Cliches

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Setherzam
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Re: Cliches

Post by Setherzam »

ShadowZeroHeart wrote:Regarding the question about the slate, its probably due to the simple logic of supply and demand. Supply without demand is a pure waste of money, time and effort. Demand is the best engine for supply. So heres the question, we all know that there is a demand for the currently so very common anime plots and stories, whereas new and unique ideas may not receive enough attention, nor generate the interest that you would want. In such cases, do you really want to put your money, your time and risk your business into this new area? As an audience, you would want changes, but if the changes are not as good as you expect, you can easily toss it away. On the other hand, if you are a company, you cant really say "Hey, i guess this cant work out afterall! lets abandon this project" after easily spending tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands or even millions, without any profit. In short, they dont wanna risk it for the small minority, but satisfy the big majority for their best benefit.

As for the absolute control... Not good in this field, and i have no idea what to change... so I wont discuss this... sorry?
I'll have to disagree with that, every now and then there are unique animes that make a big splash generate a lot of money and has a huge fan base. But, most of the time the industry does not adapt itself around these unique big shows and they end up being the exception to the rule rather then a game changer.

Lets look at some examples shall we?
Spice and Wolf, insanely popular, insanely good but has that slowed down the mindless grind of fan service and highschool plots that go no where? not really.

Bakemonogatari, Probably one of the best animes out there and also still very very popular, but again you don't see much other shows make efforts to create such a high quality script and story.

Angel Beats, Not exactly the greatest show out there but still very enjoyable and again, very popular

the list goes on and on, but the problem with these is that what makes these shows popular and unique is not very easily copied. like SHZ said, companies don't want to risk making a unique show that won't launch well and don't bring in a lot of money. This may or may not have to do with the fact that most Animes make their money from dvd and merchandise rather from TV ratings like in the states. However all is not lost, one way anime companies have been trying to make unique popular shows is adapting popular Light Novels. For some reason adaptations of LN have been much more successful then adaptations of Mangas (HotD aside).

Speaking of High School of the Dead, it has have an impact on the Japanese industry somewhat by bringing in more zeds
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Re: Cliches

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

Setherzam wrote: I'll have to disagree with that, every now and then there are unique animes that make a big splash generate a lot of money and has a huge fan base. But, most of the time the industry does not adapt itself around these unique big shows and they end up being the exception to the rule rather then a game changer.

Lets look at some examples shall we?
Spice and Wolf, insanely popular, insanely good but has that slowed down the mindless grind of fan service and highschool plots that go no where? not really.

Bakemonogatari, Probably one of the best animes out there and also still very very popular, but again you don't see much other shows make efforts to create such a high quality script and story.

Angel Beats, Not exactly the greatest show out there but still very enjoyable and again, very popular

the list goes on and on, but the problem with these is that what makes these shows popular and unique is not very easily copied. like SHZ said, companies don't want to risk making a unique show that won't launch well and don't bring in a lot of money. This may or may not have to do with the fact that most Animes make their money from dvd and merchandise rather from TV ratings like in the states. However all is not lost, one way anime companies have been trying to make unique popular shows is adapting popular Light Novels. For some reason adaptations of LN have been much more successful then adaptations of Mangas (HotD aside).

Speaking of High School of the Dead, it has have an impact on the Japanese industry somewhat by bringing in more zeds
You may want to argue with your points, but it is not entirely true... With the exception of Angel Beats, the rest all have their original adaptations, and have their own fanbase. And if you consider Angel Beats, it was not really known as "The coolest new anime" but "KEY's next masterpiece". In that case, the risk is reduced greatly, since the fanbase and willing supporters would naturally buy these, securing a source of income within that already, especially as you mentioned, the merchandise that comes along. Currently, indeed, the adaptations of LNs are much more successful, but when the popular ones are all used up, whether they can still uphold such quality would be the next question. But that would probably take quite a while...
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Re: Cliches

Post by Poke2201 »

There is a thin line between a cliche and a literary device.

Take for example a High School 2nd year.

If hes a 3rd year, Graduation might get in the way of PLOT.
1st Year, he/she is a new person, and therefore it gets a little confusing.
If that isnt enough, 2nd years have both Sempais and Kohais, thus making it much easier to write a story based on a 2nd year High School student.

