Sasaki: Troubled?

General discussion related to the Suzumiya Haruhi novel series

Moderators: thelastguardian, Fringe Security Bureau, Senior Editors, Senior Translators, Alt. Language Translator/Editor, Executive Council, Project Translators, Project Editors

User avatar
AuraTwilight
Astral Realm

Re: Sasaki: Troubled?

Post by AuraTwilight »

That's not a plot. It's a premise.
So? Where there's premise, there's plot by definition, however minimal.
I'm pretty sure Sasaki existed beforehand. There's too much foreshadowing of her (Kyon's first "weird girl"). Although that does not preclude Haruhi subconsciously "remapping" her into a rival once she hears about her.
In fairness to the theory, Haruhi's powers can retroactively alter the universe, since she's basically replacing it wholesale. Of course, when we go into that thinking, we fall into the "Haruhi Did It" catch.
And I'm curious how the best evidence for a Kuyoh cause of Yuki's illness—the fact that the meeting with the Anti-dan, and thus Kuyoh's interaction with Kimidori, occurs in the same timeline—is evidence that Haruhi, who didn't even know about the meeting, has given up her powers and that is what is weakening Yuki. After all, we've already seen Yuki display the same symptoms due to an attack by the Canopy Domain back in SMS. Why would there be a different cause now?
Agreed. Plus we know for a fact that Haruhi would never, ever, EVER hurt one of her friends. The only reason why Yuki isn't in perfect health is because Haruhi acknowledges that illnesses have to happen, but we can be sure that Yuki won't die from it.
User avatar
quigonkenny
Temporal Time Variant Entity
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:03 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: YES._

Re: Sasaki: Troubled?

Post by quigonkenny »

AuraTwilight wrote:The only reason why Yuki isn't in perfect health is because Haruhi acknowledges that illnesses have to happen, but we can be sure that Yuki won't die from it.
I wouldn't be so sure. Having alternate timelines gives the author the opportunity to do things he would never (and practically speaking, could never) do in the story's "real life". Like killing off major (presumably unkillable) characters, taking away the powers from a nigh-omnipotent character, invalidating the future origin and current existence of a time traveler and paradoxizing the last year-plus, etc., etc... With the way the story is going, and all the potential resolution of foreshadowing granted by the Anti-dan and the alternate timeline, I'm starting to see why some (not me) are expecting Volume 10 to be the last.

Only reason I don't see this as the last is that, should the immortal Yuki get killed, the omnipotent Haruhi get depowered, and the walking paradox Mikuru get "resolved" (bye-bye...), there's a fairly obvious comparable character development for the hidden-behind-the-mask but always trustworthy Itsuki, and that's a fairly irrevocable revelation that cannot be spoiled in a "what-if"-ish betaverse "ending", but has to wait for the true last story.

Which only leaves the question as to what antithetical character development they're going to lay on betaverse Itsuki if it isn't finally dropping that smile and turning on Kyon like we all know he's been dying to do since day one...
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Astral Realm

Re: Sasaki: Troubled?

Post by AuraTwilight »

I wouldn't be so sure. Having alternate timelines gives the author the opportunity to do things he would never (and practically speaking, could never) do in the story's "real life". Like killing off major (presumably unkillable) characters, taking away the powers from a nigh-omnipotent character, invalidating the future origin and current existence of a time traveler and paradoxizing the last year-plus, etc., etc... With the way the story is going, and all the potential resolution of foreshadowing granted by the Anti-dan and the alternate timeline, I'm starting to see why some (not me) are expecting Volume 10 to be the last.
Well obviously when that happens, all bets are off. I'm just saying that, in the meantime, Haruhi probably won't let Yuki die under any circumstances on some subconscious level. That's a characterization that she's possessed atleast as early as Remote Island Syndrome.
User avatar
quigonkenny
Temporal Time Variant Entity
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:03 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: YES._

Re: Sasaki: Troubled?

Post by quigonkenny »

AuraTwilight wrote:
I wouldn't be so sure. Having alternate timelines gives the author the opportunity to do things he would never (and practically speaking, could never) do in the story's "real life". Like killing off major (presumably unkillable) characters, taking away the powers from a nigh-omnipotent character, invalidating the future origin and current existence of a time traveler and paradoxizing the last year-plus, etc., etc... With the way the story is going, and all the potential resolution of foreshadowing granted by the Anti-dan and the alternate timeline, I'm starting to see why some (not me) are expecting Volume 10 to be the last.
Well obviously when that happens, all bets are off. I'm just saying that, in the meantime, Haruhi probably won't let Yuki die under any circumstances on some subconscious level. That's a characterization that she's possessed atleast as early as Remote Island Syndrome.
Has Haruhi's power ever shown the ability to keep something from happening? Her powers are subconscious, of course, but their results have always been fairly overt and proactive ("summoning" members of the special groups, making the trees bloom out of season, creating the Closed Spaces, etc., even "creating" or summoning Sasaki, if such is the case).
User avatar
IrishHaremOtaku
Astral Realm

Re: Sasaki: Troubled?

