Talk:Umineko Volume 1: Chapter 0 - Revision history

Sonozaki Futagotachi at 17:45, 23 March 2008

2008-03-23T17:45:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:45, 23 March 2008
Line 75:		Line 75:

	According to Niemand's comments, I'm changing a few words. But I have to agree with her: some of the changes I noticed on the Futagotachi version seemed to be just lexical, or interpretational; different translators will use different words, but the meaning stays intact (most of the time).--[[User:Tobiast88\|Tobiast88]] 07:33, 23 March 2008 (PDT)		According to Niemand's comments, I'm changing a few words. But I have to agree with her: some of the changes I noticed on the Futagotachi version seemed to be just lexical, or interpretational; different translators will use different words, but the meaning stays intact (most of the time).--[[User:Tobiast88\|Tobiast88]] 07:33, 23 March 2008 (PDT)

			Er... sorry about changing the translation too much. I did know, while I was editing the script, that I was changing the text into something that didn't match the original Japanese as literally as the original translation. I guess I'm just too used to adapting Shion's translations for Higurashi into English that "flows" better when read, or sounds more like natural English writing. I forgot that that's not was being asked of me for this project.

			I'm not complaining; it would certainly take less time for me to just do the insertion of the text as it is (with maybe a bit of editing for space considerations), so I can devote more time to Higurashi. Just be sure to edit the chapters in the wiki for typos and grammar beforehand.
			--[[User:Sonozaki Futagotachi\|Sonozaki Futagotachi]] 10:45, 23 March 2008 (PDT)

Tobiast88 at 14:33, 23 March 2008

2008-03-23T14:33:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:33, 23 March 2008
Line 74:		Line 74:
	For the moment, we will stick with the current translation (not the beta script submitted), but please feel free to debate more extensively or edit it completely. [[User:Klashikari\|Klashikari]] 06:23, 23 March 2008 (PDT)		For the moment, we will stick with the current translation (not the beta script submitted), but please feel free to debate more extensively or edit it completely. [[User:Klashikari\|Klashikari]] 06:23, 23 March 2008 (PDT)

	According to Niemand's comments, I'm changing a few words. But I have to agree with her: some of the changes I noticed on the Futagotachi version seemed to be just lexical, or interpretational; different translators will use different words, but the meaning stays intact (most of the time).		According to Niemand's comments, I'm changing a few words. But I have to agree with her: some of the changes I noticed on the Futagotachi version seemed to be just lexical, or interpretational; different translators will use different words, but the meaning stays intact (most of the time).--[[User:Tobiast88\|Tobiast88]] 07:33, 23 March 2008 (PDT)

Tobiast88 at 14:33, 23 March 2008

2008-03-23T14:33:20Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:33, 23 March 2008
Line 73:		Line 73:

	For the moment, we will stick with the current translation (not the beta script submitted), but please feel free to debate more extensively or edit it completely. [[User:Klashikari\|Klashikari]] 06:23, 23 March 2008 (PDT)		For the moment, we will stick with the current translation (not the beta script submitted), but please feel free to debate more extensively or edit it completely. [[User:Klashikari\|Klashikari]] 06:23, 23 March 2008 (PDT)

			According to Niemand's comments, I'm changing a few words. But I have to agree with her: some of the changes I noticed on the Futagotachi version seemed to be just lexical, or interpretational; different translators will use different words, but the meaning stays intact (most of the time).

Klashikari at 13:24, 23 March 2008

2008-03-23T13:24:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:24, 23 March 2008
Line 19:		Line 19:
	As for the sake mention, yes indeed, I noticed that as well, and didn't exactly changed back to liquor early enough (see the history). I would hardly see Genji preparing sake with a green colourant XD [[User:Klashikari\|Klashikari]] 06:59, 10 March 2008 (PDT)		As for the sake mention, yes indeed, I noticed that as well, and didn't exactly changed back to liquor early enough (see the history). I would hardly see Genji preparing sake with a green colourant XD [[User:Klashikari\|Klashikari]] 06:59, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

