Asakura Ryouko

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shichinanatsu
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Asakura Ryouko

Post by shichinanatsu »

alright.. i've been having some thoughts about her that i don't quite know how to deal with, and i'm not really sure if anyone here's considered this so..

stretching things a bit, yuki can be said to have killed ryouko in v1, then revived and still killed her in v4.. with the sole exception of yuki (after the events of v4) all envoys of the jouhou tougou shinentai have the ability to know the future through 'synchronization'.. therefore, if ryouko had no pressing reason to use this ability in the first place, she should have known when yuki will take her life, or more precisely, how she will end up being 'out-of-control' as yuki's back-up. the same goes for yuki, she should have known that ryouko would eventually go berserk, and hence she would have to deal with her..

if that were the case, what would ryouko's 'end' amount to? suicide, or allowing predestination to happen? same with yuki, would it be murder, or the same latter as with ryouko's?

need your thoughts guys..
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AuraTwilight
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by AuraTwilight »

This is of course assuming that they can predict the actions of other Interfaces, but let's not get into that. I'm of the belief that Ryoko only gave up her physical body. Her consciousness probably exists as a data entity.
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Kaisos Erranon
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by Kaisos Erranon »

The simplest explanation is that the author hadn't though of synchronization yet, but I don't think that's the answer you're looking for.

My theory is that Asakura gave up that power because of its implications on her free will, much like Yuki did.
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fiendmaw
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by fiendmaw »

Well,if you're talking about synchronization before she attempted to kill Kyon in volume 1,then that's because she didn't thought Yuki would interfere,or she didn't really care,wanting to do it with or without the consequences,that maybe explained why she was happy when she was erased,I got a 'Heh,so that's how it is' impression from her.
And about v4 she wasn't really Ryouko,as she wasn't even a data entity then,so no synchronization possible,she was a girl with the element of surprise,and a knife :)
Not sure how this will help,but I hope my post will help it develop further.
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Kaisos Erranon
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by Kaisos Erranon »

fiendmaw wrote:Well,if you're talking about synchronization before she attempted to kill Kyon in volume 1,then that's because she didn't thought Yuki would interfere,or she didn't really care,wanting to do it with or without the consequences,that maybe explained why she was happy when she was erased,I got a 'Heh,so that's how it is' impression from her.
And about v4 she wasn't really Ryouko,as she wasn't even a data entity then,so no synchronization possible,she was a girl with the element of surprise,and a knife :)
No, she was still a data entity, or had similar powers. Yuki recreated her in order to stop Kyon for fixing the universe. I can't see Yuki relying on a mere 16-year-old girl like that. She'd probably give her some superhuman powers.
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by shichinanatsu »

alright.. this is why i began thinking about it in the first place.

it all began with a set of assumptions, as you guys probably expected.. first, the jouhou tougou shinentai - though divided in opinions with regard to haruhi - are still of the thought that from-the-sidelines observation that allows for a ONLY A DASH of proactive-ness is for the best. at that they are quite in agreement with the <Agency>. i left out the time travelers because - though unstated - they wish to steer the events of the 'present'/their 'past' in haruhi-verse to allow for the existence of the 'future' aka their 'present'.

second.. theoretically, so long as the LHIs of the IDSE continue living on Earth/haruhi-verse, they can gain access to their counterparts in different time planes, past and future; with yuki being the sole exception after her actively sealing herself from pre-v4 herself. in which case, you could say that kimidori emiri is probably the only LHI who has seen everything with regards to yuki - her banishing ryouko, creating a rogue reality, submitting to kyon's better judgment, and subsequently continuing her role as main observer to haruhi in spite of her reduced knowledge.

third.. no matter how long an LHI exists in the guise of a human being, she (for generalizing in haruhi-verse) will still retain thought processes similar in nature to her creators, the IDSE. with that in mind, i confess to reading into ryouko's psyche, in much the same way koizumi does with haruhi.

remember her little spiel before setting out to make a kyon-kabob.. better to regret action than inaction, taking matters into one's own hands, all this would likely point to her getting bored of the status quo.. which is where things get a little hazy; can a supposedly timeless consciousness as one found in an LHI even understand boredom and ennui? in theory, a consciousness that was born into eternity should not even know of boredom; in ryouko's case boredom and ennui will only be a problem if we're talking about a mortal consciousness that became immortal. its like, a mortal conscious is made to exist finitely, having it adjust to infinity is well nigh impossible because it goes against one's nature.

argh.. words fail me.. guess its just not my day, putting weird thoughts into writing.. at least i found some rather related instances similar to what i'm trying to say.. for a formal example, Albert Camus' The Myth of Sisyphus is probably nearest to it.. as for an anime example, i guess you could try the Hizashi-Hiashi whatnot courtesy of Neji from Naruto.. i'll try doing this again some other time..
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by OctoBot »

They do feel boredom.

