatsu's addendum). --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==Awards==
2011 is correct? Because at the moment its only 2010... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's correct, as the listing is for the entire year of 2011, which is why the polling is done at the end of 2010. ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

While we're on it, I tweaked the format for the award section a bit. Any objections/complaints? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Short Synopsis==
I replaced it with an edited version of the wiki's. Yes, I realize the old one was also just a more cut up version of the wiki's, but the English wasn't as well worded and it looked a bit sparse. Objections? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Header==
So I added one. Thoughts? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't see any problems, and no objections to one personally. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 01:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I would say bold would be better for the first "To Aru Majutsu no Index". --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 04:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I tried that, but it came off looking weird, so I stuck with italics. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:38, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

== chapter title Vol2 Ch3 ==

I don't think that the chapter title for Volume 2 Chapter 3 is correct: it's an exact copy of Volume 1 Chapter 3, in both the english and translated japanese. could someone check this? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:30, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

No, it's correct. The chapter title uses the exact same Kanji and English title as the title of Volume 1 Chapter 3. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

=="To Aru" Majutsu no Index==
Wikipedia recently agreed to have the wiki page on this series be titled "Toaru Majutsu no Index". Should we follow their decision? --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

would be alot of work: main page, registration page, one formatting page, upto 10 pages per volume (4 chapters, one epilogue, one war report, one declaration of..., an afterword, a full text page, and a illustrations page)= upper limit of 243 pages needing moving, updating the links on all of them, updating the links on the sidebar... . If someone is willing to do all that, I'm all for it. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 00:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't particularly mind either way, though I do think Toaru is the correct version myself. I don't know how formatting links work for the server admin, so it might be easier to just do it next the B-T server randomly goes down. Again. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

== Underscores ==

Was there a decision or two I missed somewhere? why did [[User:Kraft|Kraft]] take out all the underscores on the chapter titles? was under impression that they were to be left in. also, why added the periods at the end? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 21:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

From the looks of it, Kraft has been re-editing the titles applying punctuation rules and probably assumed the underscores were a formatting issue without knowing that the current format was agreed upon by the editors and supervisors of the project (I don't think they realized that was how it was meant to be). It would be nice if the entire series could be locked only to have edits approved by a supervisor or editor to prevent drive-by editing on a project of such a large scale. --[[User:Lighthalzen|Lighthalzen]] 22:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Dunno, but the ending period on the translated line helps distinguish the two titles. And I see he did it on the chapter pages themselves, but the decision was for the main page itself. The problem with the supervisor–editor thing is, we don't have a specific supervisor for the Index project, nor do any of them seem to frequent enough for all the updates we make to the main page (the percentage updates). We also don't have an editor with actual editor rights anyway (though I wish Tact would frequent more to get it). Besides, the translators would need the similar abilities just to create a page. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

==Inserting hidden page numbers into the text?==
Is it possible for the translators to mark where the pages start and end? That would enable me to look up the original lines more easily, and I'd like to try making some nice-looking PDFs down the road... --Tactician J 14:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I could go through eventually and help with that if I stop being lazy and when the tense issue is resolved. Anyway, I did a small preview of how it would look on parts 9–10 of volume 16's chapter 1. Basically, lines can be cut off randomly in the middle of the sentence (or words for that matter), so don't feel too reliant on the original formatting. Not to mention that every other page has the two titles for the chapter. And out of curiosity, how would you do the illustrations? Some colored ones have three-page-spreads and seeing an illustration after the part it happens in the text just isn't the same as seeing it as you turn the page, so would you use a two-page style, two-pages for just illustrations with the text page, or just one page at a time? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] 14:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Text pages get single pages, but two-/three-page illustration spreads will be fused together, more or less. --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

==Thought processes==
Just wondering if I am the only one that's slightly uncomfortable with how thoughts are differentiated from the rest of the text in different ways. It seems that the most common methods of indicating thoughts are either in (parenthesis), ''italics'', or ''(italics and parenthesis)''. Perhaps we can come to some kind of a standard for this... or is there a difference as to how certain thought processes are? (I don't have access to the Japanese text or cultural knowledge to know...) -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

In the original texts, most thoughts are in parentheses but some also aren't, just like how most spoken dialogue is in quotes but some isn't. English novels also do it (the quoteless dialogues, though thoughts don't have to be emphasized with italics or parentheses), but I think it's more of a slight difference to not feel so abusive with them during dialogue/thought scenes. The italics is just something we started doing (I don't remember why?) and aren't in the original format. I don't think Japanese use italics at all, but they do have a way to emphasize certain parts of a line without just bolding it, though I forget what it's called. If you have any lines in mind that you'd like to me to look up and post as examples, go ahead, though it'll be in Japanese. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Occassionally some do use bold, but most of the time, most novels use 『』 or 【】 parentheses for emphasis. Italics look intuitive for monologue (and yes the Japanese don't use them). I've used it right from the start in LOLH, because I saw it in Toradora. Some CSR pages I saw use parentheses, but '''Italics''' just feel right to me. I've not read enough Index to know how the author presents thoughts. But based on your description, my guess is those in parentheses are First-Person monologue, while those that aren't are narrator-reported thoughts. --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 04:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow, never thought they might be monologues. I normally associate monologues with just quotation marks since they're said aloud. Now I'm even more confused as to what to do/how to read, haha. --[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 06:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

== british vs american english ==

which english should we use: part of the project is in american english and part in british. It's not really that important to me which, but we should probably settle on one or the other. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 20:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

british will be better because they don`t use america--[[User:Cognitio|Cognitio]]

Do you mean to say that the story has English characters but no (few?) American characters? That makes some sense.--[[User:CarVac|CarVac]] 22:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

American English. See the [[Format_guideline#Spelling_and_Grammar|Format guideline]]. [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 13:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

That standard was established before we had multiple projects, and was left in. given that it was written for when we only had one project, should it be up to each project to decide which version?
the original line was this:
:* '''Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors & Readers the standard spelling lexicon for this project will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary]''' --13:18, 26 April 2006 by [[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]]

the current version in place is
:Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors and Readers, the standard spelling lexicon for this Wiki will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary] --5:37, 16 March 2007 by [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]]

which was changed as part of the original update altering the format page from a Haruhi only version to a version for all projects.

also, [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] stopped editing a year before this project was created: [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index&dir=prev&action=history here] vs [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Smidge204 here]. and thus the format page, in it's current form, would not have considered a project that might have reason to use british english.

