Inaction has lasted long enough..aka 1st P.N.B-T.E.O.C.C.C.P

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Misogi
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Inaction has lasted long enough..aka 1st P.N.B-T.E.O.C.C.C.P

Post by Misogi »

1st Patriotic National Baka-Tsuki Elite Oligarchy Comrade Congress of the Common People

Transcript available here:

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index ... arch302014

******************************************
I don't know since when we are waiting for some changes or answers... but the more we use this forum (and the wiki), the more we get accustomed to problems. And that isn't normal at all.

Forced password changes, spambots, hellish questions instead of a strong captcha, groups loaded with random and/or inactive leaders... all of this is time-consuming and useless.

[Edit] Thanks to the admins' intervention and cloud's advice, an IRC discussion was planned for the 30/03. To improve the subjects' discussion, the issues and suggestions are sorted in order of priority, feasibility and time taken to discuss them.

Code: Wiki - Forum - Both

--

Wrong link leading to the wiki's Copyrights page.
Replace "http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/www.b ... Copyrights" with "http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index ... Copyrights".

When disapproving posts, cases are moved to the right because of an excessively long justification. Remove 4 of its five sentences.
You have been tested positive as a 100% whole-grain-fed-free-roaming organic Baka or have been diagnosed as a confirmed 100% off-the-charts lunatic.

We are only certified to handle 50% Stupidity and 50% Lunacy, therefore it is with sad regret that you will be placed upon the waiting list to be euthanized.

Fortunately, repeated reports of your condition will bump you up the list, so if you have received this message twice already, Congratulations!
You are now No.1 on the list!

Good bye bye and happy birthday! :)
Purge of all members created before 2014 and without a single message.
Some spam accounts are left unbanned.

Changes in the Protect function, the "supervisors/administrators only" option disappeared, and it's impossible for supervisors to edit pages with that setting.
This happened since the wiki update, and nothing at all was said regarding this matter.

Registration issues
- We need a captcha like reCaptcha (not necessarily it), not hellish questions nor banned IP ranges (which affects real users).
- For the forum, the captcha is needed for registration and guest posting. The pink users system and the periodical password change should be removed as a consequence, as they are too restrictive.
- For the wiki, it is only needed for registration.

Groups' reorganization
For the forum:
- Reorganize all of the groups' leaderships with the assistance of trustful members. Among them, remove the inactive ones, put active users and remove illogical choices.
- We especially need people able to unban users (Global Moderators).
- Additionally, we can create new Translator and Editor groups for Alternative Languages Contributors while cleaning up the lists. Leaving the current ones for English members.
For the wiki :
- Just removing inactive users from the Translator and Editor groups.

Sub-forums
- We could use rectangular thumbnails to shorten a bit the page, with half the current height.
- A reorgnization would be welcome. 3 sub-forums moved, merged or removed (Shana, KnS, SAO/AW), one created (Kamachi). It isn't a bad deal.
- Moving Shana in the Abandoned/Stalled section.
- Fusing CSR with KnS, removing Index.
- Moving SAO & AW in the Abandoned/Stalled section.
- Putting Index, Heavy Object, Zashiki and Survey in a sub-forum named "Works of Kazuma Kamachi". Or with another title, it's up to discussion.
- Renaming Daiden and Itsuten's subforum with "Works of Takaya Kagami". Same as above.
- Adding DAL's thumbnail. No changes on other subforums.
Modifying the guidelines by simplifying them and removing outdated rules.
Cloud summed up a lot of things, but it's still under construction. However, some things can be done now (links on main page).
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by Mystes »

- Fusing ZnT with Shana.
- Fusing CSR with KnS, removing Index.
- Moving SAO & AW's subforum in the Abandoned/Stalled section.
- Putting Index, Heavy Object, Zashiki and Survey in a sub-forum named "Works of Kazuma Kamachi".
- Renaming Daiden and Itsuten's subforum with "Works of Takaya Kagami".
- Adding DAL's thumbnail. No changes on other subforums.

3 sub-forums moved, merged or removed (Shana, KnS, SAO/AW), one created (Kamachi). It isn't a bad deal.
- I'm neutral for ZnT+Shana
- CSR will be a pain to remove from Index. It's been 5 years or something that they've been together.
- Completely agree for removing SAO and AW
- I believe "Works of Kamachi" was suggested at one time. But IIRC, it has been brought up that people go to the subforum to check for "Index" or "H.O.", not for "Works of Kamachi".
- Same as previous for DyD/Itsuten
- Yeah, that DAL sub has been thumbless for so long.
Kira0802

#campione at rizon for some #campione discussions~~ And other stuffs.
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by hayashi_s »

Kamachi Works wouldn't be that much of an issue as long as you retain the thumbnail or use index/misaka/whichever heroine is prominent.

