Anime Culture Shock

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Rednal
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by Rednal »

*Shrugs* Different cultures, different standards. I... find it hard to justify applying my culture to the actions and standards of characters in things from another country.


Also:

Apparently, in Japan, it's polite to refuse something you want at least once. Like, for example... Back to our friends Protagonist and Tsuna! That'll make this easier.



It's summer break, and Protagonist is enjoying the sunshine, the feeling of freedom, and has this burning urge to go to the pool and have fun! Like a normal person. So he goes to ask Tsuna to come with him! Tsuna has a momentary fantasy of being in a bikini at the pool (yay, fanservice!), but then says that she isn't interested, because she has something else to do. But she obviously wants to go. So! Protagonist asks again, and Tsuna consents this time... but insists he help her pick out a swimsuit before they go.

People from the West may have raised eyebrows and wonder why she didn't just say "Yeah, I'd love to go with you! We're already the Official Couple!". People in Japan, or so I hear, instead have the viewpoint of "Being demure and not appearing greedy for what you want is important, so refusing is attractive".

Yeah. Cultural standards on things. o wo I don't think the dissonance between nudity and sexuality is necessarily wrong; heck, a lot of famous art has nudity in it. Even religious art does, depending on the religion. Being honest, I've never actually understood why nudity is An Inherently Bad Thing (capitals and all). I mean, I understand Clothes = Warmth/Fashion, when there's a practical upside to wearing them. But assuming the lack of clothes to be inherently wrong at all times is kind of weird, especially when you remember that bit about famous art.

...

Though, it does remind me of Zero no Tsukaima. When Louise thinks of Saito as a thing, she strips in front of him with no care at all. As soon as he becomes a person (read: potential love interest that she acknowledges as such), it's embarassing. *Tilts head* Odd example, to me.
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by shichinanatsu »

on the subject of refusal.. maybe since phil culture has parallels, but when you refuse the first time then end up agreeing, most of the time you're gauging how much inviter wants you to agree.

on to a more specific note, tsuna-chan pretty much is too proud to outright admit that she wants to go with protag, hence the "tsun-tsun", which in typical manga/anime/game delivery either leads to protag deciding on choosing others to invite, or asking tsuna-chan again with a bit more force. both ways get tsuna-chan in a pinch, pushing her ever closer to "dere-dere"..
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by Rednal »

Protagonist: Let's go have fun!

Tsuna: Having fun is for BORING people! D< I'm not going to do anything interesting because I'm a woman who never has fun without my man there to get into improbable yet perverted situations involving me and a lack of clothes!

Protagonist: But I... you... I just invited you to go have fun in exactly that manner!

Tsuna: Oh. Okay then. But when I have my wardrobe malfunction in the pool, I'm going to use you as cover and then slap you when I pull away after forgetting that my top drifted off somehow. Because I wasn't smart enough to get one that would stay on and must hit you for things that are obviously my own fault. But then I'll be nice afterwards and let you use my lap as a pillow while you're unconscious on the way home, and you will continue to be attracted to me despite my violent and abusive behavior.

Protagonist: Yay! Cliches!



Like that?
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by shichinanatsu »

breaking the 4th wall!? :lol:

but seriously, culture shock boils down to one thing, unfamiliarity. but with continued exposure, you get to a "Level 1" wherein you realize the cultural differences and yet somehow enjoy that LN, manga, anime, VN..

"Level 2" is where you should be though, when you start thinking about why that culture is so different from yours, the rationale behind certain customs, what passes for humor on that other side of the world.. and then, hopefully, you find yourself somewhere in between, all the pieces fall into place.
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by ainsoph9 »

Rednal wrote:*Shrugs* Different cultures, different standards. I... find it hard to justify applying my culture to the actions and standards of characters in things from another country.


Also:

Apparently, in Japan, it's polite to refuse something you want at least once. Like, for example... Back to our friends Protagonist and Tsuna! That'll make this easier.



It's summer break, and Protagonist is enjoying the sunshine, the feeling of freedom, and has this burning urge to go to the pool and have fun! Like a normal person. So he goes to ask Tsuna to come with him! Tsuna has a momentary fantasy of being in a bikini at the pool (yay, fanservice!), but then says that she isn't interested, because she has something else to do. But she obviously wants to go. So! Protagonist asks again, and Tsuna consents this time... but insists he help her pick out a swimsuit before they go.

People from the West may have raised eyebrows and wonder why she didn't just say "Yeah, I'd love to go with you! We're already the Official Couple!". People in Japan, or so I hear, instead have the viewpoint of "Being demure and not appearing greedy for what you want is important, so refusing is attractive".

Yeah. Cultural standards on things. o wo I don't think the dissonance between nudity and sexuality is necessarily wrong; heck, a lot of famous art has nudity in it. Even religious art does, depending on the religion. Being honest, I've never actually understood why nudity is An Inherently Bad Thing (capitals and all). I mean, I understand Clothes = Warmth/Fashion, when there's a practical upside to wearing them. But assuming the lack of clothes to be inherently wrong at all times is kind of weird, especially when you remember that bit about famous art.