As the current text came about due to a change regarding the style of the formatting page, and not as an actual policy decision, and as the party who made the original style decision is no longer on the wiki to ask, I argue that the statement currently on the format page can be overridden by the people working on a particular project, especially if there is reason beyond personal preference, as has been argued above.

thus we come back to the question: which would the contributors prefer for this project? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah stop arguing. As the one responsible for all of these, I'll take the charges (my job anyway, haven't updated the Supervisor tag)

I have already PMed Big Boss regarding this, so if he doesn't have any personal preference regarding this, I will make the decision.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

To quote the PM:

[quote="thelastguardian"]Well, if they are from England, of course they speak British English :p . Seems perfectly logical to me.[/quote]

There you have it. I'm going to introduce a new set of guidelines soon.

I'd let the England-based characters speak British English, but what about the narration? --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't like the idea of switching languages here and there so easily, feels weird to me because it's like the characters are in a different realm from the readers.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

== Dragon ==

who is this dragon in vol 15?

see volume 19 --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 07:08, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

== who's gonna translte volume 15 and 19? ==

can someone translate all of volume 15 and 19? the parts about shiage are just epic.

- Give it some time. JS06 is translating SS1. Volume 15 hasn't been translated dedicated-ly since December and Vol 19 was mostly translated by Flare in December-who is less active now. Volume 15 has a higher chance of being translated soon after SS1 is completed.

Well, I'm not letting anyone translate 15 until Joay himself says that he will allow others to take over.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:45, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

+ That's fine. Can you ask Joay if it is ok for others to take over vol 15?

Sounds like you are under the assumption that someone would do it if no Joay doesn't they might work the earlier novels... On a side note can someone post on the boards that activation email are down. I can't get the activation email and I can't post telling someone to look into that. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] 01:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Way ahead of you, check js06's talk page.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 02:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

== volume 23 and 24 ==

i heard its out already, volume 23 and 24. are you guys going to translate them?

Volume 23 will be called New Testament Volume 1. As for whether we will be translating it, you can bet on it once we get resources.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

==And Misaka Mikoto?==
Looks like the novel have the "New testament" series and you already put a Spoier about Touma (Dead), Accelerator and Shiage, but WHAT HAPPENED TO MISAKA? (and index but I relly do not care too much).

== SS Volume 2? ==

Just wondering: where in the timeline does SS Volume 2 take place? On the main page it's shown between Volumes 16 and 17, but on the Registration page it's shown between Volumes 19 and 20.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 00:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

== alternative language? ==

according to [[Category:Alternative Languages]], british english is an alternative language. does this mean this project is, or only that projects with a british english variant are alternative? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 19:28, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

== Terminology ==

In Volume 14 Chapter 3 Part 4, Tatemiya Saiji is referred to as "Substitute Pope". He was previously referred to in Volumes 7 and 11 as "substitute Supreme Pontiff" (likewise, Kanzaki Kaori is referred to as "Supreme Pontiff"). If the Japanese writing for these terms is the same in each instance, then it would be best to pick a standard translation and use that.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 05:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Toaru Majutsu no Index

2011-02-26T00:34:59Z

Stiyl: /* SS Volume 2? */ new section

Toaru Majutsu no Index:Names and Terminology Guideline

2011-02-14T07:24:33Z

Stiyl: /* Academy City */ Added entry for Oyafune Suama.

='''To Aru Majutsu no Index'''=
Note: This page is merely a list of unique/semi-unique terms and names for translators and editors to maintain consistency. If anything significant needs to be done such as any large additions, disputes to listed translations to a term or name or formatting issues, please feel free to post them at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 To Aru Majutsu no Index - Names and Terminology] for discussion and review.

==Format Standard==
===Titles===
*Untranslated Chapter titles keeps their original title if they're known.
*The English part of the original title keeps its underscores at all times and in all versions. 

===Narrative Tenses===

Translators are allowed to use whichever tenses they need, but editors are to ensure that the text is mostly in present tense, with past tenses used when necessary

===Style of English===
In lieu of the setting, all text are to be in British English (unless there are Americans in the story, which so far, there aren't any yet.)

===Names===
====Academy City====

*Kamijou Touma - The main protagonist of Toaru Majutsu no Index.
*Misaka Mikoto (御坂美琴) - A heroine of Toaru Majutsu no Index. Stars in her own spin-off series, Toaru Kagaku no Choudenjibou.
*Tsukuyomi Komoe (月詠小萌) - Kamijou Touma's homeroom teacher. Known as one of the 7 great mysteries of the school for her child-like appearance and behaviour. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Aogami Pierce - Kamijou Touma's class representative. His name literally means Blue hair piercings guy. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Heaven Canceler - A frog-faced doctor of Academy City introduced in Volume 1.
*Fukiyose Seiri (吹寄制理) - A female classmate of Touma's.
*Yomikawa Aiho (黄泉川愛穂) - A female gym teacher at Touma's school. She also works for Anti-Skill.
*Yoshikawa Kikyou (芳川桔梗) - A female scientist involved with research projects at Academy City.
*Uiharu Kazari (初春飾利) - A female middle school student and a member of Judgment Branch #177.
*Oyafune Suama (親船素甘) - A female math teacher at Touma's school. She is obsessed with being beautiful. Introduced in Volume 14.

====The Churches====

=====Roman Catholic Church=====

*Aureolus Izzard - An alchemist formerly of the Roman Catholic Church introduced in Volume 2.
*Orsola Aquinas - A Roman Catholic nun introduced in Volume 7.
*Agnese Sanctis - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7.
*Lucia - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7.
*Oriana Thompson - A magician working as a mercenary, introduced in Volume 9.
*Lidvia Lorenzetti (リドヴィア＝ロレンツェッディ) - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 9.