Post by IrishHaremOtaku »

Ambi Valent wrote:The more I think about it, the more I think the "bright closed spaces" are actually Haruhi's, and Sasaki never had any power at all. Even worse, Sasaki probably didn't even exist in Kyon's world before Haruhi created/transported her there.

The world is (relatively) new to Sasaki, so she continues to be fascinated by it, and can't stop asking questions about it - and doing that she got Kyon to appreciate the real world, too. Haruhi, on the other hand, sees the world just as normal and boring, or at least did so before forming the SOS-dan. I think that's the reason Sasaki and Haruhi seem like opposites, but when looking closer, Haruhi had been moving towards normal for quite some time.

Koizumi even said so in "Dissociation", and pointed out Haruhi's "closed spaces" had changed. So such a change could have happened before already, when Haruhi was looking for another world... the first attempts probably collapsed, the ones after that were stable but boring (like the one Kyoko showed Kyon), and after that, they could contain life. We're used to the thought Haruhi creates them only when she's in a bad mood, but that may just because those moods make her wish for another world, rather than living in the present one.

I think what confused the renegades is this change over time, and so they looked for another creator, and only found Sasaki, who seemed to be the character opposite of Haruhi but had no powers. I think Haruhi still wields all the power, unless she chooses to give them up... and I think that's what happens in "Dissociation" when Kyon meets Sasaki and the renegades - Haruhi tries to be more like Sasaki because she thinks that's what attracts Kyon. And that's what's weakening Yuki, not some attack by Kuyoh - Kuyoh exists in both timelines, but the meeting only happens in one.
This is interesting, particularly the last bit regarding Haruhi's changes to her closed space and the behaviour of her avatars.
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Astral Realm

Re: Sasaki: Troubled?

Post by AuraTwilight »

quigonkenny wrote: Has Haruhi's power ever shown the ability to keep something from happening? Her powers are subconscious, of course, but their results have always been fairly overt and proactive ("summoning" members of the special groups, making the trees bloom out of season, creating the Closed Spaces, etc., even "creating" or summoning Sasaki, if such is the case).
Haruhi's power has never really been shown to do anything, but there's implication that, again in Remote Island Syndrome, her powers protected Kyon and Haruhi in their fall. If Kyon feels safe in her presence, I think it's safe to say Haruhi is actively protecting them all on some level. After all, as Kyon himself said, she would never let anything bad happen to her friends if she could help it, and he would know best.
User avatar
Kaisos Erranon
Astral Realm

Re: Sasaki: Troubled?

Post by Kaisos Erranon »

Apparently that was post 9999 in this forum.

This is post 10000.

Fascinating, ain't it?
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Astral Realm

Re: Sasaki: Troubled?

Post by AuraTwilight »

Kaisos Erranon wrote:Apparently that was post 9999 in this forum.

This is post 10000.

Fascinating, ain't it?
DAMMIT.

Ah well. 9999 is a pretty cool number.
User avatar
IrishHaremOtaku
Astral Realm

Re: Sasaki: Troubled?

Post by IrishHaremOtaku »

AuraTwilight wrote:
Kaisos Erranon wrote:Apparently that was post 9999 in this forum.

This is post 10000.

Fascinating, ain't it?
DAMMIT.

Ah well. 9999 is a pretty cool number.
Can we get back on the point?

Sasaki's supposed role as "the first Haruhi" is suspect.
User avatar
shichinanatsu
Fish Miner
Posts: 871
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:52 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: waltzing on the event horizon..
Contact:

Re: Sasaki: Troubled?

Post by shichinanatsu »

because we have VERY little on sasaki prior to her meeting haruhi. that is, her being with kyon on their 3rd year of middle school, and anything before then.

all we know is that kyon 'graduated' from his fantasies, just as he met haruhi, who was still very much into them.
MS 3rd-year Sasaki = HS 1st-year Kyon
MS 3rd-year Kyon = HS 1st-year Haruhi

and possibly,
middle school haruhi = middle school kyon
although, haruhi was perhaps the more active between them when it came to involvement with the extraordinary..
雨 (ame) trilogy 8)

[070428] アメサラサ (amesarasa)
[090925] 夏ノ雨 (natsu no ame)
[120831] イモウトノカタチ (imouto no katachi)
Post Reply

Return to “Suzumiya Haruhi”