Project Plea : Kore wa Zombie desu ka?

[yFSC]

Ah, Kore wa Zombie desu ka?, another one of my favorites from this season. I hear the LN is better, which seems to be the case with a lot of shows.

I wouldn't mind seeing a translation, it's a fun series. If someone put in the hard work of translating it I'd be glad to help edit.

[Guest]

The novel... Surprisingly better than my initial expectation (As of this post, 7 vol). At first, I seriously thought that this was a crap ==.
Though I'm not sure if everyone can digest this type of story..

Well, KwZ isn't too bad though I was sceptical too at the begining. But the novels made me roll of laughter, so...

Well, let's hope for a translator in the near future...

In fact I'm addicted to it, lol. I'll hope the serious goes better as it goes.

[Guest]

Ah, Kore wa Zombie desu ka?, another one of my favorites from this season. I hear the LN is better, which seems to be the case with a lot of shows.

I wouldn't mind seeing a translation, it's a fun series. If someone put in the hard work of translating it I'd be glad to help edit.

The anime has most of the event from LN re-arranged, and have some events and details cut off (which I feel it's important). Personally I like the LN more, but I can say the anime re-arrangement has it's own merit.

[Mystes]

Well, I think that compared to IS, KwZ's adaption isn't so bad. After all, though sometimes important details are skipped, I get the feeling that the anime will put in season 2 the necessary details.

[Kadi]

I'm against turning this into a project. I watch the anime because of the comedy, and I doubt we'll find a good enough translator to properly convey that. Actually, I can't imagine in the first place how Ayumu's delusions of Yuu could ever work in the novel, and you want me to believe just anyone can translate those properly? Unless those delusions are anime only. Mehh, whatever, too risky, too likely to be disappointed.

Short: 99% against it, unless we find a great translator

[Mystes]

I'm against turning this into a project. I watch the anime because of the comedy, and I doubt we'll find a good enough translator to properly convey that. Actually, I can't imagine in the first place how Ayumu's delusions of Yuu could ever work in the novel, and you want me to believe just anyone can translate those properly? Unless those delusions are anime only. Mehh, whatever, too risky, too likely to be disappointed.

Short: 99% against it, unless we find a great translator

I think that in the novels, Yuu's dialogue is shown in a different form of bullets. Delusions are there too.

Well, translators aren't the ones you can see coming; like lightning, you only knows it when it hits.

[Darklor]

Short: 99% against it, unless we find a great translator

Since translation here is about volunteers any translator who like to translate this series is welcome here (even if he isnt the greatest as long as it is read- and understandable (so that editors can work with it))

[Kadi]

Short: 99% against it, unless we find a great translator

Since translation here is about volunteers any translator who like to translate this series is welcome here (even if he isnt the greatest as long as it is read- and understandable (so that editors can work with it))

And that's where you're wrong. Because, you know, how do you expect an editor to reconstruct the jokes that the translator screwed up? Apart from that, good editors are even rarer than good translators, and even they couldn't fix it unless they cross-check with the RAWs, and the existence of such editors has yet to be proven. Apart from Aorii, anyways, Aorii's god.
By the way, I'm not referring to the translator screwing up as in "woops, the grammar/sentence structure is slightly off", but screwing up as in "the words central to the joke are absolutely, completely missing without a freaking trace". And yes, I have seen just that happen with anime subbing at least.

Sorry for ranting. Point being, when the translator is bad, editors can't do shit to save the day, especially when it comes to comedy. Now, since I'd attack you personally if I wrote any more, I'll stop here.

Examples may or may not have been slightly exaggerated.

P.S.: You may have been right about BT accepting all translators that hand in more or less readable translations. My mistake there. Rest of my arguments against a bad non-great translator picking this up still stand.

[Mystes]

Fuuu~~A very heated discussion^_^.

Well, seriously, KwZ isn't like the Monogatari series, so jokes aren't too hard to translate, but I think it's rather proper terms for the translations that will cause the problems. Yeah, I'm an eternal optimist+sarcastic (which isn't a good mix), but I still believe that translators are like lightning, you never know when they'll hit. I bet that when XXXXXXXX (name censored) registered, we didn't think that he would become one of the most popular translator in BT. You need to go with it, and live with it. If a translator decides to quit BT after 2 months, too bad. If a translator becomes a franchise translator, then great. We're not paying anyone here, and even so, there are people volunteering.