=====Necessarius=====

*Stiyl Magnus - A magician specializing in rune magic. Friend of Kanzaki and Index since before the novel. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Kanzaki kaori - A magician who rejected the Amakusa Catholics. An excellent swordswomen blessed with the power of a Saint. Introduced in Volume 1
*Tsuchimikado Motoharu - A good friend of Kamijou. Capable of using both ESP (which can repair injuries) and magic (though it injures him). Introduced in Volume 1.

===Terminology===
*Espers - Humans talented with paranormal abilities

====Festivals====
*Daihaseisai - A sports festival in Academy City
*Ichihanaransai - A school festival

Toaru Majutsu no Index:Names and Terminology Guideline

2011-02-14T07:23:12Z

Stiyl: /* Roman Catholic Church */ Adding katakana for Lidvia Lorenzetti and adding punctuation for other character descriptions.

='''To Aru Majutsu no Index'''=
Note: This page is merely a list of unique/semi-unique terms and names for translators and editors to maintain consistency. If anything significant needs to be done such as any large additions, disputes to listed translations to a term or name or formatting issues, please feel free to post them at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 To Aru Majutsu no Index - Names and Terminology] for discussion and review.

==Format Standard==
===Titles===
*Untranslated Chapter titles keeps their original title if they're known.
*The English part of the original title keeps its underscores at all times and in all versions. 

===Narrative Tenses===

Translators are allowed to use whichever tenses they need, but editors are to ensure that the text is mostly in present tense, with past tenses used when necessary

===Style of English===
In lieu of the setting, all text are to be in British English (unless there are Americans in the story, which so far, there aren't any yet.)

===Names===
====Academy City====

*Kamijou Touma - The main protagonist of Toaru Majutsu no Index.
*Misaka Mikoto (御坂美琴) - A heroine of Toaru Majutsu no Index. Stars in her own spin-off series, Toaru Kagaku no Choudenjibou.
*Tsukuyomi Komoe (月詠小萌) - Kamijou Touma's homeroom teacher. Known as one of the 7 great mysteries of the school for her child-like appearance and behaviour. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Aogami Pierce - Kamijou Touma's class representative. His name literally means Blue hair piercings guy. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Heaven Canceler - A frog-faced doctor of Academy City introduced in Volume 1.
*Fukiyose Seiri (吹寄制理) - A female classmate of Touma's.
*Yomikawa Aiho (黄泉川愛穂) - A female gym teacher at Touma's school. She also works for Anti-Skill.
*Yoshikawa Kikyou (芳川桔梗) - A female scientist involved with research projects at Academy City.
*Uiharu Kazari (初春飾利) - A female middle school student and a member of Judgment Branch #177.

====The Churches====

=====Roman Catholic Church=====

*Aureolus Izzard - An alchemist formerly of the Roman Catholic Church introduced in Volume 2.
*Orsola Aquinas - A Roman Catholic nun introduced in Volume 7.
*Agnese Sanctis - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7.
*Lucia - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7.
*Oriana Thompson - A magician working as a mercenary, introduced in Volume 9.
*Lidvia Lorenzetti (リドヴィア＝ロレンツェッディ) - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 9.

=====Necessarius=====

*Stiyl Magnus - A magician specializing in rune magic. Friend of Kanzaki and Index since before the novel. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Kanzaki kaori - A magician who rejected the Amakusa Catholics. An excellent swordswomen blessed with the power of a Saint. Introduced in Volume 1
*Tsuchimikado Motoharu - A good friend of Kamijou. Capable of using both ESP (which can repair injuries) and magic (though it injures him). Introduced in Volume 1.

===Terminology===
*Espers - Humans talented with paranormal abilities

====Festivals====
*Daihaseisai - A sports festival in Academy City
*Ichihanaransai - A school festival

Toaru Majutsu no Index:Names and Terminology Guideline

2011-02-11T07:26:32Z

Stiyl: /* Academy City */ Added entry for Uiharu Kazari.

='''To Aru Majutsu no Index'''=
Note: This page is merely a list of unique/semi-unique terms and names for translators and editors to maintain consistency. If anything significant needs to be done such as any large additions, disputes to listed translations to a term or name or formatting issues, please feel free to post them at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 To Aru Majutsu no Index - Names and Terminology] for discussion and review.

==Format Standard==
===Titles===
*Untranslated Chapter titles keeps their original title if they're known.
*The English part of the original title keeps its underscores at all times and in all versions. 

===Narrative Tenses===

Translators are allowed to use whichever tenses they need, but editors are to ensure that the text is mostly in present tense, with past tenses used when necessary

===Style of English===
In lieu of the setting, all text are to be in British English (unless there are Americans in the story, which so far, there aren't any yet.)

===Names===
====Academy City====

*Kamijou Touma - The main protagonist of Toaru Majutsu no Index.
*Misaka Mikoto (御坂美琴) - A heroine of Toaru Majutsu no Index. Stars in her own spin-off series, Toaru Kagaku no Choudenjibou.
*Tsukuyomi Komoe (月詠小萌) - Kamijou Touma's homeroom teacher. Known as one of the 7 great mysteries of the school for her child-like appearance and behaviour. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Aogami Pierce - Kamijou Touma's class representative. His name literally means Blue hair piercings guy. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Heaven Canceler - A frog-faced doctor of Academy City introduced in Volume 1.
*Fukiyose Seiri (吹寄制理) - A female classmate of Touma's.
*Yomikawa Aiho (黄泉川愛穂) - A female gym teacher at Touma's school. She also works for Anti-Skill.
*Yoshikawa Kikyou (芳川桔梗) - A female scientist involved with research projects at Academy City.
*Uiharu Kazari (初春飾利) - A female middle school student and a member of Judgment Branch #177.

