Code Geass

[ainsoph9]

I know that, but it is more fun to play along with people's comments. I do find it funny that the Japanese have a way of working sakura into everything. The funny thing would be if some Japanese scientist discovered a new chemical compound or element and named it Sakuradite.

[Umiman]

It is Sakuradite. It's the whole premise of the show. Instead of nukes, you've got sakuradite. You stop Lancelot by stopping the Sakuradite core with that Sakuradite core stopper thing that looks like an arcade DDR full body monitor. Everything in that show is powered by Sakuradite. Trains, lights, toilets, phones, etc. That's why that train full motion arcade DDR full body monitor anti-sakuradite thing worked and stopped the whole city.

I don't understand why the Britannia army would let all those Japanese companies run free managing their most important resource. It makes no sense. Even if they threatened to blow it up, it's better to have it blown up than to let your enemy control it. If anything, it would have just made things worse for the Japanese, which is what the British would have wanted anyway.

I also don't understand why they stood idly by, sipping tea while complaining about rebels when they knew where all the rebel strongholds were. I mean... a giant, frigging, mountain fortress in the countryside? How could they miss that for a decade? You didn't even need to assault it, just bomb it with artillery or an aerial strike or something.

It doesn't make any sense at all. It's like they wanted the occupation to fail. They went completely out of their way to make the people hate them, dig a giant hole for themselves, and then completely rely on the same people who hate them to survive. Really, their occupation seems to historically mirror how the Japanese occupy a conquered territory than how the British do it.

[ainsoph9]

Well, the series is made by Japanese...

[Dan]

lol I always felt the same way. So Japan was supposedly conquered by Britannia, but somehow a small rebel "terrorist" group led by a chess genius manages to prevail?

[ainsoph9]

Well, it is a classic underdog rebel story, just like so many others out there...Historically speaking in our world though, that is pretty much what happened to the British Empire - you know, a revolt here and a revolt there. One of the pluses of being a small group is that you can respond quicker to situations usually. If you put this against a huge giant with a lot of bureaucracy, it is possible for the little guy to win. However, if there is a larger territory involved, the empire is more likely to win. The problem with an empire like Brittania moving its forces around too much is that if you do that too much and too often in order to suppress one revolt you will inevitably leave yourself open for another one. It is just a matter of military tactics. If you have not read "The Art of War," I would recommend doing so because it will help explain quite a bit about why Lelouche's tactics worked more or less. However, for modern combat, it is generally considered to be somewhat outdated. Go figure.

[Almael]

lol I always felt the same way. So Japan was supposedly conquered by Britannia, but somehow a small rebel "terrorist" group led by a chess genius manages to prevail?

Bah. A genius who misses strategic options like turning the grounds into mud? Using tactics that don't consider the actual condition of the battlefield? Such simple minded ideas won't work in reality.

[ainsoph9]

While this is an oversimplification, classic European tactics (especially British, no offense oni) were to stand in rows and columns and wait your turn to get shot. If that worked as a tactic, I do not know what would not it seems.

[Almael]

While this is an oversimplification, classic European tactics (especially British, no offense oni) were to stand in rows and columns and wait your turn to get shot. If that worked as a tactic, I do not know what would not it seems.

It worked because the whole lot was doing the same. As long as the opponents have the same advantages it's all fair.
The known people who defied the general tactics of their time are just a handful e.g. Wellington(Brit!), Alexander, Atila (huns), Djingis K....
Then again because of their simple tactics the world got off a bit better off...in a way.

[Umiman]

It wasn't a tactic or a strategy. Just like how the Japanese samurai would seek each other out in the middle of a war to duel, it was a matter of honor and respect.

Back in those days, it was considered cowardly to hide from your enemy, that's why they just stood in lines right in the open.

You can say the same thing now. Why do countries not use nukes, cluster bombs, white phosphorus, and all these other extremely effective weapons that will instantly destroy your enemy but rather just send large groups of men to die? It's the same reason, really.

[Almael]

It wasn't a tactic or a strategy. Just like how the Japanese samurai would seek each other out in the middle of a war to duel, it was a matter of honor and respect.
Back in those days, it was considered cowardly to hide from your enemy, that's why they just stood in lines right in the open.

Sorry, that's definitely bull, at least for the europeans. Have you ever seen japanese battle tactics? They are definitely on the same level or better.
The tight formations make sense due to use of their weapons and armor. The formation allowed them to push forward one line after another. But when guns where available they still use it when those make the formations worthless. Napoleon didn't realize it and sent his troops against Wellington who knew it better. Same with Alexander, he knew how to employ the right formation and movement for his weapons.

You can say the same thing now. Why do countries not use nukes, cluster bombs, white phosphorus, and all these other extremely effective weapons that will instantly destroy your enemy but rather just send large groups of men to die? It's the same reason, really.

Because there are treaties not use these weapons. The US, israel, russia are not signature nations of those. Besides, soldiers hold lands not some machine somewhere.

There's your delete button-- Kaisos

[ainsoph9]

I agree with Umiman that chivalry was much more important even one hundred years ago for how a battle was fought. However, I also agree with Almael because I think that you cannot discount the tactics involved in any battle. I will say that no matter how honorable it may be to do things in the style of a duel, it is still not very smart to do battle in such a way.

If one was to look at the number of casualties in battles that used that style of fighting, they would see very large numbers. Comparing that with more modern combat, this would off the charts. It amazes me how people scream in the media about a couple of soldiers' lives being lost when you compare that to the countless numbers of people who have lost their lives fighting for what they believed. Now, I am not saying that those few lives are any less valuable than anyone else's life. Far from it! Rather I am saying that if we are to value the sanctity of life, we need to keep things in historical perspective. I realize that for every right that I may take for granted someone died to give me such a right.

Of course, we can say that fighting a battle where one's life is practically forfeit is not wise. Yet, at the same time, I believe that there exists a certain honor to just be able to step up to the plate and fight. I do not think that everyone would be willing to do such a thing. If chivalry is honorable, then I must say that tactics can help save lives.

[Umiman]

Almael, take the rage filter off your eyes and read properly. I never said Japanese battle tactics were stupid, I said that they had moralistic principles which conducted their combat.

Since nukes were probably too extreme an example, just think of it as a fight between boxers. It would be unthinkable for another boxer to kick the other fella in the 'nads, even though it makes perfect sense. You might not know this, but practically the entirety of the American Civil War was fought like this, people marching to their deaths on the basis of honor. It's not a bad thing to follow the societal values of the time, even if we disagree with it now.

[Almael]

Why is there no delete button?
I don't meant to flame but this is going to be an interesting discussion.

Anyway, Umiman, you are giving honor, chivalry and such too much credit. Mind you that those so called Gentleman's and Samurai honor codes have been committing atrocities not very long ago, actually up to WWII. Try to explain or defend that against the millions of people who died all over the world.

Not until or even after WWII the lives of soldiers was mostly no concern to their generals. There are exceptions but those are rare. For this reason it was for them no concern to think of better fighting ways. Human live was not much worth, hence, all the recent human laws. We are sadly still a ways off to have a perfect world. Just look at Ruanda and how it was handled.

As to nukes, if you want to conquer something you don't want to ruin it. It would be idiotic otherwise.
This reminds me of a recent case...(try remembering reference data)

Edit: This is interesting.

I'm getting tired of fixing bad code. Learn 2 post. --Kaisos

[Umiman]

Yeaaaaaah... right. You keep thinking that.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Maybe you might want to take this to another thread, guys.