Zero no Tsukaima Unified Guidelines

[onizuka-gto]

I decided to check out Kuroneko's ZnT fan subbed anime to get a better idea of what novel we're working on is like and... I must say that I was some what surprised and a little disappointed.

To put it simply, just by watching 3 episodes of the anime version of ZnT, I have concluded that it is basically:

Harry Potter x Shakugan no Shana x Pokemen + Love Hina = Zero no Tsukaima

I'm not sure what to say about the anime except that I've little praise for it. I pray that the novels are better (though I expect to be disappointed).


Based on Louise's mannerisms from the anime, I think we should leave the characters' speech as it is (if that's a reliable basis for conclusion). The so called "nobles" in the anime are portrayed to be obnoxious rascals so having them speak casually (or even rudely) should be appropriate.


Regarding Montmorency's... "Rune name", the two variations are synonymous. The only slight difference is that being called a fragrance is slightly more accurate than being called a perfume.
Here's why I think so:

* Fragrance (noun) 1 sweetness of smell. 2 a sweet smell or odour.
ETYMOLOGY: 15c: from Latin fragrare to give out a smell.

* Perfume (noun) 1 a sweet smell; a scent or fragrance. 2 a fragrant liquid prepared from the extracts of flowers, etc, for applying to the skin or clothes; scent.
ETYMOLOGY: 16c: from French parfum, from Latin per through + fumare to impregnate with smoke.

What I would do is to simply substitute the word with its definition to see which word would fit better.

For "fragrance":
* Montmorency the sweetness of smell
* Montmorency the sweet smell or odour

For "perfume":
* Montmorency the sweet smell; scent or fragrance
* Montmorency the fragrant liquid prepared from the extracts of flowers, etc, for applying to the skin or clothes; scent

Thus, I agree with Onizuka and would support the "rune name" of Montmorency the Fragrance as opposed to Montmorency the Perfume

thanks, mike, but do stay on the novel, because it get serious too.

Novel is loosely base upon a well known conflict that is especially close to our hearts Da~Mike, it draws its inspiration of one the conflict during the Hundred Year War between France and England.



So yes, there will a french D-Day, slaughter, Armies, Deaths (Saito NOOOO!!!)
and sucides (Let me join Saito!!!)



honestly, if i didnt read about WWII fighter dog fighting against Dragons, and 70,000 strong army getting kicked by a Japanese kid., i would never pick up this novel.

[Sushi-Y]

Fragrance sounds good, I'll change it to that.

[onizuka-gto]

Since we are on that issue, my discussion with kawool, has brough to light some of the other terms we will be encountering in chapter two.

one of them is:

Gandalfr

Now correct me if i'm wrong but in the K.neko fansub the term they used was:

Gundalf

I just wish to confirm which version, ( or other alternatives, i'am not yet aware of )

That we should use.

Personally, I prefer "Gandalfr" because the English spelling of it, is reminiscent of "ye olde English" or even older.

Which is appropriate considering it's mystical and magical meaning of the symbol.

[Da~Mike]

Nothing to thank me for Onizuka. I simply supported your choice.

Ah... the Hundred Years' War.
It's been years since I remember learning that...

Gandalfr or Gundalf?
Hmmm...

Like Onizuka, I prefer the use of Gandalfr as opposed to Gundalf, though my reason for this preference is different to Onizuka's.

I watched the ZnT anime up the episode where someone almost blurted out by accident that Saito was a "Gunda!...".
At that point, I was laughing as I thought I heard the word "Gundam".

"Saito's a Gundam! BEWARE!"

Of course, if we use "Gandalfr", I suppose Lord of The Rings fans would probably say something just as stupid.

(Edit note: I removed some or my text. This is the Unified Guidelines page, not a debate about the history of war... )

[Kawool]

Just suggestions....

カトレヤ ラ・ヴァリエール - Kattleya La Valliere should be de la Vallière

for tabitha i suggest blizzard instead of snow thing

about gundalf /gundarf i prefer gundalf ...

for montmorency i would chose perfume not frangrance both mean the same but also in french perfume is more for women and fragrance more for men

again i would keep the Louise the zero and not zero louise

[Da~Mike]

Although my French is rubbish, I do believe that "eau de cologne" is used to describe perfumes marketed towards men...