Well, I don't mind argueing a bit, since I receive enough spam letters in my mailbox, and being attacked personnaly won't change something in my impression on you, nor BT.

Oh yeah, translator rules are pretty light, so I don't think that you need to do something important or to have skills. We CAN privilege Quality over Quantity, and I approve that. I'm not the kind of person who likes mass-production. OK yeah, I love projects running fast. But still, get some translators, raise them in the BT slavery (XD) and they'll give you decent works. If we don't accept any new translators, BT could slowly die, and noone wishes that.

Fuaaaah~~Finished!

[dragonst]

Watch your tone, Kadi. I would advise you to refrain from using big words without substantiation. You have not defined what a 'great translator' is, nor have you given any specific examples of the degree of difficulty in translating the comedy in the novel to english to support your argument in any way. That rant was completely uncalled for.

B-T is a community where translators translate because they want to, not because someone told them that they're a great translator or that they can perfectly translate comedy to english (something which is impossible to do, given the different cultural context that the novel is written in). I don't think there's a problem if a newbie translator wants to take up this series, as long as he's willing to put in his best effort in translating and referencing the jokes. If he's really stuck, then he could ask the more experienced translators around the forum, I should think that there're at least two translators with JLPT N2 or higher so there really shouldn't be any problem.

[Mystes]

What's JLPT N2 BTW? Though I might have come across it, I don't know its meaning...

[dragonst]

Japanese Language Proficiency Test. N5 is the lowest grade, N1 is the highest.

[Mystes]

I see...when someone gets an N2, it's equal to which grade in normal Japan school?

[dragonst]

About a second or third-rate university level I should think. N5 is primary school level, N4 is middle school level, and N3 is high school level, if I remember correctly. N1 is top-class university standard.

[Kadi]

I could write a novel myself if I addressed every single point you mentioned. Therefore I will start at the beginning and try to lay out my point of view in a civilized and hopefully easy-to-understand manner.

I like the anime adaption of KwZ. Therefore, I want to enjoy a possible LN translation as much as possible, too. To enjoy it, the translation needs to be good. A good translation needs a good translator, and since the quality of the translator is not a given, I voted no and stated my reason in the first post.

Darklor replied how B-T accepts almost anyone who's willing,which is true, and how editing can fix anything afterwards, which is wrong.

Darklor's post led to my heated reply, where I tried to explain how he was wrong and how people can fail to translate in ways that no available editor can correct, apart from Aorii (for translations from Chinese). I concluded that my reasons for how I don't want just anyone to translate this still stand.
The language used may have been inappropriate for that cause, but apart from 3x "screwing up", one "can't do shit" and one "freakin", it is rather tame. And I said that I was exaggerating. I think the most problematic part is how I mentioned that I could write more/attacked darklor personally. I guess that didn't work out as intended.

To get a little more specific:

• No examples how the comedy in KwZ is difficult to translate: I haven't read KwZ, my Japanese isn't good enough yet to read LNs. Therefore I can't give specific examples. Instead, I mentioned how people can fail at translating anime in ways that no editor can correct. Since anime are generally easier to translate that LNs (I understand anime rather well), such translators should also fail to translate LNs, so the example/reason is viable.
• Great translator: Someone who produces enjoyable/high-level translations, I guess. I want to enjoy the read, after all. And the difference between good or at least enjoyable translations and bad ones is one I hopefully don't have to explain. What I don't want are those "mistakes no editor can fix"
• No substantiation: I had a point. I had a reason for it, which I gave. I also gave an, albeit general, applicable example. Do you call that "no substantiation"?
• Easier than ~monogatari-series: Maybe so, but then again, anime are even easier, and some translators still manage to make incorrigible mistakes.

Now, does BT accept all willing translators? Yes, and for most projects, I don't care about it. For KwZ, I do care about it, and that's why I'm posting here.
Is it enough if a translator does his best and asks for help when he's really stuck? We can probably argue a lot on this one. I say no, it's not enough if you want a good translation. Because they won't even recognize many of the mistakes they make, or they won't ask because they'd have to ask too much, or because they don't think they are really stuck. There's got to be a reason why there are so many bad Jp->En-translations out there. I won't give examples here, because it's too difficult/time-intensive for me to read LN RAWs to substantiate them for LNs and there are too many when it comes to anime/manga. And I don't think those people aren't giving it their best.

PS/Edit: Since I've laid out my point of view, I'd like to continue any discussions not about KwZ via pm's or in a separate topic. There are enough posts not about KwZ in here already.