Kyons name/nickname

[Archaic]

There's a few former Prime Minsters who might fit the bill, if we assume the name has to be close to "Kyon" somehow.

Kurodo Kiyotaka (黒田 清隆) - 2nd Prime Minister.
Keigo Kiyoura (清浦 奎吾) - 23rd Prime Minister.
Konoe Fumimaro (Kyūjitai: 近衞 文麿, Shinjitai: 近衛 文麿) - 34th, 38th and 39th Prime Minister, and part of the Fujiwara clan by birth. Don't know if Konoe would work as a male personal name though.

[Kaisos Erranon]

There's a few former Prime Minsters who might fit the bill, if we assume the name has to be close to "Kyon" somehow.

Kurodo Kiyotaka (黒田 清隆) - 2nd Prime Minister.
Keigo Kiyoura (清浦 奎吾) - 23rd Prime Minister.
Konoe Fumimaro (Kyūjitai: 近衞 文麿, Shinjitai: 近衛 文麿) - 34th, 38th and 39th Prime Minister, and part of the Fujiwara clan by birth. Don't know if Konoe would work as a male personal name though.

Wait, Konoe Fumimaro?

THAT sounds familiar....

(Shakugan no Shana...)

[Archaic]

You're thinking of Konoe Fumina, right?

[Kaisos Erranon]

You're thinking of Konoe Fumina, right?

Yes.

I wonder if that's just a coincidence or whether that's actually where they got the name from.

[quigonkenny]

You're thinking of Konoe Fumina, right?

Yes.

I wonder if that's just a coincidence or whether that's actually where they got the name from.

Don't know about the given name, but they are very similar. As for the family name, Konoe is one of the more recognizable families of the noble Fujiwara clan, which is known for producing "wives and consorts of Japanese Emperors" (and other important people), as mentioned above. This makes it a prime choice if you need to find a family name for an ojou-sama (rich girl) character (as Konoe Fumina from SnS certainly is). Konoe Konoka from Negima would be another good example.

[Quiet Lurker]

I thought I'd pull this out instead of starting a new thread.

Anyway, something dawned on me awhile back. Who calls him "Kyon" anyway? More important, who doesn't?

We know Haruhi, Mikuru, lil' sis, and Tsuruya do. Meanwhile, I don't think I've ever read about Koizumi calling him this. Yuki never does, according to Kyon himself. Maybe they're just too formal and don't like nicknames?

I think Kyon's situation is very similar to Osaka's in Azumanga Daioh, in which everyone, even teachers, calls her by her nickname.
Like Osaka, although he is annoyed by it, he lacks the motivation to dispute it.

As for Yuki and Itsuki, names are usually used when initiating a conversation or talking about a third person. Neither Yuki nor Itsuki really talks about Kyon, at least not in his presence. Both have his/her own ways of initiating conversations with Kyon that does not require calling him by name:
- Itsuki does so by invading Kyon's personal space. It unnerves Kyon, but it is definitely effective.
- Yuki just stares at Kyon until he initiates conversation with her. (The only time she initiates conversation is in Volume 7 prologue) She probably does this to everyone but Kyon is the only one to respond.

[quigonkenny]

I thought I'd pull this out instead of starting a new thread.

Anyway, something dawned on me awhile back. Who calls him "Kyon" anyway? More important, who doesn't?

We know Haruhi, Mikuru, lil' sis, and Tsuruya do. Meanwhile, I don't think I've ever read about Koizumi calling him this. Yuki never does, according to Kyon himself. Maybe they're just too formal and don't like nicknames?

I think Kyon's situation is very similar to Osaka's in Azumanga Daioh, in which everyone, even teachers, calls her by her nickname.
Like Osaka, although he is annoyed by it, he lacks the motivation to dispute it.

As for Yuki and Itsuki, names are usually used when initiating a conversation or talking about a third person. Neither Yuki nor Itsuki really talks about Kyon, at least not in his presence. Both have his/her own ways of initiating conversations with Kyon that does not require calling him by name:
- Itsuki does so by invading Kyon's personal space. It unnerves Kyon, but it is definitely effective.
- Yuki just stares at Kyon until he initiates conversation with her. (The only time she initiates conversation is in Volume 7 prologue) She probably does this to everyone but Kyon is the only one to respond.

