Haruhi is great, thanks to all translators!

[Kaisos Erranon]

I'm... I'm not even going to bother arguing with you...

A shame really, since your thoughts are really close to really I used to think a while ago before I started studying linguistics theory, but if you don't want to continue discussing it's ok.

BTW, fighting against language inconsistencies is something that professional translators, heck, any translator has to do as part of their daily work. You cannot expect any two languages, even those who are lnguistically close, to be perfectly equivalent in all their senses, the translator must put some work forth so that the essence of the message is always translated, and that is the beauty itself of making a translation.

IMHO expecting the audience to have some previous knowledge is the easy way out for the translator, and the wrong economic model for the industry. It works for fansubs precisely because a fansub premise is being "by fans for fans", which is not the case of a profesional translation.

On a second read, I think I didn't make this other point clear. Why do I think cathering literate subs for an existing audience is a losing formula. Isn't this like accepting from the start that your market won't grow further than the already established fanbase, and that you aren't even making an effort to make it grow? Isn't it like leaving all your marketing efforts to the febble light of fansubbing? IMHO I can't see this working. Taking a look at the other side, and making more proper translations would make the title interest to other potential consumers, appease the not-literate-fansubs-pro fans, and only anger a very little group.

Don't misunderstand me though, from a very personal POV I prefer the more literal tranlations. As a translator in the training I only watch fansubs for the ocassional scene that I didn't understand because of the difficult lingo, and as such I prefer when I read word for word what did they mean since that helps me more in my study. However I have to be open enough to understand why the licensors choose otherwise

Yeah, I do understand what you're getting at here.

My only real issue in this is that, when series are licensed, most fansubbers stop distributing for legal reasons. This is a problem for me because I prefer to hear the original audio and have fan-made, literal translations, rather than translations created for a broader audience.

[quigonkenny]

I think people are blowing this a little out of proportion. First of all, Bandai doesn't translate novels, as far as I know, as they're having a hard enough time making money selling DVDs and Gundam merch.

Okay, they're making a killing selling Gundam merch, but not a lot making DVDs.

I don't see the Haruhi novels getting licensed by anyone other than Del Rey or Tokyopop, or Kadokawa Shoten may expand their USA branch into printed media and publish it themselves. The only other company I can think of that has published anime-related novels in the US is Viz, but considering their Japanese parent company is one of Kadokawa's direct competitors, I don't think that we have to worry about that.

I don't see too much of a problem with either company licensing the work. I've read the first 6 Slayers novels and the first FMP! novel, all released by Tokyopop, and they have been both faithful at least to the anime material, with enough differences to tell me where the two media have diverged, being all I have to compare them with, and very well translated. There was no "Miss Lina" or "Miss Kaname" (although I think Sousuke calls her "Miss Chidori" for the entire book, which fits him very well) and although the common honorifics have been removed (like "-san" or "-kun" or "-chan") fitting translations (like Lord, or Lady, or Princess, or Sergeant, etc.) have been inserted in place of an equivalent less common honorific (like "-dono", or "-ojousama", or "-hime", or "-gunsou"), and the family name vs. given name use has stayed fittingly appropriate (except possibly in the case of Slayers, but as that's set in a proto-medieval European-style world with very casual characters, it'd sound fairly odd in English).

I haven't read any of the Del Rey light-novel adaptations (I think they have xxxHolic and a couple of other licenses I've never heard of), but I've read their Negima! (all so far) and Mushi-shi (first two) manga adaptations, and except for some jarring "adaptation" by a name author in the first few volumes of the former (it was their first manga work, and it is very evident since then that they learned their lesson), they have kept very close to the original material, and are quite faithful (even, to a point, during the disasterous first few volumes of Negima!) with the honorifics (all of them) and first name/given name usage.

Keep in mind that the reason most anime dubbers change "Mikuru-chan", for example, to "Miss Mikuru", instead of "Mikuru" (which is of course the closest English can get to an exact translation), is so the mouth flaps match up, which is not a problem with a novel translation. I do agree that keeping the dub as "Mikuru-chan" (or most anything, for that matter) would be better than "Miss Mikuru", especially if the setting is in Japan (outside of Japan, with no Japanese characters, I think it works better to completely ignore the honorific, like Cowboy Bebop did), you do have to keep in mind that they are in the business to make money. Considering their supposed core audience has likely already seen the material in one form or fashion, and (with few exceptions) is going to find anything they can to nitpick the dub for so they can refuse to buy it "out of principle" (don't even try to deny it happens, just read through two forum pages of any licensed anime on Animesuki), the dub companies have to find a way to expand the audience. There's a lot of people out there who love to see violence and pretty animation, but cringe and change the channel any time they're reminded that "this wasn't made in the Good Ol' US of A", and they (and their parents) have a lot of disposable income. Anime tends to usually have either violence or pretty animation. Just check the [adult swim] forums some time (not for too long, please, for your own sanity) and you'll see what I mean.

But, don't give up hope, as there is still one bastion left for the animelitist, and that is the sub track, where they let the people who actually know how to speak the language translate (usually) and tend to keep the honorifics (again, usually).

And anyone who didn't like the Haruhi dub either hasn't watched enough of it to see just how good a dub it was (it wasn't Bebop, but it was still darn well-acted) or is just "nitpick[ing] the dub...so they can refuse to buy it 'out of principle'".

[IrishHaremOtaku]

I've watched a considerable amount of the Haruhi dub, and it makes me want to throw my guts up every time.

If I wanted to listen to a god damn west hollywood whiny-Mikuru voice actors, I'd go to west hollywood.

[ainsoph9]

Umm...why do you keep on watching the dub then? I mean, if it is making you feel nauseated like it does me, would it not be best to stop? That is, unless you are into the whole masochism thing...

[IrishHaremOtaku]

I did stop. At episode 5. In disgust.

[shichinanatsu]

i guess it's a good thing SHnY hasn't been licensed for phil release.. i mean, seriously, the dubbers here make any new anime sound like a pinoy rendition of animax-dubbed anime, which for the record really sucks..

[Lumbargo]

I have to say that I thought they got the two guys in the American dub release pretty damn close, especially Kyon, who needs to be a good voice because of the sheer amount of narration we hear him do. Nobody can match Sugita though. > <

The girls, though, are almost universally way off.

[Fushichou]

You seriously think they got the guys close? Dude...bleh...

[shichinanatsu]

..kinda reminds me of how onegai teacher was dubbed for US release.. i mean, they managed to somehow decently dub kazami mizuho (inoue kikuko-san), but as with kusanagi kei (hoshi souichirou-san, also kira yamato of gundam seed).. meh.. he sounded so much like a WIMP

[ainsoph9]

I would like to know how they were able to find someone who could do that bell-like tonal voice that Inoue Kikuko does. She is one of the seiyuu that I can tell almost immediately because of that voice. As for Kusunagi Kei, characters of his type almost always come across as wimps anyhow, so why not accentuate that?

[shichinanatsu]

that was a bit different.. while they might have been somehow able to do inoue kikuko-san justice in onegai teacher, because it's a bit different from her title role (belldandy-dono).. as for hoshi souichirou-san, well, i did remember hearing that though kira yamato had a different voice actor, he was still like a WIMP..

but i'm straying.. haruhi's dubbed by wendee lee right? i just don't understand why, because haruhi's not all hype, and she isn't childish either.. makes me remember one of ms lee's other 'failed' jobs, suu of love hina..