Beyond sarcasm?

[Umiman]

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but it seems to me like Kyon is getting more and more sarcastic.

It's hard to give proof exactly, but whenever I go through HolyCow's translated text and the text of other chapters, Kyon changes quite a bit from being witty sarcastic to being downright mean and obnoxious.

As Koizumi was muttering some complicated-sounding crap again, I found the door I was leaning on suddenly budge, as it began slanting sideways.

You can skip trivial details like that.

You moron. If something as sensitive as a bomb could fall off the back of the truck, what was the point of using the truck to transport it in the first place?

It might also just be this quirky little brain of mine, but Kyon's manner of speaking is starting to become eerily similar with HolyCow himself.

Also, it seems Kyon's shift in behaviour (which might just be me being overzealous), ties in with that argument in the other thread concerning the fanfiction parody chapter.

Really, I don't want to accuse you of anything since I really respect and admire the fact that you translate for us. But perhaps you might be letting your own mood affect the translations?

Or it might just be me... as usual.

[HolyCow]

Here are the exerts from the original text, with the offending-sounding words in bold:

As Koizumi was muttering some complicated-sounding crap again, I found the door I was leaning on suddenly budge, as it began slanting sideways.

古泉一边说着莫名其妙的话，靠着门的身体突然浮了起来，向旁边移了开去。

You can skip trivial details like that.

这样的事情就不用说了。

You moron. If something as sensitive as a bomb could fall off the back of the truck, what was the point of using the truck to transport it in the first place?

傻瓜，如果那些货物会这么轻易从机车上面掉下来的话，还用它来运什么有毒气体炸弹？


As for Kyon calling Koizumi a moron or the sort, it's not the first time he's done so. He's never liked him in the first place, and it's not the first time he's said something like that. There was a chapter where he said something like "I don't give a damn about Koizumi" or the sort.

[ellimist]

hmmm...i agree, he sounds as if he's getting progressively sarcastic. Meaning that the frequency of such comments as you've quoted are increasing. As for its relation to the translator...i'd say only he has the answer

[Umiman]

Tsk, if it's really Kyon progressing into a generic dipsh#t, I would never forgive Tanigawa. A major part of the appeal for this is Kyon's ability to form fantastic sentences.... not lazy, meaningless insults like that.

EDIT: I still think he sounds alot like HolyCow though, the spoken parts, not the narrated parts.

[HolyCow]

As for Kyon's speaking style start to resemble mine, well, since you've only seen me "talk" via forums/MSN, and Kyon "talk" via text, that might explain why. In other words, the way he "talks" might be influenced by my style of writing/translating, which you've seen me use in forums/MSN. I didn't notice

[Umiman]

And it's also your manner of speaking like that above which really, makes it quite clear that you're pissed at something.

Me? g u e s t? girlfriend? Don't know, don't care, but I hope it doesn't affect the text...

[HolyCow]

Huh? I'm really starting to get lost here...

What I meant was that since you've only seen me "talking" via MSN/forums, it's no surprise that Kyon "talks" the same way, since my "talk" is generally my style of writing, which in turn afftects the way "Kyon" talks. It's pretty much the same logic as to why two fansubs have different sounding subs although they carry the same meaning. It's probably because you've seen me post here more than the other translators that you sense a similarity between my posts and Kyon's way of talking.

[Umiman]

We already settled that didn't we? Yes, he sounds like you. I don't really mind .

What I'm more concerned about is anger / frustration / irritation warping the translations. I really can't recall a single moment in the novels as of this where Kyon actually uses such a crude insult in actual conversation with Itsuki.

The messages are still passed on though, I just doubt the choice of words. Practically every sentence that Kyon uses since the 20.1.2007 update becomes harsh and snide.

[HolyCow]

I've pointed the exert out to you right?

The word 傻瓜 can mean any of the below:

1diot, ,Fool, Moron. I choose moron over the two with no apparent reason, other than it sounds better IMO.

[Umiman]

Moron sounds much nicer than, "you moron".

It's basically the difference between, "f**k" and "you f**ker"

But that's only one of the incongruities of personality...

Like I said... practically every sentence, (most noticably those geared towards Itsuki) seems formed towards hostility. And I'm well aware of the tension of their relationship. It's just that instead of Kyon treating Itsuki with distrust, it's more like abusing arrogance this time around.

For example:

Ah, whatever. Just spill it.

I doubt the actual text can actually be this rude.

“So what do you think it is this time?”

