The Kyon Theory

[cicero225]

Let's just drop this whole wetware computer thing...suffice to say, Mikuru has something in her brain which keeps her from saying secret stuff and connects her to the future internets. As for the flesh golem thing, that's just semantics. Yuki and the other interfaces are organic beings built by the IDSE with a specific purpose in mind. Yuki and the others also exert a significant degree of independence, up to disobeying orders completely. The original definition of golem involved the creator having absolute control over the golem and the golem having no soul/will of its own. More recently, the definition of golem often leaves that aspect out entirely, though it might not.

Spoiler! :

as for mikuru (both versions), well.. they seem to have advanced enough to at least utilize time travel efficiently, but if we're really talking about the evolutionary race, then with all the scant knowledge we have they're still quite behind. if haruhi is in fact the first post-human ever in haruhi-verse, then there are also quite a number of people who somehow exhibit post-human-like characteristics but do not qualify as such. first off would be yuki; she's still very much a humanoid interface, albeit she continues to show 'humane-ness'. a doubtful second would be koizumi (and all the others in the 'Agency), since the only sign they have of being different is their ability to understand haruhi's thought processes, and anticipating anything weird she has in mind. and if i'm allowed to speculate, glasses kid also qualifies, or perhaps, will qualify. mikuru (big) did tell kyon that the kid will have a hand at developing time travel and the TPDDs, or perhaps their predecessors. also, kyon realized that the kid might have come across a copy of the Lit Club/SOS Dan's journal, and will probably keep thinking about what haruhi wrote until he comes to his senses and does something about it.

lastly, mikuru's seeming lack of wits - aside from her inherent nature - comes from the big-as-her-assets restrictions put on her by her boss (apparently her older self). if this is anything to go by, something tragic might happen during the life of the SOS Dan. in order to preserve the set of events that led to the time travelers' present/SOS Dan's future, mikuru deliberately prohibited herself from the knowledge that would convince her to change history, if only to save her beloved (i'm assuming of course..) kyon and the rest of her friends in North High from whatever that tragedy may be. (remember her requests to kyon, please don't get too close to me.. and don't tell her about me..)

I'm pretty sure Yuki would qualify as post-human in the sense of "is no longer bound by what are currently fundamental parts of the human condition", but maybe not if you have the requirement that they also show all necessary human traits such as emotion.
Not to harp on this, but adult-mikuru's motives do seem like they will end up conflicting with those of the SOS-dan (I think her motives have to do with preserving her future). Koizumi's "speech of loyalty" in Snow Mountain seem to foreshadow similar conflicts with the esper group. And then the IDSE has "rogue elements"...with these kinds of allies, are enemies even necessary?

[AuraTwilight]

It doesn't bother me if you keep spouting words that prove my point.

Like what?

Let's just drop this whole wetware computer thing...suffice to say, Mikuru has something in her brain which keeps her from saying secret stuff and connects her to the future internets. As for the flesh golem thing, that's just semantics. Yuki and the other interfaces are organic beings built by the IDSE with a specific purpose in mind. Yuki and the others also exert a significant degree of independence, up to disobeying orders completely. The original definition of golem involved the creator having absolute control over the golem and the golem having no soul/will of its own. More recently, the definition of golem often leaves that aspect out entirely, though it might not.

Plenty of golems in ancient mythology have had total free will. It was part of a moral lesson about hubris.

I'm pretty sure Yuki would qualify as post-human in the sense of "is no longer bound by what are currently fundamental parts of the human condition", but maybe not if you have the requirement that they also show all necessary human traits such as emotion.

Yuki has plenty of emotions.

Not to harp on this, but adult-mikuru's motives do seem like they will end up conflicting with those of the SOS-dan (I think her motives have to do with preserving her future). Koizumi's "speech of loyalty" in Snow Mountain seem to foreshadow similar conflicts with the esper group. And then the IDSE has "rogue elements"...with these kinds of allies, are enemies even necessary?

I don't think Adult Mikuru will become part of a conflict. If anything, she'd be on the Brigade's side as opposed to The Big Boss Men.

[Rectifier]

I'm dropping it because it isn't helping with continued discussion about what will happen in volume 10.

My theory? Everybody gets married in the end because its a comedy.