====The Churches====

=====Roman Catholic Church=====

*Aureolus Izzard - An alchemist formerly of the Roman Catholic Church introduced in Volume 2
*Orsola Aquinas - A Roman Catholic nun introduced in Volume 7
*Agnese Sanctis - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7
*Lucia - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7
*Oriana Thompson - A magician working as a mercenary, introduced in Volume 9
*Lidvia Lorenzetti - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 9

===Terminology===
*Espers - Humans talented with paranormal abilities

====Festivals====
*Daihaseisai - A sports festival in Academy City
*Ichihanaransai - A school festival

Toaru Majutsu no Index:Names and Terminology Guideline

2011-02-11T03:46:11Z

Stiyl: /* Academy City */ Added entry for Yoshikawa Kikyou plus a few more edits.

='''To Aru Majutsu no Index'''=
Note: This page is merely a list of unique/semi-unique terms and names for translators and editors to maintain consistency. If anything significant needs to be done such as any large additions, disputes to listed translations to a term or name or formatting issues, please feel free to post them at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 To Aru Majutsu no Index - Names and Terminology] for discussion and review.

==Format Standard==
===Titles===
*Untranslated Chapter titles keeps their original title if they're known.
*The English part of the original title keeps its underscores at all times and in all versions. 

===Narrative Tenses===

Translators are allowed to use whichever tenses they need, but editors are to ensure that the text is mostly in present tense, with past tenses used when necessary

===Style of English===
In lieu of the setting, all text are to be in British English (unless there are Americans in the story, which so far, there aren't any yet.)

===Names===
====Academy City====

*Kamijou Touma - The main protagonist of Toaru Majutsu no Index.
*Misaka Mikoto (御坂美琴) - A heroine of Toaru Majutsu no Index. Stars in her own spin-off series, Toaru Kagaku no Choudenjibou.
*Tsukuyomi Komoe (月詠小萌) - Kamijou Touma's homeroom teacher. Known as one of the 7 great mysteries of the school for her child-like appearance and behaviour. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Aogami Pierce - Kamijou Touma's class representative. His name literally means Blue hair piercings guy. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Heaven Canceler - A frog-faced doctor of Academy City introduced in Volume 1.
*Fukiyose Seiri (吹寄制理) - A female classmate of Touma's.
*Yomikawa Aiho (黄泉川愛穂) - A female gym teacher at Touma's school. She also works for Anti-Skill.
*Yoshikawa Kikyou (芳川桔梗) - A female scientist involved with research projects at Academy City.

====The Churches====

=====Roman Catholic Church=====

*Aureolus Izzard - An alchemist formerly of the Roman Catholic Church introduced in Volume 2
*Orsola Aquinas - A Roman Catholic nun introduced in Volume 7
*Agnese Sanctis - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7
*Lucia - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7
*Oriana Thompson - A magician working as a mercenary, introduced in Volume 9
*Lidvia Lorenzetti - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 9

===Terminology===

====Festivals====
*Daihaseisai - A sports festival in Academy City
*Espers - Humans talented with paranormal abilities
*Ichihanaransai - A school festival

Toaru Majutsu no Index:Names and Terminology Guideline

2011-02-10T11:51:23Z

Stiyl: /* Academy City */ Adding kanji for Misaka Mikoto

='''To Aru Majutsu no Index'''=
Note: This page is merely a list of unique/semi-unique terms and names for translators and editors to maintain consistency. If anything significant needs to be done such as any large additions, disputes to listed translations to a term or name or formatting issues, please feel free to post them at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 To Aru Majutsu no Index - Names and Terminology] for discussion and review.

==Format Standard==
===Titles===
*Untranslated Chapter titles keeps their original title if they're known.
*The English part of the original title keeps its underscores at all times and in all versions. 

===Narrative Tenses===

Translators are allowed to use whichever tenses they need, but editors are to ensure that the text is mostly in present tense, with past tenses used when necessary

===Style of English===
In lieu of the setting, all text are to be in British English (unless there are Americans in the story, which so far, there aren't any yet.)

===Names===
====Academy City====

*Kamijou Touma - The main protagonist of Toaru Majutsu no Index.
*Misaka Mikoto (御坂美琴) - A heroine of Toaru Majutsu no Index. Stars in her own spin-off series, Toaru Kagaku no Choudenjibou.
*Tsukuyomi Komoe (月詠小萌) - Kamijou Touma's homeroom teacher. Known as one of the 7 great mysteries of the school for her child-like appearance and behaviour. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Aogami Pierce - Kamijou Touma's class representative. His name literally means Blue hair piercings guy. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Heaven Canceler - A doctor of Academy City introduced in Volume 1.
*Fukiyose Seiri (吹寄制理) - A female classmate of Touma's.
*Yomikawa Aiho (黄泉川愛穂) - A female gym teacher at Touma's school. She also works for Anti-Skill.

====The Churches====

=====Roman Catholic Church=====

*Aureolus Izzard - An alchemist formerly of the Roman Catholic Church introduced in Volume 2
*Orsola Aquinas - A Roman Catholic nun introduced in Volume 7
*Agnese Sanctis - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7
*Lucia - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7
*Oriana Thompson - A magician working as a mercenary, introduced in Volume 9
*Lidvia Lorenzetti - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 9

===Terminology===

====Festivals====
*Daihaseisai - A sports festival in Academy City
*Espers - Humans talented with paranormal abilities
*Ichihanaransai - A school festival

Toaru Majutsu no Index:Names and Terminology Guideline

2011-02-10T04:16:35Z

Stiyl: /* Academy City */ Missed some punctuation and spaces.

='''To Aru Majutsu no Index'''=
Note: This page is merely a list of unique/semi-unique terms and names for translators and editors to maintain consistency. If anything significant needs to be done such as any large additions, disputes to listed translations to a term or name or formatting issues, please feel free to post them at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 To Aru Majutsu no Index - Names and Terminology] for discussion and review.

==Format Standard==
===Titles===
*Untranslated Chapter titles keeps their original title if they're known.
*The English part of the original title keeps its underscores at all times and in all versions. 

