Propose Standardization of Spell Names & Social Titles

General discussion related to this novel series

Moderators: Fringe Security Bureau, Senior Editors, Senior Translators, Alt. Language Translator/Editor, Executive Council, Project Translators, Project Editors

User avatar
onizuka-gto
Editor-in-Chief
Posts: 4840
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:02 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Suzumiya Haruhi
Mahouka koukou no Rettousei
No Game No Life
Mushoku Tensei
Mother of Learning
Location: N.E.E.T Federation
Contact:

Propose Standardization of Spell Names & Social Titles

Post by onizuka-gto »

Had a chance to proofread some of the titles, but I only managed to so chapter 3 & 4, but that was enough for me to think that we need a guideline on some regular translations for spells, and title.

Unless specified, my suggestion the subfix of the japanese honourific should be:

"San" = Mister/Madam

"Kun" = either a nickname, or simply the name
(unless you got something better)

"Sama" = Master/Mistress

"Dono" = Lord/Lady


however we all know that in English it is far more complicated.

as character could be addressed as a Lord or a Master yet we know they are socially higher.

In that case, i suggest apply,

Esquire = which is higher then "Master" but lower then "Lord"

Earl/Duke = For one is higher then "Lord"


As for spells:

Silence spell = Spell of Tranquility

Reinforcement spell = Spell of Reinforcement (not much need for this)

unlock spell = Spell of Unbinding

I will be adding this to the wiki, soon. but feel free to add or discuss what i have here.
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."

@Onizukademongto
User avatar
Cala-kun
Senior Project Translator
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:41 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Zero no Tsukaima
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Cala-kun »

I'm personally against the translation of honorific suffixes. I don't like the sound of Siesta calling Saito "mister" all the time. I will accept "ojousama" as "mistress", however.

Spell translations... remix them if you wish, but they are mostly transliterated from the original text.
<@Onizuka-GTO> Cala-ko and Cala-kun sitting in the tree!
<@Onizuka-GTO> T-R-A-N-S-L-A-T-I-N-G!

A little in-joke (of sorts) that was born in irc...
User avatar
HolyCow
I.D.S.E Humanoid Interface [LSB]
Posts: 2538
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: Hinamizawa

Post by HolyCow »

Same here. I prefer the honorifics be kept as they are. No point romanizing them.

If you really want to, I suggest putting up a link somewhere explaining the honorifics or something....
Image
/me claws out throat and dies
User avatar
onizuka-gto
Editor-in-Chief
Posts: 4840
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:02 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Suzumiya Haruhi
Mahouka koukou no Rettousei
No Game No Life
Mushoku Tensei
Mother of Learning
Location: N.E.E.T Federation
Contact:

Post by onizuka-gto »

HolyCow wrote:Same here. I prefer the honorifics be kept as they are. No point romanizing them.

If you really want to, I suggest putting up a link somewhere explaining the honorifics or something....
thing is, i won't mind keeping honourifics, except its so damn inconsistence, from chapter 3 to four, they are majority honourific free, except for a few incidents.

if you want to keep those honourific, someone has to go though the script and add them in again, requiring a translator to go though the script and provide the correct ones, for ALL the names.

since i think that would take more time, i went the easy way, and removed the few instances of it.

its either one or the other, i don't really mind which one, but this current idea of leaving it half/half isn't something i can stand.

So at this moment, chapter 3 - 6 has no honourific, except when Saito ask for "Ojousama"
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."

@Onizukademongto
the_naming_game
Temporal Time Variant Entity
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 6:36 am
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!

Post by the_naming_game »

Adding in the honorifics shouldn't take too long, and should be even faster if someone has the raw text -- just search for all instances of "san / sama / chan / ojou / hime / dono / kun" Luckily, raw text is available (stage whisper) out there... somewhere.

I can start adding back in the honorifics if desired. I don't expect it to take longer than 30 seconds per honorific. And there can't be more than 10-20 honorifics per chapter? Easily comes out to less than an hour's work for all current chapters. And that's a high estimate.

as for spell names
From something akiha said either on the wiki, or irc, most Japanese don't understand English terms like "Fate/Stay Night" (Okay, I don't understand what that means either, but anyway...) -- it's mostly there to sound cool. Thus, if we want to translate the feeling, and not just the literal meaning, then perhaps we should translate the spell names into another language. Like Latin, or... maybe even Japanese! How ironic would that be?

Another possibility is the "unlimited blade works" route ... I really can't think up names up to that caliber for those spells though.