Daiden/Istuten don't need a renaming until the author comes up with a 3rd/4th work.

Wiki issues is mostly up to tlg/oni, not much we can do
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by cloudii »

At the very least, the forum registration questions really need to be redone.

Out of curiosity, a few months ago I tried "creating a new account" and intentionally provided wrong answers to get a sampling of what questions are actually being offered to our new registrants.

I only got to five questions before I got locked, but a they're honestly ridiculous questions that you can't expect brand new members to know the answers to. Gosh, even we'd have difficulty with them. This is discounting variations in answers you could get from capitalization, spelling, etc.

What's definitely for sure is that the bots can get past them, because they're programs that are designed to keep trying. The real users get frustrated and end up giving up making a forum account. DarkoNeko still does not have a forum account because he can't get past registration (you can ask him on IRC).

--------

The other thing is that'd I'd really like the Wiki rules and guidelines to be moved away from the forums. The Wiki official rules (project startup guidelines, etc) should be on the Wiki. Why? Because most new members (and potential new members) don't know to check the forums. How is a new member who wants to start a new project supposed to know that the New Project Startup Guidelines is on the forums? How are people supposed to know the file name guidelines for uploading images when that forum post describing them is buried deep inside the Wiki Guidelines Forum?

IMO, the forums are an informal place. Some members really hate using the forums. We have to recognize that not all of our members read the forums and the rules that are posted here. That's the most compelling reason why the rules should be moved to the Wiki and maintained there. Wiki rules should be on the Wiki. Discussion of rules can go here, but official rules should be published in a visible, official place (the Wiki).
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Hiro Hayase
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by Hiro Hayase »

"Wiki rules and guidelines to be moved away from the forums"

I agree with that. Needs to be in a very noticeable place with easy access. Well new members typically start out as anonymous editors or readers on the wiki first, then they create an account to edit in projects with a registered wiki name, then later create a forum account to engage in discussions or chat after some time.
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by KuroiHikari »

Kira, can you make this a global announcement?
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by Arcsol93 »

cloud wrote:At the very least, the forum registration questions really need to be redone.

Out of curiosity, a few months ago I tried "creating a new account" and intentionally provided wrong answers to get a sampling of what questions are actually being offered to our new registrants.

I only got to five questions before I got locked, but a they're honestly ridiculous questions that you can't expect brand new members to know the answers to. Gosh, even we'd have difficulty with them. This is discounting variations in answers you could get from capitalization, spelling, etc.

What's definitely for sure is that the bots can get past them, because they're programs that are designed to keep trying. The real users get frustrated and end up giving up making a forum account. DarkoNeko still does not have a forum account because he can't get past registration (you can ask him on IRC).
Forgive me if I'm wrong but, there were supposed to be questions? I just joined here today and I never encountered anything like that. Just had to fill out the usual info for registering on a site and got on without a problem. (Save for the IP blacklisting weirdness.)

Though it was surprising how simple it was to get in, there really needs to be more security like capicha or (Sorry I don't know the name for it) this one where a picture is separated into puzzle pieces and once its done then you can submit a form. Just relying on the IP blocker could deter future users from joining from frustration, if anything there should be someone they could contact to appeal to since the situation seems pretty bad with the bots.
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by arczyx »

hayashi_s wrote:Daiden/Istuten don't need a renaming until the author comes up with a 3rd/4th work.
He already did with Mokushiroku Alice and Owari no Seraph novel (but no one translated it yet).
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by hayashi_s »

cloud wrote:At the very least, the forum registration questions really need to be redone.

What's definitely for sure is that the bots can get past them, because they're programs that are designed to keep trying. The real users get frustrated and end up giving up making a forum account. DarkoNeko still does not have a forum account because he can't get past registration (you can ask him on IRC).
he's just lazy to create one, last time I checked.
arczyx wrote: He already did with Mokushiroku Alice and Owari no Seraph novel (but no one translated it yet).
oh, in that case it should be done.
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by vallor »

Misogi wrote:- Do a clean-up of all members created before 2014 and without a single message.
It was asked for a long time, as some spam accounts are among them.
This should be done as soon as possible. I mean, the longer we wait, the bigger will be the number of accounts. Do it right now would be quite annoying, but wait any longer would make it worse.
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by Aska »

Misogi wrote:For instance, Aska and Code-Zero are mainly translators, but they are Editor leaders...
Actually, I never understood..