[cicero225]

Plenty of golems in ancient mythology have had total free will. It was part of a moral lesson about hubris.

I stand corrected about the golems. Though I was pretty sure the original origin had to do with Jewish mythology about alchemists which can take earth and breath and create life, but without a soul (ie will). Then again, I am getting this from a modern author lovecraft/holmes crossover story =/...but I have heard bits and pieces elsewhere.

Yuki has plenty of emotions.

Shichinanatsu seems to be using some definition of posthuman which involves post-humans having human emotions, etc. whereas I personally would say posthumans might be excused for not having fear, anger, etc. I'm saying that you can say yuki is not posthuman only by pointing out (not necessarily correctly) that she was not originally human, or doesn't have human emotions.
Bleh. My logic is too convoluted. My opinion is that Yuki is easily posthuman, even if her birth was not exactly normal.

I don't think Adult Mikuru will become part of a conflict. If anything, she'd be on the Brigade's side as opposed to The Big Boss Men.

I tend to have a more negative view of Adult Mikuru. Someone on this forum once speculated that she is the time traveler's group, or at least the leader, since we certainly haven't seen anyone else. We simply don't have enough information to really judge so it's more about gut feelings about what kind of person Adult Mikuru is. Kyon doesn't get good vibes...

I'm dropping it because it isn't helping with continued discussion about what will happen in volume 10.

My theory? Everybody gets married in the end because its a comedy

That's just the thing. This is the "Kyon Theory" thread. Heh oh well.
Hmm, so in that scenario: Kyon x Haruhi, Mikuru x Koizumi, Nagato x Computer Society President, Tsuruya x Kunikida, Kimidori x Taniguchi, Imouto-chan x uh...student council president?

[AuraTwilight]

I stand corrected about the golems. Though I was pretty sure the original origin had to do with Jewish mythology about alchemists which can take earth and breath and create life, but without a soul (ie will). Then again, I am getting this from a modern author lovecraft/holmes crossover story =/...but I have heard bits and pieces elsewhere.

While Jews developed the modern Golem, the origin of the "golem" concept actually originated in Mesatopian mythology (Abrahamic faiths rip them off at every turn), in which a mortal tried to be like the Gods and got pwned by his creation.

Shichinanatsu seems to be using some definition of posthuman which involves post-humans having human emotions, etc. whereas I personally would say posthumans might be excused for not having fear, anger, etc. I'm saying that you can say yuki is not posthuman only by pointing out (not necessarily correctly) that she was not originally human, or doesn't have human emotions.
Bleh. My logic is too convoluted. My opinion is that Yuki is easily posthuman, even if her birth was not exactly normal.

An artificial intelligence is accepted as posthuman in "Technological Singularity" enthusiasts. I'm positive Yuki would be counted in that category, and a running theme is that pretty much everyone in the SOS Brigade is a posthuman (Including Kyon, but in a more subtle, non-supernatural fashion).

I tend to have a more negative view of Adult Mikuru. Someone on this forum once speculated that she is the time traveler's group, or at least the leader, since we certainly haven't seen anyone else. We simply don't have enough information to really judge so it's more about gut feelings about what kind of person Adult Mikuru is. Kyon doesn't get good vibes...

I don't think Adult Mikuru gives Kyon BAD vibes, though. Everything she's done she's done for Mikuru's own good to become the person Adult Mikuru is today. Or will be. Whatever. And I'm sure that ultimately, this will comply with Young Mikuru's priorities.

Hmm, so in that scenario: Kyon x Haruhi, Mikuru x Koizumi, Nagato x Computer Society President, Tsuruya x Kunikida, Kimidori x Taniguchi, Imouto-chan x uh...student council president?

Kyon X Haruhi, Tsuruya X Taniguchi, Kimidori X Computer Society President, Koizumi X Kyoko, Mikuru X Furukawa, Imouto-Chan X Turtle Kid, Nagato X Computer Society Member #1, Suyoh X Computer Society Member #2, and Sasaki X As-Of-Yet-Unrevealed Kyon Counterpart.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Kyon X Haruhi, Tsuruya X Taniguchi, Kimidori X Computer Society President, Koizumi X Kyoko, Mikuru X Furukawa, Imouto-Chan X Turtle Kid, Nagato X Computer Society Member #1, Suyoh X Computer Society Member #2, and Sasaki X As-Of-Yet-Unrevealed Kyon Counterpart.

