Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

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Enigma
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by Enigma »

Ephyon wrote:However, before there was something I couldn't fix: "Deru bagaraasu" These are definitely not runes, and following the way Halkeginians chant, this should be the name of the spell shouted at the end, which have so far always been in English (She casts "Air Hammer" immediately after in that way). I just can't figure out what the heck it's supposed to be. She seems to use it in order to propel herself.
Went and did some searching out of curiosity. First off, it seems the translation is a little off. デル・ハガラース should make Deru Hagaraasu, well, at least that's what I found in Vaelis' text copy and through Google searching.

Now for actually helping, I'm thinking it's German, but I couldn't find the exact word, which is annoying the hell out of me. Of the little German I know, Der means the, specifically the masculine form (they also have a neutral and feminine version). Though the title ゼロの使い魔 公式アンソロジーコミック 風-ハガラース-魔法の章 leads me to believe it indeed has something to do with some sort of wind.

I'm not even decent in German or Japanese, so me being on the completely wrong language track wouldn't be too surprising.
Last edited by Enigma on Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by RonnieCorny »

in the guidelines, it's mentioned that 北花壇騎士 is the "knights of the north parterre" but in the furigana, the author seems to prefer シユヴアリエ.ド.ノールバルテル or "chevalier of the north parterre" (actually it's chevalier du north parterre)...

i'm kinda lazy to dig out the regular volumes, but this is from the side story (tabitha's adventures)... can anyone confirm which would be the more appropriate title...

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Ephyon
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by Ephyon »

Enigma wrote: Now for actually helping,
Actually, you just helped a lot more than you think.

I was wrong, I assumed there were two spells being cast there, when it was only Air Hammer. The first line was Air Hammer's incantation. "Hagaraasu" is without a doubt "Hagalaz", the rune for "Hail". "Deru" still bothers me though. It's not the only time it appears, Tabitha casts a spell called Ice Storm in one of the sidestories whose incantation is "ラグーズ・ウォータル・デル・ウィンデ" (Laguz Water Deru Winde) and then there's Wardes' "ユビキタス・デル・ウィンデ" (Ubiquitous Deru Winde).

Now, if I assume that it's ALL English, Deru would have to be "dell" as in "valley", thus making Air Hammer's incantation "Dell Hagalaz [Valley Precipitation]" and Wardes' "Ubiquitous Dell Wind" remains as it is. The fact that it's "ウィンデ" instead of "ウィンド" does make me wonder if it's not meant to be German after all, but since there's a precedent for English words being injected into incantations, yet none for German, I'm inclined to go with the all-English version...

I'll leave if alone for a bit to see if anybody has a second opinion or at least even gives a shit, If not I'll just go ahead and change it myself later on.
RonnieCorny wrote:in the guidelines, it's mentioned that 北花壇騎士 is the "knights of the north parterre" but in the furigana, the author seems to prefer シユヴアリエ.ド.ノールバルテル or "chevalier of the north parterre" (actually it's chevalier du north parterre)...
You can't say "chevalier" without furigana, which is why the kanji reads "knight", same for "North Paterre" being "North Flowerbed". I'd definitely go for Chevalier, the furigana wouldn't mention it if it weren't how it's supposed to be read, and the word itself already implies "knight".
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by Vaelis »

RonnieCorny wrote:in the guidelines, it's mentioned that 北花壇騎士 is the "knights of the north parterre" but in the furigana, the author seems to prefer シユヴアリエ.ド.ノールバルテル or "chevalier of the north parterre" (actually it's chevalier du north parterre)...
Chevalier du nord parterre
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by Wolfpup »

Ephyon wrote: I was wrong, I assumed there were two spells being cast there, when it was only Air Hammer. The first line was Air Hammer's incantation. "Hagaraasu" is without a doubt "Hagalaz", the rune for "Hail". "Deru" still bothers me though. It's not the only time it appears, Tabitha casts a spell called Ice Storm in one of the sidestories whose incantation is "ラグーズ・ウォータル・デル・ウィンデ" (Laguz Water Deru Winde) and then there's Wardes' "ユビキタス・デル・ウィンデ" (Ubiquitous Deru Winde).