Here are some "Latin-ish" sounding names:
Tranquilium.
Adamantium.
Unlockium. (ok, needs work.)

As a bonus, these can be considered to be "Latingrish"!
Baka-Tsuki, suki! Yuki, suki!
User avatar
onizuka-gto
Editor-in-Chief
Posts: 4840
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:02 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Suzumiya Haruhi
Mahouka koukou no Rettousei
No Game No Life
Mushoku Tensei
Mother of Learning
Location: N.E.E.T Federation
Contact:

Post by onizuka-gto »

the_naming_game wrote:Adding in the honorifics shouldn't take too long, and should be even faster if someone has the raw text -- just search for all instances of "san / sama / chan / ojou / hime / dono / kun" Luckily, raw text is available (stage whisper) out there... somewhere.

I can start adding back in the honorifics if desired. I don't expect it to take longer than 30 seconds per honorific. And there can't be more than 10-20 honorifics per chapter? Easily comes out to less than an hour's work for all current chapters. And that's a high estimate.

as for spell names
From something akiha said either on the wiki, or irc, most Japanese don't understand English terms like "Fate/Stay Night" (Okay, I don't understand what that means either, but anyway...) -- it's mostly there to sound cool. Thus, if we want to translate the feeling, and not just the literal meaning, then perhaps we should translate the spell names into another language. Like Latin, or... maybe even Japanese! How ironic would that be?

Another possibility is the "unlimited blade works" route ... I really can't think up names up to that caliber for those spells though.

Here are some "Latin-ish" sounding names:
Tranquilium.
Adamantium.
Unlockium. (ok, needs work.)

As a bonus, these can be considered to be "Latingrish"!

If people like to keep the honourifics, then fine, but i was having fun digging up old social titles and applying them with glee
(Must be the British in me)

But if it's the will of the masses to go with honourifics....dammn this communism...
:roll:

As for the latish idea.

definitely for the win, those example are eccentric and exotic and therefore I approval of them.

Unlockium can be chanded to -> Unbindyon, Mitagatium, or even disenthrallium.

oh, lots of fun to have with this, might even pull me out of a gloom if i can't play with my social title dig.... :roll:
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."

@Onizukademongto
Claies
Project Translator
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:21 pm
Favourite Light Novel:

Post by Claies »

I'll depend on you guys for replacing every spell I put on my script, because I don't have that kind of creative streak. That or I just don't dare to make anything drastic on my own.
the_naming_game
Temporal Time Variant Entity
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 6:36 am
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!

Post by the_naming_game »

Currently a little exhausted from finishing reading Wristcut, but I'll get to the honorifics sometime soon.

Oni:
Do even the British know all of those titles and the levels between them and such? Needless to say, not very many Americans do... Not to say "as the Americans go, so goes the project" but a lot of the audience is not going to understand what those mean, and we'll have to have editor notes as well.

I have personally experienced trouble with being too free with term substitution, and having it conflict with a term used later. What if there is an actual Lord or Esquire in the story? How will we distinguish the "substituted" ones from the actual? The audience here is Japanese savvy as far as honorifics go, anyway. (Right, Oni-sama?) Now this will likely not happen with spells, but what if there's a spell called "Adamant Will" or something?

While I think the Latin idea is interesting, I'd like to at least keep the original Engrish-ish names in comment tags in case we have to change them back for some reason. That in particular can't be easily searched for in text.

Claies:
Yeah, don't worry about spell names. It's enough work expressing the meaning without trying to add ornaments here and there. How's it been going?
Baka-Tsuki, suki! Yuki, suki!
User avatar
onizuka-gto
Editor-in-Chief
Posts: 4840
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:02 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Suzumiya Haruhi
Mahouka koukou no Rettousei
No Game No Life
Mushoku Tensei
Mother of Learning
Location: N.E.E.T Federation
Contact:

Post by onizuka-gto »

the_naming_game wrote: Oni:
Do even the British know all of those titles and the levels between them and such? Needless to say, not very many Americans do... Not to say "as the Americans go, so goes the project" but a lot of the audience is not going to understand what those mean, and we'll have to have editor notes as well.

sadly they do not.

Which just goes to show the decline of intelligence in the general British population.

Only those who study history, have an interest in such things, or is part of the upper class close to the Government or Royalty will have a inking of the correct order of social titles.
But i suspect only the current adults will know them well, i can't say the younger generation of those social class know much of it either, as i've personally went to University with a minor noble, she was the distance cousin of the royal family and the 200-500th (can't remember) in line to the throne, her family used to own land, from her surname, shes actually a Marquess or Viscount, not a Duke, but not as low as a Baron. The fact she doesn't really know, yet her family is frequently on the TV with royalty related programs.