			----

	'''About a specific expression:'''		'''About a specific expression:'''
Line 63:		Line 64:
	I suggest that the Futagotachi's version be removed from the page, since its modifications are minimal.		I suggest that the Futagotachi's version be removed from the page, since its modifications are minimal.
	I'd also like to add that if someone took MY translation of something, changed a few words (badly) and then posted it as their own, I would be quite angry and justifiably so. --[[User:Niemand\|Niemand]] 07:21, 22 March 2008 (PDT)		I'd also like to add that if someone took MY translation of something, changed a few words (badly) and then posted it as their own, I would be quite angry and justifiably so. --[[User:Niemand\|Niemand]] 07:21, 22 March 2008 (PDT)



	This is actually a rampant problem with several translators on the same text or so. I don't exactly believe the changes were done for the hell of it, considering what they actually have done for the onikakushi project.		This is actually a rampant problem with several translators on the same text or so. I don't exactly believe the changes were done for the hell of it, considering what they actually have done for the onikakushi project.

Klashikari at 13:23, 23 March 2008

2008-03-23T13:23:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:23, 23 March 2008
Line 63:		Line 63:
	I suggest that the Futagotachi's version be removed from the page, since its modifications are minimal.		I suggest that the Futagotachi's version be removed from the page, since its modifications are minimal.
	I'd also like to add that if someone took MY translation of something, changed a few words (badly) and then posted it as their own, I would be quite angry and justifiably so. --[[User:Niemand\|Niemand]] 07:21, 22 March 2008 (PDT)		I'd also like to add that if someone took MY translation of something, changed a few words (badly) and then posted it as their own, I would be quite angry and justifiably so. --[[User:Niemand\|Niemand]] 07:21, 22 March 2008 (PDT)

			This is actually a rampant problem with several translators on the same text or so. I don't exactly believe the changes were done for the hell of it, considering what they actually have done for the onikakushi project.
			That is to say, that beta script was given to show if some tweeks were necessary or whatnot (not only for personal preferences sake, but also for space issue I believe).

			I'm hardly on position to argue whichever is the best, hence why I submitted it below it, in case it was good or not. It would be better if all of you can discuss more in depth about the subtility or so. It will be troublesome, that is a given, though it would be quite preferable to see everyone's respective opinion, such like how Niemand did with the explanations.

			For the moment, we will stick with the current translation (not the beta script submitted), but please feel free to debate more extensively or edit it completely. [[User:Klashikari\|Klashikari]] 06:23, 23 March 2008 (PDT)

Niemand at 14:21, 22 March 2008

2008-03-22T14:21:19Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:21, 22 March 2008
Line 29:		Line 29:
	Good points there; although it can be tricky to determine the flow of text and dialogue before seeing how it plays out in the VN, in this particular case I think you're correct that Kinzo is saying "Thanks" to Genji, and not "Excuse me" to Nanjo.		Good points there; although it can be tricky to determine the flow of text and dialogue before seeing how it plays out in the VN, in this particular case I think you're correct that Kinzo is saying "Thanks" to Genji, and not "Excuse me" to Nanjo.
	Further, immediately after that he makes a comment about the medicine not being as necessary, that the liquor is what keeps him alive. Since Kinzo wasn't already speaking to Nanjo (who isn't even on-screen during this line), then I think he's more speaking out loud about his love for booze. Therefore, I'll change "your medicine" to "the medicine". --[[User:Sonozaki Futagotachi\|Sonozaki Futagotachi]] 17:47, 12 March 2008 (PDT)		Further, immediately after that he makes a comment about the medicine not being as necessary, that the liquor is what keeps him alive. Since Kinzo wasn't already speaking to Nanjo (who isn't even on-screen during this line), then I think he's more speaking out loud about his love for booze. Therefore, I'll change "your medicine" to "the medicine". --[[User:Sonozaki Futagotachi\|Sonozaki Futagotachi]] 17:47, 12 March 2008 (PDT)