===Narrative Tenses===

Translators are allowed to use whichever tenses they need, but editors are to ensure that the text is mostly in present tense, with past tenses used when necessary

===Style of English===
In lieu of the setting, all text are to be in British English (unless there are Americans in the story, which so far, there aren't any yet.)

===Names===
====Academy City====

*Kamijou Touma - The main protagonist of Toaru Majutsu no Index.
*Misaka Mikoto - A heroine of Toaru Majutsu no Index. Stars in her own spin-off series, Toaru Kagaku no Choudenjibou.
*Tsukuyomi Komoe (月詠小萌) - Kamijou Touma's homeroom teacher. Known as one of the 7 great mysteries of the school for her child-like appearance and behaviour. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Aogami Pierce - Kamijou Touma's class representative. His name literally means Blue hair piercings guy. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Heaven Canceler - A doctor of Academy City introduced in Volume 1.
*Fukiyose Seiri (吹寄制理) - A female classmate of Touma's.
*Yomikawa Aiho (黄泉川愛穂) - A female gym teacher at Touma's school. She also works for Anti-Skill.

====The Churches====

=====Roman Catholic Church=====

*Aureolus Izzard - An alchemist formerly of the Roman Catholic Church introduced in Volume 2
*Orsola Aquinas - A Roman Catholic nun introduced in Volume 7
*Agnese Sanctis - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7
*Lucia - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7
*Oriana Thompson - A magician working as a mercenary, introduced in Volume 9
*Lidvia Lorenzetti - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 9

===Terminology===

====Festivals====
*Daihaseisai - A sports festival in Academy City
*Espers - Humans talented with paranormal abilities
*Ichihanaransai - A school festival

Toaru Majutsu no Index:Names and Terminology Guideline

2011-02-10T04:11:45Z

Stiyl: /* Academy City */ A bit of clean up, plus kanji names for some characters.

='''To Aru Majutsu no Index'''=
Note: This page is merely a list of unique/semi-unique terms and names for translators and editors to maintain consistency. If anything significant needs to be done such as any large additions, disputes to listed translations to a term or name or formatting issues, please feel free to post them at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 To Aru Majutsu no Index - Names and Terminology] for discussion and review.

==Format Standard==
===Titles===
*Untranslated Chapter titles keeps their original title if they're known.
*The English part of the original title keeps its underscores at all times and in all versions. 

===Narrative Tenses===

Translators are allowed to use whichever tenses they need, but editors are to ensure that the text is mostly in present tense, with past tenses used when necessary

===Style of English===
In lieu of the setting, all text are to be in British English (unless there are Americans in the story, which so far, there aren't any yet.)

===Names===
====Academy City====

*Kamijou Touma - The main protagonist of Toaru Majutsu no Index
*Misaka Mikoto - A heroine of Toaru Majutsu no Index. Stars in her own spin-off series, Toaru Kagaku no Choudenjibou
*Tsukuyomi Komoe (月詠小萌)- Kamijou Touma's homeroom teacher. Known as one of the 7 great mysteries of the school for her child-like appearance and behaviour. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Aogami Pierce - Kamijou Touma's class representative. His name literally means Blue hair piercings guy. Introduced in Volume 1.
*Heaven Canceler - A doctor of Academy City introduced in Volume 1.
*Fukiyose Seiri (吹寄制理) - A female classmate of Touma's.
*Yomikawa Aiho (黄泉川愛穂) - A female gym teacher at Touma's school. She also works for Anti-Skill.

====The Churches====

=====Roman Catholic Church=====

*Aureolus Izzard - An alchemist formerly of the Roman Catholic Church introduced in Volume 2
*Orsola Aquinas - A Roman Catholic nun introduced in Volume 7
*Agnese Sanctis - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7
*Lucia - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 7
*Oriana Thompson - A magician working as a mercenary, introduced in Volume 9
*Lidvia Lorenzetti - A Roman Catholic magician introduced in Volume 9

===Terminology===

====Festivals====
*Daihaseisai - A sports festival in Academy City
*Espers - Humans talented with paranormal abilities
*Ichihanaransai - A school festival

User talk:Stiyl

2011-02-06T13:38:43Z

Stiyl: /* For that thing you posted on your page */

==For that thing you posted on your page==

I copied the text from the subs. Though checking through, it doesn't feel right.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:18, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

----

On my page, I used the translation from Eclipse's first season subtitles, which is actually from the English text in the light novels. Maybe the author meant something else, but I have no clue. I just put it on the page so I wouldn't have a blank user page, and it's something my namesake would say.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 13:38, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

User:Stiyl/To Do List

2011-02-06T12:59:28Z

Stiyl: Created To Do List page for my convenience

This is a To Do List to remind me what things I still need to look into to change.

#<s>[[Talk:To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume8_Chapter_3#Translation_Help]]</s>
#[[Talk:To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume8_Chapter_3#Translation_Help_2]]
#<s>[[Talk:To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume8_Chapter_3#Translation_Help_3]]</s>
#[[Talk:To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume8_Chapter_3#Translation_Help_4]]
#[[Talk:To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume8_Chapter_3#Translation_Help_5]]

User talk:Teh Ping

2011-02-06T12:45:53Z

Stiyl: /* To Aru Majutsu no Index edits */ new section

'''Teh Ping'''

It awesome that your doing "To Aru Majutsu No Index", it doesn't matter if your a slacker.
i can't wait to see the translation you do on volume 7 and other if you are/ thanks!!

== To Teh Ping ==
From: mark1246

by any chance, once your done with volume. 7, are you doing volume 9 next

=== From Teh Ping===
Well, I'll prefer to do it on a request by request basis. So, since you asked, I will most probably be doing 9 after 7.

===Want to make sure I said===
that you're awesome. Thank you!
--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 01:11, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

i concur that you are awesome, even though im prob just a random ip address

== You're awesome ==

Thanks man for translating Index. I really am grateful. I wish I could do something for you.