*angry grumble at the decline of society*

okay, while i suppose its going to take more work, i still insist on small english substitute, "Mistress" and "Master" and even "Majesty" and we leave the rest, unless it's specifically mentioned by in the story.

As for the spells, i agree. lets leave the original in hidden tags.

*rub hands in anticipation of making some great spell names*

Time to go over ENTIRE scripts! :D

yay for time wasting! :)
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."

@Onizukademongto
User avatar
onizuka-gto
Editor-in-Chief
Posts: 4840
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:02 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Suzumiya Haruhi
Mahouka koukou no Rettousei
No Game No Life
Mushoku Tensei
Mother of Learning
Location: N.E.E.T Federation
Contact:

Post by onizuka-gto »

Because I'm bored at work, and I'm a bit miffed that I won't be able to use social titles, and general decline of them in society, I made a CHART.

yup.

MSpaint, the reliable program on typical Workstations.

:)

Note, that Tabitha is a Noble, we do not know what type of Noble, but I suspect
Spoiler! :
an Upper Noble because she was given tasks that concerned the safety of her country.
Hence for the completion of the task, she gain a Knighthood, arbeit the lowest rank, which is still impressive at her age.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."

@Onizukademongto
User avatar
onizuka-gto
Editor-in-Chief
Posts: 4840
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:02 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Suzumiya Haruhi
Mahouka koukou no Rettousei
No Game No Life
Mushoku Tensei
Mother of Learning
Location: N.E.E.T Federation
Contact:

Post by onizuka-gto »

spells!



need names of spells.

we got unlocking, silence, floating spells so far.

i better find a latin online translator for those words...

but are we going with the "ium" parodying the periodic table (the "ten commandments" of the religion of science) or what?

I still not exactly clear on what you mean by making them sound "Engrish" :roll:
"Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death. Good luck."

@Onizukademongto
User avatar
Dan
Square Mage
Posts: 2361
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:53 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Post by Dan »

Is the name of the school Tristain or Tristein? I can't believe I didn't notice the switch between the two util now. :roll:
User avatar
Dan
Square Mage
Posts: 2361
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:53 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Post by Dan »

Double post!

Ok, since "Tristain" came up first, I've made that the one in the PDF I'm putting together. I'll let you argue among yourselves for which you want in the Wiki.
ArchmageXin
Project Translator
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:59 pm
Favourite Light Novel:

Re:

Post by ArchmageXin »

onizuka-gto wrote:Because I'm bored at work, and I'm a bit miffed that I won't be able to use social titles, and general decline of them in society, I made a CHART.

yup.

MSpaint, the reliable program on typical Workstations.

:)

Note, that Tabitha is a Noble, we do not know what type of Noble, but I suspect
Spoiler! :
an Upper Noble because she was given tasks that concerned the safety of her country.
Hence for the completion of the task, she gain a Knighthood, arbeit the lowest rank, which is still impressive at her age.
I thought she was just given suicide tasks to max the chance of an accident. I kinda imagine the king just say "Let me send the brat...if she dies, then I will send the real people" I doubt she could get upper nobility because it would be in the king's best interest to minimize any political gains on her part (in fear of revenge).

Also, I probably not bother with Chan/Kun etc on my translations, because these designations were lost when Jap --> Chinese, at least on the raws I been reading. Of course, someone can go after my translation with an eraser after.
User avatar
Ways
Kyonite - The Haruhi Pacifier
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:52 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: An Incarnated Nyaadious
Contact:

Re:

Post by Ways »

onizuka-gto wrote:Because I'm bored at work, and I'm a bit miffed that I won't be able to use social titles, and general decline of them in society, I made a CHART.

yup.

MSpaint, the reliable program on typical Workstations.

:)

Note, that Tabitha is a Noble, we do not know what type of Noble, but I suspect
Spoiler! :
an Upper Noble because she was given tasks that concerned the safety of her country.
Hence for the completion of the task, she gain a Knighthood, arbeit the lowest rank, which is still impressive at her age.

these dont match with the standard nobility tree at all.i guess thats the difference between manga and reallity too huh lolz.this is the british tree

Peasant
Vassal
Squire
Captain
Noble
Baron
Count
Viscount
Earl
Marquis
Duke
Grand Duke
Archduke
Elector
Viceroy
Regent
Seneschal
King
Emperor

btw,i am just stating there cause i am bored.thats all
Locked

Return to “Zero no Tsukaima”