Going further than that, I think it's safe to say the author intentionally leaves out situations where someone would mention Kyon's name, in order to keep it hidden. The Volume 9 conversation with Sasaki should be proof enough, as he obviously glosses over the revelation, but other things, especially the fact that Itsuki and Yuki both never call him Kyon, even in situations when it would be expected for them to call him something, make me think that they actually are (well, at least Itsuki is) and any appearance of his name has been excised from the story, either by Kyon himself during the telling (my bet) or by the author in the course of the "dictation". Either way, of course, it's the author doing it.

One reason that he would do this might be because Kyon's true name has some meaning, but if I'm not mistaken, the author himself has stated in a past interview that even he's not sure what Kyon's name is. Now, this was a while back, and the "hints" in Volume 9's conversation with Sasaki certainly imply that he now has a set name, but I think it's self-apparent that Kyon's name had no real meaning before the author came up with it.

Another reason to hide the name is simply stylistic. Anyone who says that Quentin Tarantino hid The Bride's name from the audience through a movie and a half just so he could reveal that Kwai Chang Caine actually has been calling her by her name since the beginning, is missing half the reason. It was a stylistic choice. Whether you take it as an homage to The Man With No Name or think it's just because Tarantino thought it was cool, it all breaks down to that.

But the reason I think Tanigawa does it is simply to conform to the oft-mentioned "Full Name=Powers, Nickname or Single Name=Normal" naming structure that has kept up with only a few hiccups here and there (most of which are easily explained) since the beginning.

Still I do think the idea of Itsuki calling him nothing just to F with him bears a look. Any idea that involves Itsuki engaging in the intentional irritation of Kyon is high comedy in my book.

[shichinanatsu]

ack, i hope this doesn't sound like i'm trying to revive this thread.. anyway..

i'm not sure which manga/anime i saw it from (i think it was XXXholic.. juz heard it from a friend..), but i remember a quote that goes something like this.. 'a name is not just a sign of acquaintance.. knowing a person's name gives you power over that person's destiny..

i myself am not really sure if this is pertinent, but here's what i think - kyon doesn't have a name (that we know of), so apparently hardly anyone in SHnYverse has any sort of power over him.. sure they might know his real name, but they opt not to use it, or a just ignorant.. in a way kyon is 'vaccinated' from the effects of all the forces operating around him; haruhi hasn't 'created' kyon like the other 3 weirdos/members, yuki excluded him from the temporal converter's AoE, and mikuru told him that he will be the one who decides which future (probably from alpha- and beta-verses) he is going to choose..

no, i'm not trying to hint at kyon's divinity (this isn't the right thread for that..) but a rather unpopular anime series, Eden's Bowy, made me think that kyon IS important, not because he might be possible god, but because he is the only one that actively resists haruhi, even going to great lengths (by virtue of his staying put in the SOS-Dan) to 'normalize' her..

now that i remember, eden's bowy featured something a god-hunter, a person born once every few years or so, that aside from his seemingly normalcy in every aspect, has the ability to kill angels, and even possibly God.. (in the series, and it's not the Judeo-Christian God..) imo it's inspired by nietzsche's belief that humanity's very nature has killed God through cognitive thinking, reason, and other whatnot i can't remember just yet, leading to his famous phrase 'God is dead"

[Kaisos Erranon]

ack, i hope this doesn't sound like i'm trying to revive this thread.. anyway..

i'm not sure which manga/anime i saw it from (i think it was XXXholic.. juz heard it from a friend..), but i remember a quote that goes something like this.. 'a name is not just a sign of acquaintance.. knowing a person's name gives you power over that person's destiny..

i myself am not really sure if this is pertinent, but here's what i think - kyon doesn't have a name (that we know of), so apparently hardly anyone in SHnYverse has any sort of power over him.. sure they might know his real name, but they opt not to use it, or a just ignorant.. in a way kyon is 'vaccinated' from the effects of all the forces operating around him; haruhi hasn't 'created' kyon like the other 3 weirdos/members, yuki excluded him from the temporal converter's AoE, and mikuru told him that he will be the one who decides which future (probably from alpha- and beta-verses) he is going to choose..

no, i'm not trying to hint at kyon's divinity (this isn't the right thread for that..) but a rather unpopular anime series, Eden's Bowy, made me think that kyon IS important, not because he might be possible god, but because he is the only one that actively resists haruhi, even going to great lengths (by virtue of his staying put in the SOS-Dan) to 'normalize' her..

now that i remember, eden's bowy featured something a god-hunter, a person born once every few years or so, that aside from his seemingly normalcy in every aspect, has the ability to kill angels, and even possibly God.. (in the series, and it's not the Judeo-Christian God..) imo it's inspired by nietzsche's belief that humanity's very nature has killed God through cognitive thinking, reason, and other whatnot i can't remember just yet, leading to his famous phrase 'God is dead"

Kyon is (effectively) a subversion of the whole Ordinary High School Student/Everyman thing... He's not special in the supernatural sense, and deliberately is given qualities that everyone can identify with... but he's the most powerful ordinary human in the series, as he can activate Haruhi any time he wants, as well as being the central target and/or focus of most people's attention, due to Haruhi's interest in him.