[Kawool]

you are horribly wrong there ... the eau de cologne is just a popular kind of perfume, but is both for men and (more) for women. On that i am positive as i am french.

[Da~Mike]

I knew my French was bullocks...
Thank you for your candid reply Kawool.
I shall make note of that fact.

Despite your reasoning, I still support the use of "fragrance" instead of "perfume", my grounds for argument being the aesthetic sound of “Montmorency the Fragrance” as her “rune name”.

[Andiyar]

Just chiming in here to put in a vote on the side of 'Gandalfr' as opposed to 'Gundolf' or 'Gundalf.'

Reasons? Gandalfr is actually a Norse word, it stems from a list of dwarf(ve)s in the Poetic Edda. The word, roughly translated, is broken down into two parts:

gand - wand/staff
álfr - elf

So roughly, the translation of 'gandalfr' is that of 'staff elf' or 'wand elf' - which, as the Tolkien fans amongst us (assuming there's more than just me!) will realise or remember as the word that good old J.R.R utilised as his foundation for the character of 'Gandalf' - which he interpreted as meaning 'sorcerer-elf', due to the use of staff or wand.

What does the gandalfr in ZnT have to do with an old dwarf name that basically means a wand-using elf? Well, apart from the fact that a multitude of the characters are based, at least in their names, on actual historical figures, there are a few thoughts that can be drawn from the name. Namely that interpreting the 'elf' as not so much a pointy-eared being, but rather as an outsider or a 'different' kind of person, and then sorcerer/wand being used as 'magical', we gain the meaning of a magical being that is somehow different from the normal.

Sounds much like a human summoned from another reality to me. And that's without going into the whole hands of God thing that happens later. So, for reasons of both interpretation and of consistency with Noboru Yamaguchi's naming conventions, I'd think that using 'Gandalfr' is more appropriate.

Oh, and hello everyone. I believe I'm the newest editor for the project - look forward to working with you all, whether via wiki, email or an IM flavour.


~A~

[the_naming_game]

I was discussing on IRC with some others about the "contract servant" term. While that's a direct katakana translation, I'm of the opinion that in this usage, it's Engrish. This is because in the phrase "contract (noun)", "contract" is almost always an adjective, not a verb. To make it clearly a verb, it would have to be "contract a (noun)" or something else similar.

Some common uses of "contract (noun)":

• "contract lawyer" "contract law" "contract agreement" "contract papers" "contract discussions" (all these mean "pertaining to contracts")
• "contract work" "contract security" "contract servant" (all these mean "done/bound under contract")

Some ideas that were discussed:

• "bind servant" -- like "summon servant", it's a clear "(verb) (noun)" phrase.
• Another discussed possibility was "spell of summoning" and "spell of contract" though I'm not as supportive of that.
• A final possibility I came up with just now is "Servant Contract", which is just a noun, but so is "Raging Fireball" or many other fanciful spell names.

Thoughts?

[Sushi-Y]

I was discussing on IRC with some others about the "contract servant" term. While that's a direct katakana translation, I'm of the opinion that in this usage, it's Engrish. This is because in the phrase "contract (noun)", "contract" is almost always an adjective, not a verb. To make it clearly a verb, it would have to be "contract a (noun)" or something else similar.

Some common uses of "contract (noun)":

• "contract lawyer" "contract law" "contract agreement" "contract papers" "contract discussions" (all these mean "pertaining to contracts")
• "contract work" "contract security" "contract servant" (all these mean "done/bound under contract")

Some ideas that were discussed:

• "bind servant" -- like "summon servant", it's a clear "(verb) (noun)" phrase.
• Another discussed possibility was "spell of summoning" and "spell of contract" though I'm not as supportive of that.
• A final possibility I came up with just now is "Servant Contract", which is just a noun, but so is "Raging Fireball" or many other fanciful spell names.

Thoughts?

I simply see the whole term "Contract Servant" as a noun, because that's what it is: a spell name. It may not be regular English usage, but it probably doesn't matter if it's only being used as a special term.

Besides, the word doesn't really pop up all that much throughout the novel anyway (a couple of times in vol.1 and 8, that's all), there's no need to worry about it too much.