			----

	Ok, I just checked the Sonozaki Futagotachi's version and I can't seem to understand why they posted it: it is merely an attempt to edit a few parts of the current translation, to make it more "literary", mostly in ways that I don't think are necessary.		Ok, I just checked the Sonozaki Futagotachi's version and I can't seem to understand why they posted it: it is merely an attempt to edit a few parts of the current translation, to make it more "literary", mostly in ways that I don't think are necessary.
Line 59:		Line 62:

	I suggest that the Futagotachi's version be removed from the page, since its modifications are minimal.		I suggest that the Futagotachi's version be removed from the page, since its modifications are minimal.
	I'd also like to add that if someone took MY translation of something, changed a few words (badly) and then posted it as their own, I would be quite angry and justifiably so.		I'd also like to add that if someone took MY translation of something, changed a few words (badly) and then posted it as their own, I would be quite angry and justifiably so. --[[User:Niemand\|Niemand]] 07:21, 22 March 2008 (PDT)

Niemand at 14:20, 22 March 2008

2008-03-22T14:20:04Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:20, 22 March 2008
Line 29:		Line 29:
	Good points there; although it can be tricky to determine the flow of text and dialogue before seeing how it plays out in the VN, in this particular case I think you're correct that Kinzo is saying "Thanks" to Genji, and not "Excuse me" to Nanjo.		Good points there; although it can be tricky to determine the flow of text and dialogue before seeing how it plays out in the VN, in this particular case I think you're correct that Kinzo is saying "Thanks" to Genji, and not "Excuse me" to Nanjo.
	Further, immediately after that he makes a comment about the medicine not being as necessary, that the liquor is what keeps him alive. Since Kinzo wasn't already speaking to Nanjo (who isn't even on-screen during this line), then I think he's more speaking out loud about his love for booze. Therefore, I'll change "your medicine" to "the medicine". --[[User:Sonozaki Futagotachi\|Sonozaki Futagotachi]] 17:47, 12 March 2008 (PDT)		Further, immediately after that he makes a comment about the medicine not being as necessary, that the liquor is what keeps him alive. Since Kinzo wasn't already speaking to Nanjo (who isn't even on-screen during this line), then I think he's more speaking out loud about his love for booze. Therefore, I'll change "your medicine" to "the medicine". --[[User:Sonozaki Futagotachi\|Sonozaki Futagotachi]] 17:47, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

			Ok, I just checked the Sonozaki Futagotachi's version and I can't seem to understand why they posted it: it is merely an attempt to edit a few parts of the current translation, to make it more "literary", mostly in ways that I don't think are necessary.
			Changing "stare" into "gaze" or "from" into "by" doesn't justify posting a "whole new script" and the heavily changed passages, I don't agree on.
			I also have a few objection on the original translation by Tobiast88.

			To begin, you have the "また" of the beginning. Basically, Nanjo is observing the same thing happened the last time he examined Kinzo (and has probably always been happening): he tells Kinzo to stop drinking and Kinzo keeps drinking. "Mata" isn't a reproach, "not again"; it means "I'm going to repeat, again, what I've said before".

			Then, the "書斎と呼ぶにはとても広い部屋". The fact that the room is "vast for a study" is subtle in japanese. The fact that it's "too vast" is an extrapolation.

			Then: "使用人のように見えた" = someone who looks like a manservant. No mention is made of the way he is dressed, the fact that he looks like a manservant could be induced by his attitude as well.

			Then: "肌蹴させていた男" why translate otoko as gentleman, out of the blue ? Using otoko so bluntly really doesn't give a charming, gentleman-like vibe.

			Then: 薬の意味もなくなってしまう: the 'kusuri' echoes to the first mention above (the medicine is working) and it is my opinion that the word medicine needs to appear twice for the echo-effect to work. I really think this should be "薬の意味 - the meaning of the medicine".

			Then: 見比べた means to compare, to look at one and then the other. Genji is looking once at Kinzo, once at Nanjo and then takes his decision to serve the liquor. There's no mention of "careful".

			Then: …心も、そして魂も溶かしてしまうような、毒のある甘い匂いは、
			主人の愛して止まないその毒々しい緑色の酒の匂いだったのだ。
			The use of the word "匂い" twice in a sentence isn't just because Ryukichi07 is too lazy to find another way of saying it. It is a repetition, an echo used on purpose and shouldn't be extrapolated in "emanate", but used twice.