One of the best points I can only say "+1" would be this one.
Misogi wrote:- Putting Index, Heavy Object, Zashiki and Survey in a sub-forum named "Works of Kazuma Kamachi".
In the same way, I think that we could create more sub-forums for LNs. Golden Time, Infinite Stratos and some few others are waiting. There are hidden from the viewers. Yes it would be plenty of sub-forums, that is why I completly agree with Misogi on this "half-solution".
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by KuroiHikari »

-Have active admins

-Redo the mod rights of every group: There are some subforum that 1 group have certain rights but the other don't.

-Bring back guest posting as long as it's with a image-based captcha.
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by Misogi »

For the authors sub-forums, it's because they have done more than 3-4 series. Hence the idea (proposed before DAL got its sub-forum).
cloud wrote:At the very least, the forum registration questions really need to be redone. [...]

The other thing is that'd I'd really like the Wiki rules and guidelines to be moved away from the forums. [...]
Putting a captcha will replace the questions. I added your second statement, as it's true that guidelines are scattered here and there...
KuroiHikari wrote:Kira, can you make this a global announcement?
Done.
Aska wrote:In the same way, I think that we could create more sub-forums for LNs. Golden Time, Infinite Stratos and some few others are waiting. There are hidden from the viewers. Yes it would be plenty of sub-forums, that is why I completly agree with Misogi on this "half-solution".
It's not needed for now.
KuroiHikari wrote:-Have active admins
-Redo the mod rights of every group: There are some subforum that 1 group have certain rights but the other don't.
-Bring back guest posting as long as it's with a image-based captcha.
- Hence the group reorganization.
- The FSB was like a patch for the ALF's management, so it has to be checked. I also remember that guests can freely post in the ALF, without approval.
- First point listed.

I've anso added a line regarding the one-week deadline for new projects. If cautr or cloud can tell me what is the situation with the Pending, Teasers and Approved Projects, it'd help.
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by KuroiHikari »

When I said admins, I meant these group of people
memberlist.php?mode=group&g=1288

or maybe these group of people
memberlist.php?mode=group&g=1287
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Re: Inaction has lasted long enough...

Post by denormative »

Aska wrote:
Misogi wrote:- Putting Index, Heavy Object, Zashiki and Survey in a sub-forum named "Works of Kazuma Kamachi".
In the same way, I think that we could create more sub-forums for LNs. Golden Time, Infinite Stratos and some few others are waiting. There are hidden from the viewers. Yes it would be plenty of sub-forums, that is why I completly agree with Misogi on this "half-solution".
It's not a good idea IMO. It just creates author ghettos where if you don't currently read the author's works, you never find out that the author has written another series that you might like. This just happened for me with that Apocalypse Alice series, so I'm a mite annoyed at the moment with it. :?

Plus the forum icons are tiny as they are; squeezing all the series' images into them is going to be a challenge.
- Fusing ZnT with Shana.
- Fusing CSR with KnS, removing Index.
- Moving SAO & AW's subforum in the Abandoned/Stalled section.
- Putting Index, Heavy Object, Zashiki and Survey in a sub-forum named "Works of Kazuma Kamachi".
- Renaming Daiden and Itsuten's subforum with "Works of Takaya Kagami".
- Adding DAL's thumbnail. No changes on other subforums.

3 sub-forums moved, merged or removed (Shana, KnS, SAO/AW), one created (Kamachi). It isn't a bad deal.
Shana's officially stalled, there's no point merging it with ZnT which is still being slowly translated. Not to mention it's nonsensical since the only similarity between the two series' is a Tsundere voiced in the anime by the same VA. Toss Shana into the Aux/Stalled though.

We shouldn't move SAO+AW's forum into Aux/Stalled until there's an official word on what's happening and when. As far as I know it's currently still allowed to be translated if I'm remembering the postings in the Admin forum right. The first volume of SAO is coming out next month though, so the word from on high should come out soon as to it's fate I guess.

Honestly if the complaint is the main page is too long, then the solution is simple: halve the height of the forum images so they're a rectangle. The forum entries are twice the height they should be just because of that. Everyone gets to make/vote for new forum icons, along with creating proper @2x sized ones for HiDPI devices (I assume phpbb has support for it, the latest upgrade of mediawiki handles it automagically with it's new thumbnails), and everyone's happy! :P
Kira0802 wrote:- I believe "Works of Kamachi" was suggested at one time. But IIRC, it has been brought up that people go to the subforum to check for "Index" or "H.O.", not for "Works of Kamachi".
- Same as previous for DyD/Itsuten
- Yeah, that DAL sub has been thumbless for so long.
+1 for all three.
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