computer translation

[r2kordmaa]

for many projects there just isnt enough manpower to finish them(example: goth) also many great novels never get started beacause of that. can atlas translation be done by non-japanese speakers ?
with resorting to computer translation we could produce atleast some results in many projects rather than none. while more popular projects can still be done with manual translation with others we should atleast get them translated. there are many novels that i personally would like to see translated its just that noone has time to translate every good book and only few are selected. ppl who use atlas could answer to this thread and we could put togheter a package with atlas and dictionaries so the less IT knowlagable but still eager translators would have a chance to help out

[Smidge204]

I get the feeling this was discussed before. I'm opposed to it for two reasons:

First, machine translations are at best incomplete and at worst extremely misleading. Anything but the simplest writing style typically gets mangled in both vocabulary and structure.

Second, if there is nobody to translate it in the first place, there is nobody to proofread it. Proofreading machine translated text requires that it be human-translated. Why do the work twice? You're just taking up space with what will be mostly nonsense until someone actually gets around to translating it properly.

It's also very unprofessional IMHO. It would create the sense that we just don't care. It's guaranteed to sit for months looking like a festering pile of vomit while some moron makes unauthorized PDFs and torrents them all over the Internet. Not worth the pain and aggravation.
=Smidge=

[HolyCow]

I don't really like the idea of a machine translation either, but I think a draft regarding it has been put up somewhere.

Nevertheless, if you're worried about the GOTH project, I'll try to see if I can get any done this upcoming sem break. Until then, I would like for anyone to refrain from posting a machine translated chapter of GOTH for the time being.

Sorry if I sound overtly bossy but I'm just not comfortable with the idea of machine translations, GOTH in particular since that's a novel I really would like to work on.

[Vaelis]

I don't really like the idea of a machine translation either, but I think a draft regarding it has been put up somewhere.

There is something about ~Preview~ with machine translations here: http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1705

[r2kordmaa]

its not just bout goth, there are tens of novels in Future Project Suggestions that would be worth translateing, its just that they never will be.
id say bad translation beats none at all any time, also proofreading can be done without knowing japanese, there might be few gliches here and there but atleast the novel reaches the readers, will never happen without it

lets just make preview projects out of em or smth, to indicate they arent quite the real things but id still love to see some results. quality is priceless but quantity is worth smth aswell

we might not resort to machine translation when there is someone willing to manually translate some novel(goth - holycow for example) but the ones that wouldnt go anywhere without it..... id say theres nothing to lose machine translateing em, for example:

http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1498 - Higurashi no Naku Koro ni light novels

http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1621 - Goshuushou-sama Ninomiya-kun

http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1365 - Ginban Kaleidoscope

now these are just my personal faworites, i think everyone has their own but i think you get the point, the ideas in the topics are good, still noone does em. with machine translations they could atleast get translated somehow. not that its no work at all, but if you could do it without speaking japanese... there are just more ppl who could do it

lets say theres some novel id like to see translated but noone else really cares, i can just get started and single handedly do it. if its translated there will be readers for it, its just that not many ppl want to do it themselves, too much work, japanese skill required etc

with machine translations all that are really needed are raws. it can be done without tens of ppl working on it

[Smidge204]

*cleans up naughty posts, puts mop away*


Anyway.


Perhaps - and this is just my opinion and it will likely backfire horribly - giving priority to novels that *aren't* massively popular anime series might be a good direction. I know it's asking a lot for people to read something that they aren't already intimately, nauseatingly familiar with but the prospect of having something that you can't get anywhere else is quite alluring.

Come for the Haruhi, stay for the other stuff you never knew existed!
=Smidge=

[r2kordmaa]

well thats what the problem with giving priority to non-popular novels, you aren't just telling ppl to read em, you are telling ppl to work hard to translate smth they arent even that interested in, its all voulantary work here noone will do smth they dont really want to.

[Smidge204]

well thats what the problem with giving priority to non-popular novels, you aren't just telling ppl to read em, you are telling ppl to work hard to translate smth they arent even that interested in, its all voulantary work here noone will do smth they dont really want to.

I don't recall ever advocating slave labor. Of course we can't force people to translate things, but clearly there is some interest in doing otherwise not-so-popular novels. I'm saying we should promote these more if only for the fact that they are more unique. As a community, I think it would be great to have a "help me with this I'll help you with that" mentality.