			Then: 結局はグラスを煽る金蔵を見ながら言う means "while watching (...), he finally says ..." It introduces the next sentence; so a colon is justfied here.

			Then: 死にはせん is a bit like "it's not like I'm going to die (just from that)". It should definitely be translated that way. There is no mention of "might".

			Then: このチェスで例えましょう I would translate this as "Let us illustrate this with this chess game.



			I suggest that the Futagotachi's version be removed from the page, since its modifications are minimal.
			I'd also like to add that if someone took MY translation of something, changed a few words (badly) and then posted it as their own, I would be quite angry and justifiably so.

Sonozaki Futagotachi at 00:47, 13 March 2008

2008-03-13T00:47:36Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:47, 13 March 2008
Line 26:		Line 26:

	That looks right. I was thinking he was saying sorry to Nanjo for not listening to him again, but that makes more sense and flows better. Fixed.--[[User:Tobiast88\|Tobiast88]] 04:40, 12 March 2008 (PDT)		That looks right. I was thinking he was saying sorry to Nanjo for not listening to him again, but that makes more sense and flows better. Fixed.--[[User:Tobiast88\|Tobiast88]] 04:40, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

			Good points there; although it can be tricky to determine the flow of text and dialogue before seeing how it plays out in the VN, in this particular case I think you're correct that Kinzo is saying "Thanks" to Genji, and not "Excuse me" to Nanjo.
			Further, immediately after that he makes a comment about the medicine not being as necessary, that the liquor is what keeps him alive. Since Kinzo wasn't already speaking to Nanjo (who isn't even on-screen during this line), then I think he's more speaking out loud about his love for booze. Therefore, I'll change "your medicine" to "the medicine". --[[User:Sonozaki Futagotachi\|Sonozaki Futagotachi]] 17:47, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

Tobiast88 at 11:41, 12 March 2008

2008-03-12T11:41:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:41, 12 March 2008
Line 24:		Line 24:
	Since "suman" can be used as "(sorry for the trouble), thank you".		Since "suman" can be used as "(sorry for the trouble), thank you".
	Of course, this might match as well if he is adressing himself to Nanjo, as he is taking a glass. The thing is the term used looks rather the former choice than the later, well at least to me XD [[User:Klashikari\|Klashikari]] 01:24, 12 March 2008 (PDT)		Of course, this might match as well if he is adressing himself to Nanjo, as he is taking a glass. The thing is the term used looks rather the former choice than the later, well at least to me XD [[User:Klashikari\|Klashikari]] 01:24, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

	That looks right. I was thinking he was saying sorry to Nanjo for not listening to him again, but that makes more sense and flows better. Fixed.--[[User:Tobiast88\|Tobiast88]] 04:40, 12 March 2008 (PDT)		That looks right. I was thinking he was saying sorry to Nanjo for not listening to him again, but that makes more sense and flows better. Fixed.--[[User:Tobiast88\|Tobiast88]] 04:40, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

Tobiast88 at 11:40, 12 March 2008

2008-03-12T11:40:31Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:40, 12 March 2008
Line 24:		Line 24:
	Since "suman" can be used as "(sorry for the trouble), thank you".		Since "suman" can be used as "(sorry for the trouble), thank you".
	Of course, this might match as well if he is adressing himself to Nanjo, as he is taking a glass. The thing is the term used looks rather the former choice than the later, well at least to me XD [[User:Klashikari\|Klashikari]] 01:24, 12 March 2008 (PDT)		Of course, this might match as well if he is adressing himself to Nanjo, as he is taking a glass. The thing is the term used looks rather the former choice than the later, well at least to me XD [[User:Klashikari\|Klashikari]] 01:24, 12 March 2008 (PDT)
			That looks right. I was thinking he was saying sorry to Nanjo for not listening to him again, but that makes more sense and flows better. Fixed.--[[User:Tobiast88\|Tobiast88]] 04:40, 12 March 2008 (PDT)