Effectively, he goes from being just another kid to being the most important character in the entire series.

[quigonkenny]

ack, i hope this doesn't sound like i'm trying to revive this thread.. anyway..

i'm not sure which manga/anime i saw it from (i think it was XXXholic.. juz heard it from a friend..), but i remember a quote that goes something like this.. 'a name is not just a sign of acquaintance.. knowing a person's name gives you power over that person's destiny..

i myself am not really sure if this is pertinent, but here's what i think - kyon doesn't have a name (that we know of), so apparently hardly anyone in SHnYverse has any sort of power over him.. sure they might know his real name, but they opt not to use it, or a just ignorant.. in a way kyon is 'vaccinated' from the effects of all the forces operating around him; haruhi hasn't 'created' kyon like the other 3 weirdos/members, yuki excluded him from the temporal converter's AoE, and mikuru told him that he will be the one who decides which future (probably from alpha- and beta-verses) he is going to choose..

no, i'm not trying to hint at kyon's divinity (this isn't the right thread for that..) but a rather unpopular anime series, Eden's Bowy, made me think that kyon IS important, not because he might be possible god, but because he is the only one that actively resists haruhi, even going to great lengths (by virtue of his staying put in the SOS-Dan) to 'normalize' her..

now that i remember, eden's bowy featured something a god-hunter, a person born once every few years or so, that aside from his seemingly normalcy in every aspect, has the ability to kill angels, and even possibly God.. (in the series, and it's not the Judeo-Christian God..) imo it's inspired by nietzsche's belief that humanity's very nature has killed God through cognitive thinking, reason, and other whatnot i can't remember just yet, leading to his famous phrase 'God is dead"

Kyon is (effectively) a subversion of the whole Ordinary High School Student/Everyman thing... He's not special in the supernatural sense, and deliberately is given qualities that everyone can identify with... but he's the most powerful ordinary human in the series, as he can activate Haruhi any time he wants, as well as being the central target and/or focus of most people's attention, due to Haruhi's interest in him.

Effectively, he goes from being just another kid to being the most important character in the entire series.

His "power" is the ability to drive the plot. To make things happen that otherwise might not. There's nothing inherently special, or even powerful, about him, as his "power" only comes from others' interest in him.

Why did Ryoko attempt to kill him? Haruhi's interest in him.
Why did Haruhi not remake the world at the end of Vol 1? Her interest in him.
Why did Yuki remake the world in Bol 4? Her interest in him.
Why did Yuki keep him aware of the original world? Her interest in him.
Why did Ryoko attempt to kill him again? Yuki's interest in him.
Why did Slider-tan (possibly) create (unknowingly?) a new alternate timeline? Her interest in him.
Why will it be Kyon's decision as to which future takes place? If, as you suggest, the choice will take place in Vol 10, probably Sasaki's interest in him.

[Kaisos Erranon]

His "power" is the ability to drive the plot. To make things happen that otherwise might not. There's nothing inherently special, or even powerful, about him, as his "power" only comes from others' interest in him.

Why did Ryoko attempt to kill him? Haruhi's interest in him.
Why did Haruhi not remake the world at the end of Vol 1? Her interest in him.
Why did Yuki remake the world in Bol 4? Her interest in him.
Why did Yuki keep him aware of the original world? Her interest in him.
Why did Ryoko attempt to kill him again? Yuki's interest in him.
Why did Slider-tan (possibly) create (unknowingly?) a new alternate timeline? Her interest in him.
Why will it be Kyon's decision as to which future takes place? If, as you suggest, the choice will take place in Vol 10, probably Sasaki's interest in him.

Poor Kyon....

[Rectifier]

His "power" is the ability to drive the plot. To make things happen that otherwise might not. There's nothing inherently special, or even powerful, about him, as his "power" only comes from others' interest in him.