== To Teh Ping ==
From: Mark1246
Date: 3/21/2010

I know it a little late but, Congratulation '''Teh PIng''' on completing volume of 7 and know doing volume 9 of '''To Aru Majutsu No Index'''. your really fast at translating and posting each chapter everyday, I enjoyed reading your work and thank you so much for doing this (I always like saying nice complements to people it polite). Me and all my friends who go on bakatsuki.com want to say thank very much for doing this! Spring break comes next week, hoped you have a great vocation, you deserved it. Oh and season 2 of '''To Aru Majutsu No Index''' comes this October, Hooray

'''P.S. can you please reply to this message or my home page so I know that you got the message, thank you'''

I got the message. No problems.~ Teh Ping

== Good luck in the Army ==

It'll problaly drain a lot of your energy, but I think once you get pass it, you feel a little bit better about yourself too.

Thanks for your hard work. I'll hope to see update sometime.

Good luck! --[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 19:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

==[[To Aru Majutsu no Index]]==
So you are still a active translator for this series right? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 07:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

===From Teh Ping===
As of now, yes.

===To Teh Ping===
Its nice that you will do that, but please dont wear yourself out. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 19:33, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

== To Teh Ping ==

Great job for your work on the Index!!! To see how most of the translated volume were done by you alone... Wow, it's simply... Awesome!!!

Oh, by the way, can I ask where you get the untranslated version (or whatever version you translate it from)? Since I'm thinking to try to translate the 2nd volume...

===From Teh Ping===

Well, I'm currently using the original books as reference. But before that, I was translating from Chinese versions online:

2 options here:
http://book.sky-fire.com/Novel/2729/MainIndex/

http://novel.emland.net/html/M/20090904/mofajinshumulu/index.html (Not very accurate at times, but the text is larger and easier to read)

I wouldn't advise you to translate using softwares like google translate though, since it's really hard to understand all the weird grammar (not to mention that the softwares sometimes translate the words literally or try to verbalise it). However, if you want to start working on it, then good luck, and welcome aboard the team.

--09:00, 10 September 2010 (UTC)Teh Ping

===To Teh Ping===

Thanks, I'll check it out later
And, yeah, I must agree about the google part...
Now, just need to search for a n editor...

--11:00, 10 September 2010 Thrice.Holder

If the translations were understandable you could have just added them to the wiki - here would have been enough editors to work on it over time (since every reader here is also a potential editor ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:21, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I honestly hope that he/she's still around, but you're 3 months too late.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:59, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I know, but I asked also already at 5th November on the users talk page regarding that, so since I dont know where the user is looking first if he/she returns I thought I ask here too. ;) I thought your answer at the main projects talk page were good so I didnt thought that I should react earlier too ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 10:43, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Nice Translations! Keep up the good work! ==

Hi Teh Ping.

I just wanna tell you that I like your translations and it seems that you are about to finish Volume 11. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!

Erm, thanks.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 08:40, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Which volume are you going to translate next?

== To Teh Ping ==
From: mark1246

Dear teh ping:

Date 10/31/2010

It halloween and tonight trick-or-treating for free candy across the door. well it going to be a busy night tonight. A few thing i want to say.

1. Sorry for the inconvenience with this

[FOR THE 535TH TIME!!!
I DIDN'T CHOOSE WHAT VOLUMES TO BE COVERED BASED ON WHETHER I LIKED IT OR NOT!!
The plan was to go through season 2's volumes, from volume 7 onwards. A user called Mark1246 requested for volume 9 to be translated when I first started off with 7, so after I did 7, I jumped to 9, then 10 because 9 and 10 are related. After which, I went back to 8 because it wasn't complete. So stop going about with this "You hate Kuroko", "You like nuns" and whatsoever]

I didn't want to cause problem for you about that and im sorry for those people for bothering you.

2. The newest season of to aru majutsu 2 is great so far. im impressed with the graphic and fighting animation. there were some i quite didn't understand unless i read the novel, so thank you for translating the novel, because with out you, there would be so many unanswered question in my head.

Happy Halloween :):D

1) Nah, no problem. I'm trying to make things clear here.

2) As for novels, I'm planning to finish up Vol 1 Chp 1 of the series first, since I started on it, but there's a slight problem--I just got transferred to another branch in Army, and they're using Windows XP Version 1. This means no Chinese or Japanese, and means that I have to adjust my schedule to one update per week on each series. --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== To Teh Ping ==

Sorry about changing the British English in volume 16. However, it seems inconsistent throughout the translations. For example, Volume 8 has both 'color' and 'colour' (not that I noticed while reading). Is there going to be any consensus, or is it just personal choice? Does just need to be consistent within a [section|chapter|volume]? --CarVac

Well, I always keep my spelling as British, so most likely, someone changed it. I have a task for the editors, and that's to change them to British.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:10, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

== To Teh Ping ==

First off, I'd like to thank you for all of your hard work translating To Aru Majutsu no Index. I was rather sad after the anime concluded because it seemed to end so abruptly, so I was thrilled to find that translations for the story afterwards were available online. My main point in writing, however, is that I've noticed that you've also put work into translating parts of volume 16, 21, and 22. It should go without saying that all of your hard work is appreciated, but I would assume that many people (myself included) haven't read these because we wish to read the story in order. Thus, I would think it wise to work on SS1 or volume 14 next, as they're next in order. Again, it goes without saying that what you do with your own time and work is your own business, so feel free to ignore the suggestion of one anonymous reader, but I'd think it to be a bit sad that you put so much hard work into translations that few people will read only because of the order. -Anonymous fan

eh, looks like 2nd anime will cover vol 14. do whatever you'd prefer. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 18:50, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, not so sure about this but.. I've read on some jap. website that the whole 2nd season will cover until Vol. 13. Anyways, thank you for your amazing and wonderful translation work. We TaMnI fans are truly looking up to you. Thank you very much, good luck and more power to you. -Anonymous fan # 2

Ah-- was basing on episode count: 4 volumes first half -> 4 volumes second half. either way there are a bunch of translators, so he should translate whatever volumes he feels like. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 01:24, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, like I said, he can translate whatever he feels like. It's not like I'm going to break through the door with a shotgun pointed at his head until he does those ones. I'm just pointing out that many people will likely not read what he does unless they've been able to read up to that point, and SS1 & 14 are next. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but I can only base my theories off of my own preferences. For the sake of my own curiosity, have you read the later translations without seeing what comes in between, Saganatsu? -Anonymous fan

P.S. As AF #2 said, I really do appreciate and look up to you, Teh Ping. There's really nothing I could say to adequately express my gratitude.