Kyon may be sarcastic, but this is clearly outlandish arrogance.

Again, I don't really care about what has already been translated. I'm more worried about it affecting the message and future translations.

[HolyCow]

Ah, whatever. Just spill it.

什么都好，你说吧。

“So what do you think it is this time?”

“那么，你觉得这一次会是什么？”

"This time" refers to the dog incident Sakanaka-san brought up, just to clarify. It's not like he said "What is it this time?", which carries a different meaning.

Below are a few occassions of Kyon's insults:

Endless Eight, translated by shiratoriyuuko

Under the leadership of Haruhi, our motley crew toured the festival together. She made us her peons, saying, “Let’s eat that,” then, “Let’s try this.” Haruhi was enjoying herself, and so it seemed was Asahina-san, which made me happy. I couldn't tell if Nagato was having a good time, and I don’t give a damn about Koizumi’s experiences.

Snow Mountain Syndrome, by shiratoriyuuko

"Crap."
Haruhi, ahead of me, spells out what she really thinks.


Day of Sagittarius, by Kinny Riddle

"Ah...damn!" Koizumi shouted as well.

DISAPPEARANCE chapter 6, by Kinny Riddle

"BULL SH1T! Relay this message for me."

While my powers were as good as a useless bum, that 1diot Haruhi happened to possess enormous powers.

Observation target? Observation my @ss!


Melancholy of Mikuru, translated by me myself, very much earlier on:

“You f@#%ing b@st@rd!!”

I shot a killer glance at the speeding van and swore loudly.

“Don’t you know how to drive?! It’s bad enough to beat the red lights, but accelerating in a pedestrian crossing zone? Are you retarded? Are you trying to kill someone or something? Asahina-san, did you happen to see his license plate number?”


I'm not trying to discredit the other translators or anything, I'm just quoting them to show that Kyon has used such language before. No harm intended.

[Umiman]

Endless Eight:
1. Kyon did not say that directly to anyone.
2. "I don't give a damn" is not really an insult.

Snow Mountain Syndrome:
Huh... what does this have to do with anything? It's not even Kyon who's saying it.

Day of Sagittarius:
Again... it's not Kyon who says it... And isn't obvious that it's not even an insult directed at anyone?

Disappearance:
Really. This is Kyon caring about Yuki. This is nothing like expressively insulting and downplaying someone who just gave his opinion towards a question that was asked.

Melancholy of Mikuru:
Dude. He was nearly run over by a crazy van driver.


Alright. I'll avoid trying to skirt about the topic, since you don't get it, and say this as best as I can.

Don't let your anger or frustration or whatever that is bothering you affect your performance as a translator.

I can't say it more clearly than that. I don't give two shits about past insults that the novel uses nor do I care about accuracy to the Chinese language or the capabilities of other translators. It's so obvious from your mannerisms and translated text that something's up and you might not realise it, but certain words and certain sentence structures subconciously carries different meanings than you might have intended.

[HolyCow]

So, quotitng your saying "Kyon did not say this directly to anyone",

As Koizumi was muttering some complicated-sounding crap again

So was this.

You can skip trivial details like that.

Is this even considered an insult?

Ah, whatever. Just spill it.

This could be slightly insulting. Maybe "Ah, whatever, just get on with it" would sound better?

“So what do you think it is this time?”

You really misunderstood this one, see my post above.



I really have no idea which parts of the translation offended you, but if you feel that the language is abusive/twisted, feel free to correct them. There might be something going on that's affecting me subconsciously, I dunno, but if that's the case, then do correct my translation.

Flaws in translations are normal, that is why this site is based on a wiki, so that anyone who spots a mistake can go and edit it. Like Oni said in his 3rd email to me when I applied for the post, "If the reader's don't like anything, well they will edit it. Typographical revolution!".

If I was really pissed off at something, I wouldn't be translating anything. I treat translating the novels as a hobby and I don't think I would be sitting here translating/replying if I was indeed that frustrated.

[Umiman]

[over-the-top response not intended and deleted.] -umi.

[Umiman]

Right... I'm going to try to put these in a list so we can see what we're both getting at, since we don't understand one another.

You think I'm talking about:
1. Misuse of insults.
2. Your translations of the insults being more severe than normal.
3. Common silly things that can easily be corrected in post-translation editing.

I'm really talking about:
1. The effects a simple burst of anger (whether it's conciously done or not) might have on the message of the plot in question.
2. The longterm effects of having extreme emotional personal feelings go inside the text, again, warping the message.