You know there's dense, and then there's Kyon.

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typhonsentra
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You know there's dense, and then there's Kyon.

Post by typhonsentra »

I can accept a character being oblivious to subtle hints, but when he is able to pick up on the subtle changes in reaction the way he did in the most current scenes described in the prologue, you're just insulting the intelligence of the reader. It's kinda like when the Lost (I reference this program a lot but the comparison seems apt here.) creators admitted they're keeping the characters from asking obvious questions about the island to keep the mystery going. Would it really kill the tension is he was aware of Haruhi's attraction for him?
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magus
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Post by magus »

He knows his own feelings and haruhi's very well......... he just don't want to adimitt it.......... it's you "normal" HL syndrome :lol:
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HolyCow
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Post by HolyCow »

Agreed. Kyon's not stupid. He's most likely trying to deny the fact that Haruhi likes him, just like how he tried to freak out after kissing her in Vol 1.
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Setherzam
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Post by Setherzam »

he did more then just freak out.... Honestly if I were in his position I would be reacting in a lot more dramatic way. Its Haruhi we're talking about....
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ainsoph9
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Kyon + Haruhi + rant = Lost in Space

Post by ainsoph9 »

I don't know. Kyon is definitely not the brightest bulb in the box when it comes to several things. Obviously, philosophy and meta-physics are not his strong suit as with most people, and some of the philosophy that Koizumi spouts is pretty deep. The other is relationships. Kyon is good at noticing things hence his solution of the first murder mystery. (Sorry if this is a spoiler for some of you!) However, when it comes to noticing things related to people that is completely different. Yes, he is good at noticing how Asahina-san has changed her outfits and how good she looks in them. That is not the kind of "things related to people" I mean. Rather, when it comes to interacting with them, he is awkward, which is probably part of the reason he is "stuck" in the SOS Brigade in the first place. I say this in the most non-racial way possible, but he is too Japanese, at least with his mannerisms outside of his sarcasm. If Kyon really knew about Haruhi liking him, then I think that he would show it in his thoughts a little more. We are after all hearing this story from his viewpoint. Right now, I think he is too busy looking at Asahina-san to notice Haruhi. The only thing he notices is Haruhi's shouts and commands. Also, Kyon's perception of good-looking girls is a bit interesting to say the least, given that he never went after Sasaki and has three of the most beautiful girls from his high school in sight. Maybe it is a personality issue...
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MattW
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Post by MattW »

I wouldn't say he's not interested in girls. He considered pursuing Haruhi the first week of classes, tried to strike up a conversation with her. It's just not a priority to him. He may have been too young to think of Sasaki that way, or maybe Haruhi's beauty is a type different from hers. It's true she acts toward him like a friend would, anyway. I don't think it's so unrealistic.

Not noticing the bike routine cliche I can understand, if he doesn't have the idea of romantic actions and he develops his attitude toward that particular actions as a young middle-schooler in a purely Platonic way, the cliche isn't so obvious it would override that. The going to college together thing though, I can understand how he may not have thought about it in middle school, but now that he's thinking back on it in the context of what Koizumi's suggesting, he'd be dumb not to realize what his mother was thinking.

Random thought for what the next few lines of the chapter will be that I just came up with subconsciously (note: not totally fitting for something Kyon might say, but close enough):
"Do you mean Haruhi misunderstood something? I seriously doubt that girl would bother interpeting my relationship with Sasaki as you describe it. Consider I'm the guy she charges with 'menial tasks'."

Koizumi immediately buried his face in his hands and said nothing for a period of time. Did I just discover his weakness?
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ainsoph9
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Kyon is more mature, maybe

Post by ainsoph9 »

I'm not saying that Kyon is not interested in girls so much as I am saying that he is just not good in noticing things dealing with relationships with people in general. And I don't know so much about him not having girls as a priority. One word: Asahina-san. Do I need to say more? Half of Kyon's thoughts concern her and her moe traits. Otherwise, I agree with you, MattW. Oh, and the future line thing: funny stuff.
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76 SAN
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Post by 76 SAN »

Kyon isn't dumb, really.

When I read the novels, I can clearly see his conscious mind squirm and wind around the events in his life.

A few important things that pop up in later novels:
  • Kyon's gone as far to ask Mikuru what her feelings are, but clearly her future is more important, and he finally ackknowledges that anything between him and Mikuru is a fantasy. (Personally their relationship is as deep as a puddle anyway. Mikuru as a character hasn't changed.)
  • Kyon has finally managed to admit to himself that were the SOS Brigade to disband due to Haruhi's stablisation, he would be very lonely.
What's really going on in his subconscious is pretty simple, he's batshit scared of what Haruhi's feelings mean for him. Reasons?
  1. She's the master of his freaking universe.
  2. Being close to Haruhi is very important to him, why jeapordise that by reciprocating the feelings of the girl that thinks that love is a disease?
  3. Deep down he wants to tell Haruhi everything. He personally knows what it is to not want the world to be a mundane place, as he did when he was younger. He's been lying to Haruhi all this time. It's no wonder that he can't be honest with himself.
(We can't imagine that he's got any concern for his dignity anymore.)

So his conscious mind just has Haruhi as a blank spot when it comes to noticing things. He's smart, he notices everything except what's related to Haruhi's feelings. This goes for the two times that Itsuki has aloud admitted that he deeply admires Haruhi. No response on Kyon's part, the thought of anyone else having feelings for Haruhi is just as alien to him at present.

In summary, Kyon is not perceiving it consciously because his subconscious won't let him.

I sure hope that was easy enough to read.
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canthelpit
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Post by canthelpit »

i have to agree with typhonsentra ;)

given his character, kyon's stupidity/ignorance of the situation is too exaggerated and the whole relationship question has been drawn out for too long. as a male, it requires too much suspense of disbelief for me.

i am a little disgruntled with the whole thing right now but if tanigawa makes some VERY significant progress with the relationship question by next novel i will be significantly happier with the series.
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Dragoon
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Post by Dragoon »

I expect that at some point should Haruhi come close to losing her powers completely, Kyon would do something to jump start them again just so their crazy adventures can keep going.

For all of his complaining, this is exactly the kind of world Kyon had hoped for and now has.
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Setherzam
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Post by Setherzam »

he laready id that in a sense, with the alt world thing that he hit the escape program
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Dan
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Post by Dan »

Yeah, what an idiot. That Yuki version was all over him. >__<
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76 SAN
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Post by 76 SAN »

And how very wrong that was.
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Quiet Lurker
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Post by Quiet Lurker »

Dan wrote:Yeah, what an Kunikida. That Yuki version was all over him. >__<
Of course, if Kyon had not used the escape program, he would most likely be dead. :(
Since there is no time traveling in the alternate Yukiverse and alternate-Yuki can't save him when Asakura Ryoko decides to make some Kyon-kabob. :evil:
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magus
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Post by magus »

Quiet Lurker wrote:
Dan wrote:Yeah, what an Kunikida. That Yuki version was all over him. >__<
Of course, if Kyon had not used the escape program, he would most likely be dead. :(
Since there is no time traveling in the alternate Yukiverse and alternate-Yuki can't save him when Asakura Ryoko decides to make some Kyon-kabob. :evil:
The altered asakura is just there to make sure yuki is happy....... so i don't think she would have tried to kill kyon :? .
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