On the Subject of World War II...

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Fushichou
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On the Subject of World War II...

Post by Fushichou »

My grandfather fought the Japanese in World War II. When I was young I always expected him to hate the Japanese, and yet later on in life I found that he had several Japanese friends and never really talked about the war.

But this raised questions in my curious mind as of late.

What do the Japanese think about World War II? Are they taught that what happened was utterly wrong like Germans are? And no, I'm not making a statement about whether it was wrong or not; that's just how it works in Germany -- Nazism gets talked badly about every chance possible there.
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by b0mb3r »

What pissed me off is that they don't teach students the indecent actions they did during the war, especially the Nanking Massacre. At least Germany admits their formal Nazism and their descendants turned out fine so I don't see why Japanese education can do the same.
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Fushichou
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

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Well, I can certainly come up with quite a few things they did wrong in the war. Hell, on Guadalcanal they poisoned fruits, on most islands they poisoned the water, on Okinawa they strapped bombs to babies and hid behind civilians.

Japanese doctors performed autopsies on live prisoners of war, and even ate some downed American pilots.

A lot of American soldiers just went mad in response to all of the cow-poop they saw, instigating more cruel acts.
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by Dan »

Yeah, an estimated one fourth of the Japanese civilian population on Okinawa was forced to commit suicide by the military. When the Emperor announced defeat to the Allies, over a hundred American soldiers were executed, and I don't know how many British and Australian.
That live human dissection took place mostly on the Philippine islands, my dad hasn't told me if my grandfather ever talked about it. The Germans also did human experimenting, like seeing how long people could survive in cold, in fire, what happens if babies received minimal human contact...Some of the "research" done was bought by the Allied forces after the war, and sometimes still referred to today since it is the only source of data.

To answer the original question, I've heard that the Japanese are educated to make it seem like Japan was forced to go to war (because of the oil embargo placed on them) and give themselves a "David vs Goliath" portrait. Oh and nuclear weapons are evil and killed hundreds of civilians (that were directly supporting the war effort). They whitewash pretty much everything, but still say "war is bad".
The Germans seem to have been more repentant of their actions, and it's too bad many people still give them that image. What happened was certainly an atrocity, but most of the German population wouldn't have been able to act against the military and those in the military were forced to follow orders on penalty of death. There is one story about a US general forcing the nearby population to walk through a concentration camp after they captured it and the mayor of the city committed suicide because he had no clue what was happening there.
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

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I think we just have to face it: Japan was never invaded and forced to do a cultural upheaval like the Germans were. Nationalism still existed, though in small bits, while racism and ESPECIALLY ethnocentrism did and still do exist today.

A lot of Japanese simply refuse to listen or acknowledge that the only people downplaying on their crimes are the Japanese. No one else in the world but a Japanese ever argues with the facts, because the rest of the world knows the facts, while many Japanese revisionists are in a sort of nationalistic denial.
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by shichinanatsu »

.. history is written by the victors, or so one would likely think.. most of the time it takes an IMMENSE amount of humility to even think of admitting to your homeland's atrocities in the past.. besides such a wartime reputation would be painful to ANY nation, just so happens that japan is a tad more of a stickler for personal and national honor..
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by Fushichou »

The personal and national honor they so strive for is damaged by their blatant disregard for reality, to be perfectly honest.
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by Rectifier »

American nuclear bombs killed ~220 thousand Japanese and many Americans are, if not remorseful, respectful of the tragedy that took place.

However, the cruel firebombing campaign of Japan's wooden cities killed an estimated 500,000 Japanese, and hardly any Americans even know about it, let alone know that it was far worse than the nuclear strikes.

Ignorance and cruelty goes both ways in my opinion. Yes the victors do write history, this has been proven time and time again. I believe that the only way to stop bloodshed and the resulting social beliefs from happening is to permanently end the cycle of hatred.
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by b0mb3r »

Rectifier wrote:The only way to stop bloodshed and the resulting social beliefs from happening is to permanently end the cycle of hatred.
But as history dictates we will always have war. We can't stop the cycle since is a very much part of life.
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by Dan »

shichinanatsu wrote:.. history is written by the victors, or so one would likely think.. most of the time it takes an IMMENSE amount of humility to even think of admitting to your homeland's atrocities in the past.. besides such a wartime reputation would be painful to ANY nation, just so happens that japan is a tad more of a stickler for personal and national honor..
Like I've said, Germany has done more than enough to repent for their role in the wars. They even have a huge wall like the memorial in Washington for soldiers, only it honors the Jews that were killed. I think just recently Germany finished paying off war reparations to France. Countries will downplay their wartime roles, but Japan will outright deny their actions.

I think a lot of people know about the fire bombings (they happened in Germany as well - Dresden), but those accumulated over years of war. Only two nuclear weapons killed all those thousands which makes it seem a lot more heartless.