Why did Ryoko attempt to kill him? Haruhi's interest in him.
Why did Haruhi not remake the world at the end of Vol 1? Her interest in him.
Why did Yuki remake the world in Bol 4? Her interest in him.
Why did Yuki keep him aware of the original world? Her interest in him.
Why did Ryoko attempt to kill him again? Yuki's interest in him.
Why did Slider-tan (possibly) create (unknowingly?) a new alternate timeline? Her interest in him.
Why will it be Kyon's decision as to which future takes place? If, as you suggest, the choice will take place in Vol 10, probably Sasaki's interest in him.

QFT

Also, thats an excellent version of long hair yuki, and I'm not even a yuki fan!

[Kaisos Erranon]

Also, thats an excellent version of long hair yuki, and I'm not even a yuki fan!

Thanks.

This image made me a Yuki fan.

[shichinanatsu]

His "power" is the ability to drive the plot. To make things happen that otherwise might not. There's nothing inherently special, or even powerful, about him, as his "power" only comes from others' interest in him.

Why did Ryoko attempt to kill him? Haruhi's interest in him.
Why did Haruhi not remake the world at the end of Vol 1? Her interest in him.
Why did Yuki remake the world in Bol 4? Her interest in him.
Why did Yuki keep him aware of the original world? Her interest in him.
Why did Ryoko attempt to kill him again? Yuki's interest in him.
Why did Slider-tan (possibly) create (unknowingly?) a new alternate timeline? Her interest in him.
Why will it be Kyon's decision as to which future takes place? If, as you suggest, the choice will take place in Vol 10, probably Sasaki's interest in him.

Poor Kyon....

yeah, kyon is - quite obviously - central to all plot devices. also, he isn't unaffected by all the changes that happened because of him. but there must be something that happened to him to make him so.. cynic and yet interested in the weirdness all around him.. besides, there is precious little info on how kyon was 3-4 years back as compared to haruhi, all we know of middle-school kyon comes from a short flashback featuring him and sasaki. so i hope not only koizumi's, but kyon's background and development find it's way into v10.

another thing, Sasaki's interest in kyon isn't the only evident factor in v9, i believe haruhi (as usual) also plays a role in this.. haruhi, though starting to become a 'normal' high school girl (albeit unconscious, 'coz it's something she'd probably deny), is also starting to accept the fact that kyon still has a life 'outside' the SOS-Dan, that she should give him some leeway every once in awhile. this didn't start in v9, more like in v7 sans prologue. Though it might seem coincidental that kyon happened to be in 'future' business while haruhi was scheming a valentines' day surprise for him, her reluctant acceptance of his alibi (shamisen's sickness) still somehow points to that realization.

however, how kyon could be so different from her while being interested in the out-of-this-world is starting to derail that realization.. yeah, haruhi acted with seeming jealousy upon seeing kyon with sasaki twice, but since haruhi's starting to mellow out, she started creating closed spaces - much to koizumi's dismay - but without the intent of remaking the world. it might be a bit roundabout saying this, but i still think haruhi's responsible for the dimensional split; she might have created slider-tan to make it happen, but i believe the split's got something to do with her willingness to let him choose to be with.. this might be wrong though, 'coz even the IDSE and MCQE don't seem to be aware of it..


off topic, nagai kami yuki's nice, but somehow it reminds me of how yuusuke looked like in yu yu hakusho when his demon blood woke up. i don't know, it just looks.. surreal to me.

[quigonkenny]

Also, thats an excellent version of long hair yuki, and I'm not even a yuki fan!

Everyone's a Yuki fan. Those who don't think they are simply don't realize it yet... ^_^

another thing, Sasaki's interest in kyon isn't the only evident factor in v9, i believe haruhi (as usual) also plays a role in this.. haruhi, though starting to become a 'normal' high school girl (albeit unconscious, 'coz it's something she'd probably deny), is also starting to accept the fact that kyon still has a life 'outside' the SOS-Dan, that she should give him some leeway every once in awhile. this didn't start in v9, more like in v7 sans prologue. Though it might seem coincidental that kyon happened to be in 'future' business while haruhi was scheming a valentines' day surprise for him, her reluctant acceptance of his alibi (shamisen's sickness) still somehow points to that realization.

I'm still holding onto the idea that Sasaki (or at least her newfound specialness) is an unconscious creation of Haruhi so she can have a rival.

it might be a bit roundabout saying this, but i still think haruhi's responsible for the dimensional split; she might have created slider-tan to make it happen, but i believe the split's got something to do with her willingness to let him choose to be with.. this might be wrong though, 'coz even the IDSE and MCQE don't seem to be aware of it..

Aw, come on, that wouldn't be any fun. I say it's high time we have a mysterious entity who isn't related to Haruhi... Well, at least not to our Haruhi...