----

To Anonymous Fan: Several things you need to realize.

1) I recommend reading "[[Talk:To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index#What_the_shit|the Talk Page for the series]]" before continuing to reply. As Teh_Ping has previously said IN THIS PAGE as well, he does chapters by request. Realize that you are NOT the first one asking him to do chapters in order and probably not the last either.

2) There is a [[To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Registration_Page||Registration Page]] page for each series on Baka-Tsuki. Before requesting something, you might want to check to see if someone else is already trying to translate some of it already. You're being pretty rude to the other translator otherwise.

3) Considering his previous responses, trying to guilt trip Teh_Ping into doing the series in order is just going to piss him off to some degree. If you want him to do the next chapters in sequence, just request those chapters after checking the Registration page and making sure someone else isn't working on them. Different people work at different paces, and there are valid reasons to do different chapters out of sequence.

4) The "it's common sense" approach is condescending and insulting when you start out with it, no matter how much you sugarcoat it or how much you try to make it subtle. You would be wasting significantly less time just simply asking why he is doing them out of sequence FIRST before trying to even step down that route.
[[User:Rava|Rava]] 11:19, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

1) I wasn't even aware that page existed, though clearly I am now. However, if he does chapters by request, then this could be considered my request, no?

2) I have checked the registration page, and I see no problems. Volume 14, chapter 1 is registered to someone else, but all other chapters in these two volumes are either completed or have no translators.

3) I'm not trying to "guilt trip" him into anything. I have no idea where you got that idea. I can see why that would be infuriating, but I can't see anywhere in my previous posts where I attempted to "guilt trip" him into doing what I wanted. Also, I don't know of any way to request that he do the next chapters except for coming on to his talk page and saying "please do these next," with or without my reasoning behind that request. And again, I did check the registration page and see no problems.

4) The last thing I'm trying to do is be "condescending and insulting," and I apologize if it came across that way. I honestly have no idea what you mean by "sugarcoat it" and "try to make it subtle." I'm making a request that makes perfect sense in my mind, nothing more. As for asking why, well, I just didn't think of it.

I'm only trying to state my request. I'm not trying to "guilt trip," "sugarcoat," "try to make it subtle" (make ''what'' subtle?), and definitely not be "condescending and insulting." I believe you to be acting with excessive agression over my request, whether or not you agree with it. My request makes sense to me, and it's what I would like to read next. That's it. Now, allow me to ask you the same question; it's not rhetorical, I honestly wish to know. Have you read the translations beyond volume 13? -Now-Slightly-Less-Than-Anonymous fan

To Now-Slightly-Less-Than-Anonymous fan:

1. Read the "What the shit" section in the Talk page. It is a variation of your request--only in ruder form. It also came first. Then read through the rest of the topics.

2. No, it's not OK to ask someone else to interrupt another active or semi-active translator's volume just because you want to read it sooner. People can take months UNPAID translating a volume but still get them done. (Joay is a very good example.) People had to get their hands on the scripts for the volumes, which USUALLY includes buying the book. Js06 is already translating volume 14 and actually working at a fast pace considering he is registered on Chapters 1, 2 as COMPLETED and starting on 3. Asking someone else to jump in on 14 right now is pointless and insulting. SS1 has been picked up by Joay because Twi was finally moved to inactive, which takes a very long time to happen. Asking someone else to jump in on SS1 right now is pointless and insulting.

3 & 4.

"First off, I'd like to thank you for all of your hard work translating To Aru Majutsu no Index."

This is praise, a.k.a. the sugar in the "sugar-coating" term.

"I was rather sad after the anime concluded because it seemed to end so abruptly, so I was thrilled to find that translations for the story afterwards were available online."

Statement of your opinion.

"My main point in writing, however, is that I've noticed that you've also put work into translating parts of volume 16, 21, and 22."
Statement of fact with a little praise.

"It should go without saying that all of your hard work is appreciated, but I would assume that many people (myself included) haven't read these because we wish to read the story in order."

Even more praise, followed by an "I would assume" line. "I would assume" is commonly used in insults by insinuating that if the responder does not have the common sense to realize whatever is being stated, they are (stupid/mentally deficient/insert insult of choice). For example:

I would assume you know how to turn off a light.

I would assume the sky is blue.

I would assume you can count to three.

I would assume everyone leaves work at five.

It makes no difference if you think it is all right and use it in your everyday speech. The fact is that "I would assume" phrases coupled with your next line when no one has actually asked for your opinion is a subtle type of insult.

"Thus, I would think it wise to work on SS1 or volume 14 next, as they're next in order."

"I would think" here makes the assumption that you are smarter than the reader and that you are right. This is condescending because no one has asked for your specific opinion. This coupled with your previous line makes them an insult or even a threat by implying that if Teh_Ping was smart, he would translate what you suggest next.

"Again, it goes without saying that what you do with your own time and work is your own business, so feel free to ignore the suggestion of one anonymous reader, but I'd think it to be a bit sad that you put so much hard work into translations that few people will read only because of the order." -Anonymous fan
A "I think" phrase being used like the "I would think" phrase from earlier, implying that Teh_Ping is wasting his time and work on a chapter JUST because he did it out of order. This is an example of an opinion that you should be keeping to yourself and not writing or speaking out to someone because it is insulting.