War will not always be around. Once weapons have reached a certain amount of destructive force, no one will want to risk going to war because the consequences of war will be worse than any status quo. I know it sounds like I'm a war monger, but having a bigger stick really will reduce the amount of fighting. The problem is conflicts that arise not between nations, but between ideals, like the current wars the USA is fighting.
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by Rectifier »

b0mb3r wrote:
Rectifier wrote:The only way to stop bloodshed and the resulting social beliefs from happening is to permanently end the cycle of hatred.
But as history dictates we will always have war. We can't stop the cycle since is a very much part of life.
History dictates we will always have conflict not necessarily war. And conflict does not necessarily need to involve killing other human beings either.

Example: I saw in the newspaper today that Greece was thinking about suing America about helping to ruin their economy (won't go into details, and I don't really care for them either). Turn the clock back even a hundred years, if that was a nearby nation, they definitely would have tried to use force for ruining their economy.
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by shichinanatsu »

Rectifier wrote:American nuclear bombs killed ~220 thousand Japanese and many Americans are, if not remorseful, respectful of the tragedy that took place.

However, the cruel firebombing campaign of Japan's wooden cities killed an estimated 500,000 Japanese, and hardly any Americans even know about it, let alone know that it was far worse than the nuclear strikes.

Ignorance and cruelty goes both ways in my opinion. Yes the victors do write history, this has been proven time and time again. I believe that the only way to stop bloodshed and the resulting social beliefs from happening is to permanently end the cycle of hatred.
perhaps, cruelty manifests because humans choose to be ignorant of the humanity of their peers? just a thought.. also, hatred - in the context of inter-sociocultural strife - is likely caused by a refusal to acknowledge an alternative mindset; that there can only be one measure upon which society should stand by and be judged. to further aggravate the situation, there is hardly ever a case when two vastly different socio-cultural populations on hostile terms are of equal socio-economic standing. there are a lot of, should i say, religion-controlled nations in this world, and such nations are rarely as well-off as say, the member nations of NATO. yes, i'm talking mostly about the Islam nations of the Near and Middle East. religious fanatics think, it is we who rightfully deserve the grace of God/Allah, so how come those infidels get to dictate the world's economy?

problem is, how do we actually stop this cycle of hatred?
Dan wrote:War will not always be around. Once weapons have reached a certain amount of destructive force, no one will want to risk going to war because the consequences of war will be worse than any status quo. I know it sounds like I'm a war monger, but having a bigger stick really will reduce the amount of fighting. The problem is conflicts that arise not between nations, but between ideals, like the current wars the USA is fighting.
Rectifier wrote:History dictates we will always have conflict not necessarily war. And conflict does not necessarily need to involve killing other human beings either.

somehow, these arguments remind me of the following mental duels: Rau Le Creuset vs. Kira Yamato regarding Naturals and Coordinators, Gilbert Durandal vs. Kira Yamato regarding the Destiny Plan, Charles vs. Lelouch regarding Ragnarok, Schneizel vs. Lelouch regarding Damocles.. it'll probably be too lengthy and tedious if i elaborate, so i hope the aforementioned are cliche enough for me to reference them.. 8)
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by Rectifier »

shichinanatsu wrote:
Rectifier wrote:American nuclear bombs killed ~220 thousand Japanese and many Americans are, if not remorseful, respectful of the tragedy that took place.

However, the cruel firebombing campaign of Japan's wooden cities killed an estimated 500,000 Japanese, and hardly any Americans even know about it, let alone know that it was far worse than the nuclear strikes.

Ignorance and cruelty goes both ways in my opinion. Yes the victors do write history, this has been proven time and time again. I believe that the only way to stop bloodshed and the resulting social beliefs from happening is to permanently end the cycle of hatred.
perhaps, cruelty manifests because humans choose to be ignorant of the humanity of their peers? just a thought.. also, hatred - in the context of inter-sociocultural strife - is likely caused by a refusal to acknowledge an alternative mindset; that there can only be one measure upon which society should stand by and be judged. to further aggravate the situation, there is hardly ever a case when two vastly different socio-cultural populations on hostile terms are of equal socio-economic standing. there are a lot of, should i say, religion-controlled nations in this world, and such nations are rarely as well-off as say, the member nations of NATO. yes, i'm talking mostly about the Islam nations of the Near and Middle East. religious fanatics think, it is we who rightfully deserve the grace of God/Allah, so how come those infidels get to dictate the world's economy?

problem is, how do we actually stop this cycle of hatred?
Communication.
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by shichinanatsu »

such a simple solution for such a complicated dilemma.. i totally agree with you, but i can't help but remember something - though not the exact quote, the idea itself should be readily recognizable..

the simplest solution always ends up as the the most difficult to apply..
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Re: On the Subject of World War II...

Post by Rectifier »

It's definitely not my idea, though I forget where I heard it from, its the best argument towards conflict resolution that I've ever heard.
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