Debates

[Poke2201]

Im on the other side, but I tend to be more conservative considering the deficit and all that. I do have my leftist shades, but thats usually for Social things rather than fiscal, so I am pretty disillusioned by the Republican party's pandering to the Evangelical Right. Then again, I just want ALL religion out of government... I'm wondering why no one is trying to get "In God We Trust" out of the currency >.<

Oh and another thing about asinine talking points. THE. UNITED. STATES. WAS. NOT. FOUNDED. ON. JUDEO. CHRISTIAN. IDEALS. THE. FOUNDERS. WERE. DEISTS.

[Mystes]

WTH is "In God We Trust"?

[Poke2201]

On US coins that phrase is on there. It was added, I believe, in the 50s by Joseph McCarthy.

[Mystes]

Well, it's not as if the US have the money to change all the coins.

[Poke2201]

I guess, but I would still like Separation of Church and State to be absolute.

[Mystes]

Well, but I don't mind seeing a cross in the Parliament.

[Poke2201]

Eh, but people have tried to indoctrinate me, so I'm extremely averse to religion.

[Mystes]

Who were they? Jews? Christians?

[Poke2201]

Christians with an agenda.

[Mystes]

Did you ever see Jehovah witnesses?

[Poke2201]

Weirdly, I have never encountered them out of school. The only one I know is pretty cool about it.

[Mystes]

I've never seen any.

[ainsoph9]

Im on the other side, but I tend to be more conservative considering the deficit and all that. I do have my leftist shades, but thats usually for Social things rather than fiscal, so I am pretty disillusioned by the Republican party's pandering to the Evangelical Right. Then again, I just want ALL religion out of government... I'm wondering why no one is trying to get "In God We Trust" out of the currency >.<

Oh and another thing about asinine talking points. THE. UNITED. STATES. WAS. NOT. FOUNDED. ON. JUDEO. CHRISTIAN. IDEALS. THE. FOUNDERS. WERE. DEISTS.

As far as the "Republican party's pandering to the Evangelical Right" goes, a good chunk of the Republican Party is Evangelical Christian, disregarding whether they really are pandering or not. So, really, it just could be that they are looking out for their own interests, right?

Not all of the Founding Fathers were Deists. Actually, the vast majority of the were not; 52 of the 55 went to established Orthodox churches in the colonies. Most of them attended church on a regular basis and used the Bible as the foundation for the country and their own personal lives in a devout manner. Here are some facts about our nation that you may not know:

-As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U..S Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view ... It is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!

-Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.

-As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.

-As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court Judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!

-There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington , D.C.

-James Madison, the fourth president, known as 'The Father of Our Constitution' made the
Following statement:

'We have staked the whole of all our political Institutions upon the capacity of mankind for Self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to The Ten Commandments of God.'

I received the above in an e-mail a while ago. It came with pictures, but I cannot seem to bring them up on my computer. In any case, in light of that kind of physical evidence, I do not know how they were all Deists as you claim. A Deist sees a deity of sorts as creating the world and left it alone; the Ten Commandments themselves say quite something else. So, I would imagine that they were not all Deists. So, if the Founding Fathers were not Deists and Scripture is found all over Washington, D.C., this nation's capitol, how could they not have been Judeo-Christians?

I guess, but I would still like Separation of Church and State to be absolute.

I know I have explained this before, but here goes again. Separation of Church and State does NOT mean what it has come to mean today. Separation of Church and State originally meant Separation of Church and Army, as in the times of Constantine in 325 C.E. when the term was really first coined. If you mean it in the sense that the government and religion are one and the same, then yes, I will agree with you. History has shown that to be a disaster, especially in the Byzantine Empire and current Arab world. However, government and religion having absolutely nothing to do with one another is just as dysfunctional. Rather, it is just physically impossible. The government and institutions of religion will always disagree and interact with one another to a certain extent. That is just part of the natural flow of societal interaction. Also, as far as the United States itself is concerned, this country would not exist if not for religion and Judeo-Christian principles. The Pilgrims would never have come to this land if not for their religious beliefs. No Constitution would have been written because almost all of the rights, precepts, and statements in the Constitution are Biblically based. This includes the establishment of courts and government, the right to life, the method of trial, the right to bear arms, the ban on cruel punishment, etc. So, I would not want to live in a country that did not guarantee such things, all of which have some sort of Biblical correspondence. How about you?

WTH is "In God We Trust"?

The saying itself is much, much older than Poke accredits it, as it is once again Biblically based. As for the modern use of it on coins,

"It was first used as a motto on coinage on the 1864 two-cent coin, followed in 1866 by the 5 cent nickel (1866–1883), quarter dollar, half dollar, silver dollar and gold dollars.[1][4] An 1865 law allowed the motto to be used on coins.[5] The use of the motto was permitted, but not required, by an 1873 law. While several laws come into play, the act of May 18, 1908,[6] is most often cited as requiring the motto (even though the cent and nickel were excluded from that law, and the nickel did not have the motto added until 1938). Since 1938, all coins have borne the motto." -Wikipedia

[Mystes]

Thanks a lot, ainsoph.wikia

[Poke2201]

Alright Im packing my bags to Sweden people .