Also, you dropped these: 'eoetheoeoeing''oeing'.
=Smidge=

[Momogan]

Machine translations will have errors. This is a snippet taken from ZnT:

異世界・ハルケギニアに使い魔として「召喚」されてしまった才人。可愛いけれど魔法の才能はゼロのご主人様・ルイズとともに、アンリエッタ王女から頼まれた任務を無事果たした。ルイズは自分を守るために戦ってくれた才人を意識しはじめ、着替えや洗濯を自分でやったりして、ちょっぴり優しく接するようになる。だが、才人は急に変わったルイズの態度に「嫌われて警戒されてる……」と勘違いして卑屈になってしまい、全然かみ合わない毎日が続いていた。そんな折、ルイズはアンリエッタの結婚式の巫女役を仰せつかる。巫女は『始祖の祈祷書』を持って詔をとなえるのが役目で、ルイズは学院長から『始祖の祈祷書』を預かるが……

Babelfish Translation:

The smart whom the strange worldwide hull you use in Guinea and as a demon "is summoned". However it is lovely, your zero masters with ルイズ, the duty which is asked from the アンリエッタking woman safety it carried out the talent of magic. It reaches the point where ルイズ starts being conscious of the smart who fights in order for you to protect by your, change and the laundry by your do, little bit kindly touches. But the smart in attitude of ルイズ which changes suddenly "being disliked, being cautious, the る......" with misunderstanding, became servile, every day when it is not connected at all was continued. Such a time, shrine maiden part of wedding of アンリエッタorder you drive ルイズ. The shrine maiden begins ' and advocating the 詔 the prayer book of the ancestor/founder ' with with function, ' begins ルイズ from institute leader and the prayer book of the ancestor/founder ' keeps but......


Actual Translation:

Saito had been summoned to Halkeginia, another world, as a familiar. With his master, Louise, who is cute, but with absolutely zero talent in magic, they complete the task entrusted to them by princess Henrietta. Louise starts to grow more aware of Saito, who fought for the sake of protecting her. Putting on clothes herself, doing the laundry herself, she starts to treat him a little more nicely. However, Saito mistakenly sees this sudden change in attitude as being disliked and thinks Louise is being cautious around him. He becomes completely servile and days where they would not fight with each other would continue on. Meanwhile, Louise is appointed as the maiden at Henrietta's wedding ceremony. As the maiden bears the duty of reading out the edict from the Founder's Prayer book, Louise is entrusted with the Founder's Prayer book by the academy's headmaster. However...


Compared to other novels, ZnT is written very simply/clearly as well.

It's also very unprofessional IMHO. It would create the sense that we just don't care. It's guaranteed to sit for months looking like a festering pile of vomit while some moron makes unauthorized PDFs and torrents them all over the Internet. Not worth the pain and aggravation.
=Smidge=

Agree.

[velocity7]

for many projects there just isnt enough manpower to finish them(example: goth) also many great novels never get started beacause of that. can atlas translation be done by non-japanese speakers ?
with resorting to computer translation we could produce atleast some results in many projects rather than none. while more popular projects can still be done with manual translation with others we should atleast get them translated. there are many novels that i personally would like to see translated its just that noone has time to translate every good book and only few are selected. ppl who use atlas could answer to this thread and we could put togheter a package with atlas and dictionaries so the less IT knowlagable but still eager translators would have a chance to help out

I bolded the part here.

Do you know how bad machine translations are?

[r2kordmaa]

i dont really have babelfish in mind here actually, rather smth more proffesional like atlas. take a look at the previews at znt project for example.
the custom dictionries etc can make it work, it needs some human help but atleast one doesnt have to do all the translating

[Smidge204]

It really wouldn't help, though, and that's the problem. Machine translation is completely unreliable, even the professional grade ones. What you're goign to end up doing is filling in the pages with text that likely has little resemblence of to the actual story. It would also hurt Baka-Tsuki's reputation as a translating group.

Edit: Although I'd prefer to distinguish BT as a "community" rather than a "group"...
=Smidge=

[r2kordmaa]

well, i think i'll still make a try for it, but its kinda difficult with me knowing only few words in japanese and understand nothing of kanji nor even kana

[velocity7]

If you would like to become a translator, I would highly suggest you get hiragana and katakana memorized, then learn vocabulary and kanji...

[Jumpyshoes]

I still haven't seen a machine translation up to par with a serious human translation. And like Smidge said, machine translations are completely unreliable. Maybe some day in the not so near future, it will be, but for now, it sucks...