...

Though, it does remind me of Zero no Tsukaima. When Louise thinks of Saito as a thing, she strips in front of him with no care at all. As soon as he becomes a person (read: potential love interest that she acknowledges as such), it's embarassing. *Tilts head* Odd example, to me.
Actually, more traditionally Japanese culture allows for two to three refusals before accepting. However, Westernization has whittled this down to one at most. It is considered polite to do so, but it is not necessary in all situations.

As for the clothes thing, clothes were originally designed for warmth and modesty. Nowadays, it is just for looks. Girls (and some guys) sacrifice their warmth and modesty in the name of a cross called "fashion." Some of the world's religions emphasize modesty for various reasons, but it generally comes down to an expression of promoting the betterment of one's inner self. To not do so is considered shameful behavior, since it misrepresents the religion and belief system that the person espouses that they follow. Also, the lack of modesty in today's culture and society tends to show a certain shallowness of character. The message given is "I wear these kind of clothes on the outside to expose myself because I feel insecure and incomplete on the inside." Besides this point, the revealing of more skin can increase sexual arousal and potential sexual deviancy in the opposite gender, which can lead to unspeakable crimes.
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by Rednal »

What 4th wall? o wo They're just being genre savvy.
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by YoakeNoHikari »

5. characters often pull down one eyelid and stick out their tongue.
http://zokugo-dict.com/01a/akanbei.htm

I was acquainted very thoroughly with this word after playing Walkure.
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by ainsoph9 »

The interesting thing about あかんべー is that English-speakers have a close cultural equivalent, which is just sticking out the tongue without pulling down on the eyelid. Yet, it seems that the one extra action of pulling down the eyelid throws English-speakers off enough that they fail to comprehend the meaning of the Japanese gesture.
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by YoakeNoHikari »

I don't know anybody with English as a state of mind who thinks べーだ is strange.
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by Cosmic Eagle »

ainsoph9 wrote:Ah, yes. That one. The Japanese have a cognitive dissonance concerning nudity and sexuality. That is going away, thanks to the West, but the disconnect is still there.
Nothing wrong about that though....in fact it may be a pity Western influence is whittling that border away.

I mean what, you are human too....jeez it's the same physical template basically...that society is such that nudity = sexuality is just plain sad. Especially when the latter requires a state of mind while the former is just whether you are wearing anything or not...
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by ainsoph9 »

YoakeNoHikari wrote:I don't know anybody with English as a state of mind who thinks べーだ is strange.
Given my years in Anime Club in college, I had to explain that one to quite a few people. You would be surprised.
Cosmic Eagle wrote:Nothing wrong about that though....in fact it may be a pity Western influence is whittling that border away.

I mean what, you are human too....jeez it's the same physical template basically...that society is such that nudity = sexuality is just plain sad. Especially when the latter requires a state of mind while the former is just whether you are wearing anything or not...
Well, if seeing a naked person of the opposite gender does not give you some sort of sexual arousal, it comes across as seeing/smelling gourmet food and not getting hungry or salivating. (Poor comparison, I know.) Unless you are a monk, this sort of disconnect seems unnatural in a sense. You say that it is the "same physical template basically," but the physical side of things also tends to imply man's carnal desires. If you think about it, humans are sexual creatures. The average man thinks about sex several times per hour, and women are not that much better. Seeing the naked human body probably does not help decrease this count.
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by shichinanatsu »

kinda reminds me of that one incident in renaissance europe i think (forgive my history if i get it wrong..) when one influential guy from the Catholic Church had all statues of the male nude form castrated and/or censored with fig leaves, something about preventing the onset of carnal flights of fancy among the womenfolk..

granted, the human mind's predisposition to thoughts of a sexual nature might have evolutionary roots, but where in the hell did civilizations and cultures get off with mandating that carnality treads the fine line of morality, when it is this same phenomenon that guarantees our survival as a species. i get the point of it being protected as the mystery of life, but still, extreme conservatism isn't the answer.

but i'm straying.. @ainsoph, how is that disconnect unnatural? i think some people have had to pull off the same disconnect, or rather it just came naturally. think of a patient asked by a doctor to undress and be subject to a once-over, check for anything amiss like hernias.
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by Rednal »

If I remember my history right, women tend to be chastised a lot more than men for being at all sexual. *Unfortunately serious subject when you're studying it* I worry about how gender bias goes into that sometimes... as if different cultures didn't make it complicated enough already. XD;
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by ainsoph9 »

In any case, guys, I think we are straying OT here.

Here is another anime quirk: talking for hours for a 5 minute fight. Shut up and fight guys.
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Re: Anime Culture Shock

Post by Rednal »

YES. Less talking, more action. Show, don't tell.

Unless it's Bakemonogatari, but that's different.
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