I'd go more with TsuruyaxKoizumi... but that's just me.

[AuraTwilight]

Eh. I can see where you're coming from, but Kyoko and Koizumi have SO MUCH in common if it weren't for their faction rivalry, and Tsuruya and Taniguchi are the most powerfully emotive side characters, so they'd make a great couple. Imagine the sort of parallels you can have with Tsuruya being the dominant one in the pairing. It's like Haruhi X Kyon, except Kyon would be an optimistic lecher and Haruhi would be...well, sane and considerate for human rights.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Eh. I can see where you're coming from, but Kyoko and Koizumi have SO MUCH in common if it weren't for their faction rivalry, and Tsuruya and Taniguchi are the most powerfully emotive side characters, so they'd make a great couple. Imagine the sort of parallels you can have with Tsuruya being the dominant one in the pairing. It's like Haruhi X Kyon, except Kyon would be an optimistic lecher and Haruhi would be...well, sane and considerate for human rights.

An excellent rebuttal. I shall respond with this doujin:



Also, Kyoko is probably evil and Taniguchi is the sort of character to never get laid ever.

[fiendmaw]

Ohhh!Having affairs with the big boss eh Koizumi?
But still Koizumi blushing=win!
And Nagato with some random guy is totally unbearable.Only Kyon fits her in any possible way.Damn that Kyon,the SOS trio digs him.....
[/end fanboyism].
Nothing to add on-topic.

[Rectifier]

Koizumi blushing is completely out of character.

[onizuka-gto]

Koizumi blushing is completely out of character.

after reading about a genderbending female kyon making jokes about getting pregnant with male yuki as an April Fool jokes, seeing a koizumi break character with blushing is hardly shocking.

[Rectifier]

This isn't Seitenkan we're talkin here!

Off-topic references ftl.

[AuraTwilight]

Pssh. Koizumi doesn't blush, you lose.

Also, Kyoko is probably evil and Taniguchi is the sort of character to never get laid ever.

1) DUH. That's why Kyoko is Koizumi's perfect match.
2) Yea, but Tsuruya is such a tease. He'd never get laid even WITH a girlfriend.

And Nagato with some random guy is totally unbearable.Only Kyon fits her in any possible way.Damn that Kyon,the SOS trio digs him.....

Ahem, Quartet.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Koizumi blushing is completely out of character.

Which is why that doujin is so awesome. Tsuruya seems the kind of person to bring out unexpected sides of people anyway.

Ohhh!Having affairs with the big boss eh Koizumi?
But still Koizumi blushing=win!

Exactly. Koizumi is the best character in Haruhi.

Pssh. Koizumi doesn't blush, you lose.

See above.

1) DUH. That's why Kyoko is Koizumi's perfect match.
2) Yea, but Tsuruya is such a tease. He'd never get laid even WITH a girlfriend.

1) Koizumi may be a Magnificent Itsuki, but he isn't evil.
2) That's true... but Taniguchi works better as a Sunohara-esque character, in my opinion.

[cicero225]

Damn it, Kaisos! That doujin is dangerously close to making me a Tsuruya x Koizumi shipper...I can't let that happen, though. Who would Mikuru pair with?
It does make strange sense though, since they are both part of the organization...We don't really know what Koizumi or Tsuruya are thinking, so they might very well be ogling each other, for all we know. Then again, Tsuruya might very well have her eye on *insert someone suitably ridiculous/distasteful*, for all we know. I only said Kunikida because people seem to be pairing their genderbent versions for some mysterious reason....
You have to admit that comic makes Tsuruya x Koizumi seem much cuter than Tsuruya x Taniguchi or Koizumi x Kyoko. You've got to counter somehow, AuraTwilight!

*ahem*

I don't think Adult Mikuru gives Kyon BAD vibes, though. Everything she's done she's done for Mikuru's own good to become the person Adult Mikuru is today. Or will be. Whatever. And I'm sure that ultimately, this will comply with Young Mikuru's priorities.

I'm sure she thinks it's for Young Mikuru's own good. I just think Young Mikuru might disagree. I happen to like this scenario because it has the whole disagreeing with your future self aspect to it.