[Vaelis]

虚無の曜日 has been translated as "Day of Nothing" but 虚無 is the magic "Void".

Wouldn't it be better to translate it as "Day of The Void"?

[onizuka-gto]

虚無の曜日 has been translated as "Day of Nothing" but 虚無 is the magic "Void".

Wouldn't it be better to translate it as "Day of The Void"?

nice pick up Vaelis, it does use the same kanji,

i suppose it depends on what way you want to take it.

but it does make sense to call a day after "void" since it is in a manner, have an religious meaning.

"Day of Void" would do, but also "Void day" works too! :p

hmm...i might start calling Sunday as void day now, because it certainly feels more empty then sunny.

[Trewth]

After reading through most of the stories while thinking about how they could be translated, I have come up with a list of things I would like to see standardized (partly because I'm horrible at transliteration).

1)

Spoiler! :

How does Sylphid address Tabitha? I am thinking about using "sis" unless the implied age difference is of significance to the chapter in question.

2)

Spoiler! :

What is the name of the girl who is Tabitha's first cousin and daughter of the usurper?

3) I asked this question in the extra chapter thread, but I'll include it here just in case: what is the transliteration of the sound that Sylphid makes? I'm currently using "gao" as a placeholder.

4)

Spoiler! :

What is the original name of Sylphid? You know, the one she uses when she assumed the form of a blue-haired girl to ask people from the Academy to rescue Tabitha?

5)

Spoiler! :

This is probably a good place to talk about a certain recurring song (see the beginning of Chapter 7 Epilogue), and the names that come up then; below is my suggestion:


The Lord's left hand Gandalfr, the fearless and resolute Shield of the Lord. Wielding the greatsword in his left hand and the long lance in his right, he stands guard over my unceasing journey.
The Lord's right hand Vindalfr, the kind and gentle Flute of the Lord. Commanding all the fantastic beast in the world, he transports me wherever I must go on my unceasing journey.
The Lord's mind Mjothvitnir, the Book, the crystallization of the wisdom of the Lord. Possessing all knowledge, he gives me advice for my unceasing journey.
There is one more, whose memory is lost to me.
Accompanied by the four servants, I arrived in this land...


I suggest either "greatsword" or the "broadsword" as the left-hand weapon of Gandalfr because "broadsword" contrasts nicely with "long lance" though "greatsword" is probably closer to the original meaning. I prefer "long lance" over "long spear" due to alliteration.
According the various Chinese translations I've seen, the word describing Vindalfr is consistently "Flute". However, flute wasn't quite the common instrument in the West as it was in the East, so alternative translations could be "Song", "Music", "Pipe", or "Lyre". I have to say I don't like the last one so much.
I suggest using Mjothvitnir as the transliteration of the familiar's name since both Gandalfr and Vindalfr are names of the dwarves from the Poetic Edda (as is Motsognir, Osman's familiar), so it stands to reason that the mind of the Lord is too. Beside, the meaning of the name Mjothvitnir ("mead-wolf") would connect it to the mead that grants gift in poetry (and wisdom). Note: the explanation of Gandalfr's name in the new volume is further evidence of the origin of the names from Poetic Edda.
One last thing, the versions I've seen all have some sort of repetition at the end of the first three verses. One of the versions, used above, describes the journey as ceaseless. The other version describes the journey as inspired (pilgrimage?). It would be nice if someone with access to the original would clarify.

.

That's all my questions for now.

Edit: More questions.
a) How do I transliterate the palace built right outside the capital of Gallia? Both the main one and the princess's palace. They give me headaches (I can't deal with a voiced "h" in middle of a name that's supposed to sound French.).

[Macko Darlack]

copied from a previouse post of mine (that I guess it was in the wrong topic), I paste it here now, it's about the legendary name of Saito and the runes.

Is it Gandalf or Gundolf?? I know Gandalf was a Dwarf King. "Gandalf" has the Old Norse words gandr (wand or magic) and alfr (elf), meaning wand-elf or magic-elf. As for "Gundolf", it has the ON words gundr (war) and olfr (wolf), meaning war-wolf or battle-wolf. And as the translation is Gandāruvu... does the runes appear written in the book?? if not, then there's a mistake from animators

Spoiler! :

maybe my other post should be deleted