Remember when Haruhi kept resetting the weekend?, Kyon noticed Nagato's boredom, although Yuki's always been hinted to be "special".

As for synchronization, you can't assume all of them have it, Nagato's supposed to be of the more powerful LHI's, so a mere back-up might not have that ability, which by human standards is very amazing. (I wonder what the IDSE thinks about it)

Also, Nagato is wise, this isn't the first time she allows something to happen which she already knows to have a certain result, whatever it is.


Ummm.. I might be blabering, I finished the series quite some time ago and I didn't discuss it enough to have all the main concepts rooted in my thought.
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by AuraTwilight »

It seems heavily implied that all Interfaces are synchronized, given that it's supposed to be an ability the IDSE have themselves.
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by Dan »

Yuki only knew the future because she synced with herself that was from the future. Asakura didn't ever meet herself from the future, so she couldn't have known the future.
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by Kaisos Erranon »

Dan wrote:Yuki only knew the future because she synced with herself that was from the future. Asakura didn't ever meet herself from the future, so she couldn't have known the future.
Er, no. In Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, Yuki synchronizes across time planes in order to find out who Kyon and Mikuru are.

And I still stand by my point that Ryoko never synchronized because the author hadn't thought of it yet.
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by Dan »

My bad, it's been so long since I've read it. Well, Asakura didn't really have a reason to do so, and maybe Yuki would be notified if she did since she's was a subordinate.
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by Ambi Valent »

*Asakura-thread has revived*

I wonder... nobody mentioned the possibility that Asakura knew what she was doing.

Looking closer: In Melancholy IV Haruhi was depressed, and Itsuki went to work... which almost certainly meant he was fighting Shinjin in Closed Space. Kyon, however, so far had just heard the other SOS-dan members' stories, but didn't have any proof. In short, Haruhi was about to cause a major crisis, and nobody could stop it. Then Asakura did her villain scene, gradually increasing pressure on Kyon: first the talk, then the first attack, then the room changes so Kyon can't escape, then Asakura slowly gets closer, leaving him time to realize the situation... the really dangerous attack is only started when Yuki arrives and can avert it. All that and the following fight turn Kyon into an instant believer (adult Asahina met him soon afterwards, but a realistic Kyon would have insisted she's just Mikuru's sister). Finally, Asakura's disappearance gets Haruhi's attention, which eases the crisis, giving Kyon the opportunity to learn about all the other members, so he can find a way to save the world in Melancholy VI.
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by shichinanatsu »

that's a conspiracy theory Ambi Valent..

remember in Mysterique Sign when yuki conjured an event involving the SOS Dan and a distant relative of the IDSE? kyon realized that maybe the 'incident' wasn't from out of the blue after all; yuki may have been the hand from behind the curtain, for whatever reason he still isn't quite sure though.

it seems you're trying to put v1's events into that context, that yuki and ryouko would go so far as to play-murdering kyon and perpetrating ryouko's demise, just for the sake of making a believer out of him. the main school of thought in the IDSE is observation, plain and simple. any result-oriented alterations to the status quo is not what yuki's bosses would think of doing, that suits ryouko et al more. i think that demonstration of power is a mere coincidence, as all 3 have had kyon witness proof of their existences after revealing their identities: yuki and ryouko battling it out, asahina-san's (Big) debut, koizumi and Closed Space.

lastly, i don't find it practical that the IDSE would purposely engineer the flow of events to lead to SHnY VI. remember, yuki told kyon that the IDSE was very disappointed with losing their potential for evolution. they had sufficient reason for avoiding active involvement with haruhi; she is what humans would call force majeure, and perhaps what they would consider chaos incarnate. simply put, she is far too unpredictable, and given her abilities that is enough reason for them not to play russian roulette.
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by Fushichou »

You are a whore.

Edit: Since when was the word filter removed? I was expected epic lulz from "You are a asakura ryoko."
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Re: Asakura Ryouko

Post by Assassin »

Fushichou wrote:You are a whore.

Edit: Since when was the word filter removed? I was expected epic lulz from "You are a asakura ryoko."
Now that you realize it, you might want to edit your post further before some other form of epic lulz appears. :D
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