Global warming

[Mystes]

It's 25 degrees Celcius or around 75 Farenheit in QC. That is NOT normal at all.

[hobogunner]

It's pretty normal on my end, upper 30s during the morning and lower 70s during the days. Don't think it's that global.

[ainsoph9]

First, can we move this to the debate thread?

Second, this was one of the warmest winters on record, at least in the United States. That said, that does not prove global warming to be true or false. Likewise, the amount of data that we have on record for temperatures is only good for the past few hundred years at best. Beyond that, we have no data. Hence, trying to extrapolate further data from our present set to thousands or more of years ago is bad science. As such, we cannot establish a trend to say that global warming/cooling is occurring.

In addition, other factors outside of human factors can affect the climate such as the sun, volcanic activity, etc. However, this does not mean that human factors do not factor into the equation. I will refrain from going down this rabbit trail for now. Regardless, the amount of effect that humans have had on the environment and climate is highly debatable at best.

Lastly, I will just say that the methods that scientists have used and continue to use vary with some methods proving to be better than others. An extreme example is sabotaging the data to make oneself look good is obviously not a good scientific method nor is it ethical (and potentially is illegal). That is not to point fingers at anybody, but I will say that doing so does not help one's cause in the long run.

[ben1234]

First, can we move this to the debate thread?

Second, this was one of the warmest winters on record, at least in the United States. That said, that does not prove global warming to be true or false. Likewise, the amount of data that we have on record for temperatures is only good for the past few hundred years at best. Beyond that, we have no data. Hence, trying to extrapolate further data from our present set to thousands or more of years ago is bad science. As such, we cannot establish a trend to say that global warming/cooling is occurring.

In addition, other factors outside of human factors can affect the climate such as the sun, volcanic activity, etc. However, this does not mean that human factors do not factor into the equation. I will refrain from going down this rabbit trail for now. Regardless, the amount of effect that humans have had on the environment and climate is highly debatable at best.

Lastly, I will just say that the methods that scientists have used and continue to use vary with some methods proving to be better than others. An extreme example is sabotaging the data to make oneself look good is obviously not a good scientific method nor is it ethical (and potentially is illegal). That is not to point fingers at anybody, but I will say that doing so does not help one's cause in the long run.

It was also also one of the coldest winters in Europe, so that's something to think about

[ainsoph9]

Yeah, I had a feeling that was the case. It was the exact opposite for the past two years. It was frigid in North America, but it was warm in Europe and Asia. I believe some were saying that El Nino had something to do with this year's weather.

[Mystes]

Yeah, I had a feeling that was the case. It was the exact opposite for the past two years. It was frigid in North America, but it was warm in Europe and Asia. I believe some were saying that El Nino had something to do with this year's weather.

While it was like 77 F here in QC, it was freakin SNOWING in China. That's quite a huge problem.

[ainsoph9]

Again, kira, we have to view things in their historical perspective, which we lack much of that history. Weather history records are mostly relatively new. In addition, temperature measurement only came about in the 1500s when Galileo Galilei invented the first thermoscope. Only in 1638 did Robert Fludd invent the first thermoscope with a scale to make a thermometer. Celsius and Fahrenheit did not come into use until the 1700s. So, at best, we probably have 300 years of accurate weather history in various places around the world. The number of places where data is collected has improved over time. How that data was collected is a whole different question.

I will agree that in the short term at least, we had a crazy winter. However, I am not going to cry chicken little over it because the weather and climate is largely beyond human control. I want to keep it that way; it makes life more interesting. I do not think that blaming people for global warming is worth anyone's time and breath. While I think that it is suicide to not be good stewards of the planet, I do not think that we should become paralyzed with fear or worship the planet out of fear because of the next potential environmental disaster or ice age. I feel that we often miss the point when we let the negative things in life drag us down. Global warming can be one of those, if there is global warming at all. What has the issue of global warming done for humans? Increase worry, anxiety, fear, taxes, amount of money spent on another issue in the tank, awareness that we are up another creek, strife, division, etc.? Is this really worth it? Can we find another perspective(s) to view this? My point is this: we can make the choice to view the universe as user-friendly or another disaster waiting to happen; we can choose to be happy or bogged down by the world; and we can choose between life and death, good and evil. I am not going to tell anyone here how to live. However, I get the feeling that the former choice is most likely the more desirable choice.

[Mystes]

Ainsoph, the fire won't stop if you don't do something about it. It'll continue to burn until it has nothing else to.

Let's face it this way; for a kid who spent 7 years of his life in the same place and saw snow starting to melt in the middle off march, 77 degrees is pretty unusual. Winter stops in April here in QC. And it's spring that comes after, not summer.

Closing your eyes on the deterioration of our planet's state is something you should NOT do. Hell, you have a major increase of earth surface temperature in the past 20-30 years, which is a fact. Unless you consider more than 90% of the scientists to be liars, there IS a global warming. And it's our ecosystem which will suffer.

[ainsoph9]

Spoiler! :

kira, as I said above, being poor stewards of the planet is suicide. In other words, I do not think that ignoring the problem will magically cause it to disappear. People should do something, even if it is as little as recycling. At the same time, I do not think that we need to be OCD about the problem, which is the tendency for quite a few people. Please do not get me wrong; I like passionate people and people being passionate about things. For those that are passionate about the environment, great, and I say that without any sarcasm or cynicism. However, like how many view religion on this forum, please do not push your "religion" about the environment on others like it is a Crusade, and I mean that in both the positive and negative connotations of the term.

What I am saying is that people need a balance between being "industrial pigs" and "environmental wackos." Neither extreme is healthy for us or for the environment. Having a visceral reaction to the environment based strictly on emotions or reason is not healthy either. Yet, it occurs to me that these extremes are what people tend to act upon, which is potential very damaging for all in the long run. Over-sensationalizing and overreacting done by the media, interest groups, businesses, governments, etc. will not achieve the desired goal of people living comfortably in a stable environment without fear that Angor Mois is coming tomorrow to smite us all.

As for the fact about the "major increase of earth surface temperature in the past 20-30 years," ask your parents or anyone else alive during the 60s and 70s what the fear about the global climate was. Most likely you will get the answer: global cooling. Also, the "major increase" that you speak of varies depending on who you ask. I have heard estimates of 4 degrees C (7.2 degrees F) on average, but that is considered to be a liberal estimate by some. Again, as I pointed out earlier, 20-30 years of history is a very short period of time, especially if you take the "old earth" approach. The funny thing is that you speak about global warming now, but you might be speaking about nuclear winter tomorrow in Iran. Still, both are drops in the bucket of time.

Concerning the "90% of the scientists to be liars," did you know that 99% of statistics are made up on the spot? Seriously though, the actual number of scientists that hold global warming to be true is not the majority as many, if not most, people suppose. The scientific community is quite divided on this issue. The difference is that the pro-global-warming scientists have better PR, thanks to the media. Many people do not have a clue that other factions within the scientific community exist.