Now, if I assume that it's ALL English, Deru would have to be "dell" as in "valley", thus making Air Hammer's incantation "Dell Hagalaz [Valley Precipitation]" and Wardes' "Ubiquitous Dell Wind" remains as it is. The fact that it's "ウィンデ" instead of "ウィンド" does make me wonder if it's not meant to be German after all, but since there's a precedent for English words being injected into incantations, yet none for German, I'm inclined to go with the all-English version...
I was doing a some research and looking at the context of the novel where it is mentioned and it would seem to me that deru would actually translate to thunderous or strong. Now with that said here is what the spells would translate to:

Air Hammer = Deru Hagalaz [Thunderous Precipitation] in other word blast of wind
Ubiquitous Deru Winde would actually be an uneven thunderous wind

But that is just my two cents worth. :D
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by Wolfpup »

It would be nice and help the editors and translators if the information in kenji and english below was actualy in the Naming Giudlines page and as the discution of names here get worked out for any new names then they get added to the Naming Giudlines page.
Sushi-Y wrote: ============================================
Volume 1 Keywords

Names:
ルイズ・フランソワーズ・ル・ブラン・ド・ラ・ヴァリエール - Louise Françoise Le Blanc de la Vallière (ゼロのルイズ - Louise the Zero)
平賀 才人 (ひらが さいと) - Hiraga Saito
キュルケ・アウグスタ・フレデリカ・フォン・アンハルツ・ツェルプストー - Kirche Augusta Frederica von Anhalt Zerbst (微熱のキュルケ - Kirche the Slight Fever)
フレイム - Flame
シエスタ - Siesta
タバサ - Tabitha (雪風のタバサ - Tabitha the Snowstorm)
シルフィード - Sylphid (風韻竜 - Wind Rhyme Dragon)
ギーシュ・ド・グラモン - Guiche de Gramont (青銅のギーシュ - Guiche the Bronze)
ヴェルダンデ - Verdandi
ワルキューレ - Valkyrie
モンモランシー・マルガリタ・ラ・フェール・ド・モンモランシ - Montmorency Margarita la Fère de Montmorency (香水のモンモランシー - Montmorency the Fragrance)
ロビン - Robin
マリコンヌ - Malicorne (風上のマリコンヌ - Malicorne the Windward)
オールド・オスマン - Old Osman
モートソグニル - Motsognir
ロングビル (フーケ) - Longueville (Fouquet) (土くれのフーケ - Fouquet the Dirt Crumb)
コルベール - Colbert (炎蛇のコルベール - Colbert the Flame Serpent)
シュヴルーズ - Chevreuse (赤土のシュヴルーズ - Chevreuse the Red Clay)
マルトー - Marteau
ペリッソン - Pelisson
スティックス - Styx
マニカン - Minican
エイジャックス - Ajax
ギムリー - Gimli

Terms:
始祖ブリミル - Founder Brimir
ハルケギニア - Halkeginia
トリステイン王国 - Kingdom of Tristain
ゲルマニア - Germania
トリステイン魔法学院 - Tristain Academy of Magic
アルヴィーズの食堂 - Alvíss Dining Hall
フェニアのライブラリー - Fenrir's Library
ヴェストリの広場 - Vestri Courtyard
ブルドンネ街 - Bourdonné Street
ラ・ロシェール - La Rochelle
サモン・サーヴァント - Summon Servant
コントラクト・サーヴァント - Contract Servant
眠りの鐘 - The Bell of Slumber
虚無 - Void
虚無の使い魔 - Familiar of Void
ガンダールヴ - Gandálfr
デルフリンガー - Derflinger
シュペー卿の剣 - Lord Spee's Sword
エキュー金貨 - Ecu Gold
新金貨 - New Gold
破壊の杖(M72ロケットランチャー) - Staff of Destruction (M72 Rocket Launcher)
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touya13
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by touya13 »

im translating vol 14 ch 1 and found new term to be named properly;

テーニャンの森だ[forest of teniyan/te^nyan no mori da]

カステルモール殿[kasuterumo^ru dono]

バッソ・カステルモール[[batsuso] [kasuterumoru]]

サン・マロン[san maron/(translated it could be saint mallon]

フランダール[hurandaru]

リュティス[riyuteisu]
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by Ephyon »

Might wanna give a bit more context than that, most of the stuff in ZnT are approximations of foreign names that we have to puzzle out by region and blind guessing until we land on something that sounds like it.