Tsundere is a bit of a tricky thing.

Now lets face it, NO author is insane enough to write a story based on a happy loving couple. Thats a bit boring and contrived. If you do, please send me this story! :mrgreen:

But really Tsundere is a pretty good character to put in if one wants the romance, but with the added satisfaction of padding of the plot. Tsunderes seem to have this thing called shyness, I don't know if you have heard of it, but it keeps a piece of the plot from going too fast. I also know of a serious thing with readers that seem to love the inherent conflict of the Tsundere, mixing opposites within one person, and then reflecting it onto another which usually makes a good dynamic to play with if done right.

The thing that is a cliche however is that BEATING THE GUY TAKES when something stupid happens beyond his control.

Seriously, can we get some new reactions here?


Just sounding off into the room, but some of the things here might be a little misrepresented.
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Re: Cliches

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

Poke2201 wrote: Now lets face it, NO author is insane enough to write a story based on a happy loving couple. Thats a bit boring and contrived. If you do, please send me this story! :mrgreen:
Such a story does exist, except its so sweet I cant stand it after two volumes.... And there may be more...

Title is "獻上女神的祝福", "bestowing/giving the blessings of the goddess" (a very poor translation on my part).

First volume talks about how they met, not to forget it is LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT!

Second volume talks about how important the girl sees the guy... With a diary that consists only of what she does with him.
God!!
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For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
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If you were created to save this world,
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Re: Cliches

Post by b0mb3r »

Poke2201 wrote: The thing that is a cliche however is that BEATING THE GUY TAKES when something stupid happens beyond his control.
Man this is one of the worst cliches I hate. I just despise the sexist abuse male character gets or most times get beat in misunderstood situations (Ok granted I apologize for all the poor female figures in hentais). I want tough guys (no gangster thug tough nor bishoujo tough) like a well built character that doesn't take crap from girls. So far Kazuma is the closest fitting that in the mainstream. When guys do get beat it has to be interesting or at least they deserve it. As someone mention before, Bakemonogatari is interesting in a way that the guy either get verbally abuse sweetly or volunteers to get beat up for the sake for girls.
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Re: Cliches

Post by Poke2201 »

Bomber, When ever that beating crap happens, I immediately look around and see who the seiyuus are.

Rie Kugumiya gets pigeonholed, and I love her voice acting, so all the beating crap is a given.

But I haven't seen a story where the guy literally gets pissed at the girl for beating him up.

I also believe that Saito is just loving the beatings he gets from Louise, so I doubt that its actually BEYOND his control, but more of a choice.
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Re: Cliches

Post by b0mb3r »

Poke2201 wrote:Bomber, When ever that beating crap happens, I immediately look around and see who the seiyuus are.
what happens if it is a manga?! do I imagine my favorite seiyuus or something? not that I have any since they all sound alike.
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Re: Cliches

Post by Poke2201 »

If its a manga, I just kinda gloss over it then.

Kind of the reason I keep forgetting to read Onidere.

The beating is a little annoying.
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Re: Cliches

Post by b0mb3r »

I wonder if there is a strange american/anime collaboration that dwells on this topic. Like an american cartoon responding to stupid anime banters. goes we need more roger rabbits.
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Re: Cliches

Post by Poke2201 »

I wouldn't mind.

More Setokai no Ichizon kind of anime would be fun.
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Re: Cliches

Post by b0mb3r »

Poke2201 wrote:I wouldn't mind.

More Setokai no Ichizon kind of anime would be fun.
Ever since I watch this video where a girl was dubbing a girl in an anime while everyone continue speaking in japanese it gave me an idea of language barriers anime. instead of teaching it we see like a "lost in translation" version without bill muray and the "nightly" girl. though I've seen an flash animation on tv before on this. or drawn together.
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Re: Cliches

Post by Poke2201 »

Hmmm I wouldn't mind that at all. But what anime studio would follow that idea.
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Re: Cliches

Post by ainsoph9 »

The closest to that it Giant Killing in a sense.
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Re: Cliches

Post by Poke2201 »

Hmm I should watch that.
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Re: Cliches

Post by b0mb3r »

watch out for funny english.
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