Bottom line: You are wasting time being defensive with the wrong person about your request asking another person the wrong way to work on the volumes you want to read that are already in progress by other people. Instead of wasting more time responding, go read the chapters that were released or try talking to the people actually translating them if you are done reading them. There's more than one translator doing translations for this very series, and it's not helpful to try to pile up all the work on just one.
[[User:Rava|Rava]] 06:22, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

----

1. Now I have. I still fail to see the harm in another person asking.

2. When I wrote my previous post, Volume 14 had the prologue and chapter 2 completed, with Js06 listed for chapter 1. Since then, chapter 2 has been completed and he's moved on to chapter 3. Nonetheless, the rules say that you should register which ''chapters'' you're working on, not which ''novels''. Thus, my statement that there were no translators for chapters 3 and up was not groundless. As for SS1, the prologue and chapter 1 are registered to Joay, but are complete. He doesn't have any chapters in SS1 listed as a work-in-progress, so the assumption and potential truth that he's not working on SS1 also has footing. In other words, I wasn't asking him to interrupt anything. With volume 14, this can be called a misunderstanding of sorts. With SS1, however, I've done nothing wrong, unintentional or otherwise.

3. What you call "sugar" I call being polite and telling the truth. Whatever you want to call it, I do honestly appreciate his work and am saying so. Could it potentially help me convince him to do the novels I request? Yes. So what? That's not why I wrote it, and you can tell from his previous posts (and the fact that he can speak two completely different languages with enough fluency to translate them) that he wouldn't be sucked into that kind of thing even if it was.

As for "I would assume" being used in insults, so is everything when you're being sarcastic.

Examples:
You're polite.
[Insert food here] is really good.
I love [Insert anything here].

Any of these could be stated normally and thus be a positive statement. They could also be stated with sarcasm to make them negative statements. When I said "I would assume", I was being neither but rather stating what I ''would assume''. I know, weird right? It seems that you took this to be a negative, sarcastic phrase, but it wasn't. Therefore, I'm not implying any such thing.

Furthermore, no one has to ask for my opinion. It's the internet, I'll give my opinion if I feel like it. What is the internet but a sea of opinions? Besides, he ''is'' asking for the opinions of his readers on what his next project should be. I'm saying what my opinion on this matter is (fulfilling this request), and explaining my reasoning.

As for how "I would think" could imply that I feel myself to be smarter than the other person, you've lost me.

I didn't imply that Teh_Ping was wasting his time; I'm sure there are some people that don't care about the sequence enough to wait. What I ''am'' saying is that his work would go farther if he translated the novels in between as well. This is not insulting, this is my reasoning. And again, no one has to ask for my opinion if I feel like giving it. If he disagrees, he can just ignore me.

My bottom line:
It's a request. Not a demand. Not an insult. I can tell from your arguments that you're an intelligent person (mstly bcuz u dnt tak lke ths), but I think you're reading too much into this. It requires intelligence to peel away the layers of a statement, and that's what you believe yourself to be doing, correct? However, you can't peel away layers that were never put in place to begin with. You have to peel away the layers of an onion to get to the good part, but sometimes a peeled onion looks as if it's unpeeled. You won't accomplish anything good by continuing to peel it, as you already have the good part right there on the surface. -No-Longer-Anonymous-User ([[User:Turtleman579|Turtleman579]])

P.S. If you're going to continue this argument (which I assume you are), might I suggest moving it to my (new! yay!) talk page instead of clogging up Teh_Ping's? ''I would think'' that he might not like such extensive arguments taking up half his page, though that's just my ''opinion''. Sorry, couldn't help it. Seriously though, we should move.

----

== To Teh Ping ==

First off, thank-you for all your hard work. If it weren't for you, and the other translators contributing to this wiki of course, I wouldn't have been able to read such a great series. On to my question though. It looks like Volume 16 is close to being finished, what volume are you going to move on to next? If you haven't already decided could you possibly finish off SS 1? I got stuck into the first chapter and now I want to know what happens next ;_;

Heya! I saw that last week? there's a poll in Toaru wikia, wondering if you're the one who'll translate it.. Anyway, if I can post a request here... my request is for Vol. 14 to be translated, since a new translator has joined the wikia(Js06) and is working on Vol. 14, why don't work together to translate the volume easier?(Oh, don't worry I've checked the registration page and he's working on Ch. 1) because I just noticed that you're very fast at translating(based on Vol. 16), why won't take a relaxed pace of translating? I thought maybe you're pushing yourself too hard since you're in the army and all(saw it on your previous User page).. I know what it's like in the army, I can say that training is a very serious one.. Anyhow, if my request is declined maybe, I'll try again next time. More power to you guys and thank you very much. ~Anonymous fan # 2

==IS==

I'll be doing after the part "close call, really close call..." Kira

Okay then.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

And also, I' want to hear your thoughts about changing/editing IS by putting the general truths (like descriptions) and others from past to present. I'll keep the past for events, but I'll change the monologue into present (if it isn't already done). [[User:Kira0802|Kira0802]] 21:42, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Go ahead with it.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 01:57, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I finished my part, the rest is up to you^^[[User:Kira0802|Kira0802]] 01:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I just woke up. --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 01:57, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

LOL there's a 11 hours difference between here and Singapore~ I'll send you my part via PM in B-T forums[[User:Kira0802|Kira0802]] 02:03, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

== To Aru Majutsu no Index edits ==

I hope that I'm not being a bother by asking so much on the Talk Pages of the To Aru Majutsu No Index light novels. I really enjoy the series, so I'd like to help where I can with the English while maintaining accuracy to the source material. While I am alright with editing English, my Japanese is really quite bad, so I can't confirm the accuracy of my edits on my own very well.

Thank you for your help on this!

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 12:45, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

User:Stiyl

2011-02-04T16:24:45Z

Stiyl: Adding some basic content

「灰は灰に、
塵は塵に。
吸血殺しの紅十字！」

"Ash to ash,
dust to dust.
Squeamish Bloody Rood!"

You know, I still can't make sense of that last sentence. I can get where 十字, cross, equals "rood" (a crucifix, a cross as used in crucifixion, etc.). I can even rationalize 殺しの紅 into "crimson of murder", which I can argue is blood. What I can't do, however, is figure out how 吸血, "bloodsucking" or "sucking blood", becomes "squeamish". Any insight here is appreciated.