“テーニャン”: Random googling gives me a couple of results that somehow link “サン・テーニャン” with Louis XIV. Louis XIV was the one who created the Duchy de La Valliére for Louise Francoise, so I’m guessing whatever this is, is linked to Tristain, but I can’t seem to find any French name that approximates the spelling or whatever the hell this is supposed to be. It's "St. SOMETHING", but hell if I know.

“バッソ・カステルモール”: (Charles Ogier de) Batz (de) Castelmore. Better known as the guy Dumas based d'Artagnan on.

“フランダール”: Context? Person? Location? Object? "Farandole" (A type of french dance)? “Frandall”? "Fran Dahl"?

”サン・マロン”: Again, context. Sounds like St. Maron, though the dude was Syriac, so I’m not sure how he fits into this setting. Could also be Mallon.

リュティス: Lutèce. It’s Gallia’s capital.
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touya13
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by touya13 »

Ephyon wrote: “フランダール”: Context? Person? Location? Object? "Farandole" (A type of french dance)? “Frandall”? "Fran Dahl"?



リュティス: Lutèce. It’s Gallia’s capital.

well i thank you for the information. i think i get the hang of it, trying to figure out the sound of the katakana. yes, i think frandall could be it, its a person... thank you yet again^_^
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by Ephyon »

Alright, cross-referencing a Japanese version of The Three Musketeers results in "サン・テーニャン、マリコルヌの忠告に従う" being the Japanese translation of the title of Chapter 176, "Saint-Aignan suit le conseil de Malicorne".

This would make "テーニャンの森" into "Aignan Forest".

This is why I said context is vital. The spelling in katakana is fundamentally wrong even though that's the official translation, the only way I figured it out is because thinking of Louis XIV and d'Artagnan gave me the idea to check The Three Musketeers. And all this assuming Yamaguchi doesn't make a mistake, which wouldn't be unprecedented.
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by Wolfpup »

Ephyon wrote:Alright, cross-referencing a Japanese version of The Three Musketeers results in "サン・テーニャン、マリコルヌの忠告に従う" being the Japanese translation of the title of Chapter 176, "Saint-Aignan suit le conseil de Malicorne".

This would make "テーニャンの森" into "Aignan Forest".

This is why I said context is vital. The spelling in katakana is fundamentally wrong even though that's the official translation, the only way I figured it out is because thinking of Louis XIV and d'Artagnan gave me the idea to check The Three Musketeers. And all this assuming Yamaguchi doesn't make a mistake, which wouldn't be unprecedented.
thx for the assistance for the name of the forest and come to think of it Tinian is the name of one of the Three Musketeers.


p.s. I'm helping touya13 with the editing of the script
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by Ephyon »

Wolfpup wrote:Tinian is the name of one of the Three Musketeers.
Not that I remember, no. The three were Athos, Porthos and Aramis
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by touya13 »

thank you for assistance on how to cross reference..i will apply this to my work^_^
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by Wolfpup »

Here is an sugestion on how to reformat the Naming Guide Lines so that translators and editors will have a good reference for while working on this project.


*Kirche
** Title Name (complete): Kirche Augusta Frederica von [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhalt-Zerbst Anhalt Zerbst] (キュルケ・アウグスタ・フレデリカ・フォン・アンハルツ・ツェルプストー)
** Nickname: Kirche the Ardent (微熱のキュルケ)
** Affinity: Fire
** Familiar:
***Name: Flame (フレイム)
***Type: fire salamander

Please note that the orginal kanji is in () that way if some comes to the project fresh there is at least a more complete reference gide for them. Also note that for the main charecters there is a more structured description of each charcter.
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Re: Zero no Tsukaima Names and Terminology

Post by Wolfpup »

Akirasav wrote:To be clear, I have been using whatever info is in the Zero no Tsukaima Naming Guidelines. Currently, "Ondine ・ Knight Corps of the Water Spirit" is written in there.

It doesn't matter to me what the chosen names are. But in order to make standardizing 11+ chapters easier on the editors, we should agree to names in the forums and keep the guidelines up to date.
Well it looks like there is no one wanting to work on really up dating the Naming Guidelines for ZnT. I'm working on redoing the script to include the original text when ever i find it here in the forums. I have posted a "preview" of it to the discussion page for the naming guidelines.
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