My theory about the rise of Sasaki

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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by shichinanatsu »

i think cognitive dissonance has something to do with haruhi's remaining in the dark concerning everything happening around her.. she does yearn for the extraordinary, granted, but now that she notices that something is amiss in her SOS-Dan, she can't really convince herself that it is actually something worth looking into. i mean, looking back at v2, she told kyon that the group she assembled couldn't possibly be made up of suspicious characters, as it would be too easy. remember, she still is quite in touch with reality, however twisted her mindset is; she might have 'remade' herself right after baseball game realization, but her self-concept is being threatened by the fact that she can get along so very well with kyon, epitome of normal high school student.

edit: also a notable fact is haruhi experiencing existential anxiety so early in her life (11-12yrs old, 6th year of grade school). if we set aside the fact that this is literature we're talking about, haruhi is in fact a very unique individual, as in the real world people usually experience existential anxiety in their early 20s onwards. the whole spiel of 'my everyday life is meaningless; i should do something to make my existence worthwhile, something i will be remembered for, so that when i die i will feel that there was a point to living' usually precedes or follows time spent in isolation (psychologically, not physically), or - if one allows for some leeway - after being introduced to existentialism. i don't know much about nihon culture and philosophy to warrant this as true, but haruhi has turned out a deviant, in all aspects of the word. you could also say that after 'baseball game', haruhi followed the same line of thought as galileo, with the phrase 'i woke up, only to find the rest of the world asleep' as iconic of the time period. along these lines, haruhi must have felt pity for everyone around her, family to people she comes across on the streets. she spent an important (not necessarily large) part of her life trying to leave a mark, that 'i don't want to just go through the motions, i want to make each and every day as unique as ever.'

then here comes kyon, as john smith. i don't intend to just exaggerate things, but following from what i said above, if haruhi had not found someone else who acknowledges her existence, even if she did bother doing a last-ditch effort to enliven her existence, without kyon's presence haruhi might very well have taken her life. teenagers are renowned for their emotional instability, and haruhi is certainly no exception. tanigawa nagaru-san certainly is to be commended, for subconsciously sending out a different meaning to 'the nail that stands out gets hammered'. if you will, he placed so much angst between the lines, and yet made it so light-hearted, as to capture the hearts of even those who don't usually favor angst-laden media.

just a thought...
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by AuraTwilight »

I don't think Haruhi cares so much about leaving a mark on history or anything, much less pity for other people. She's just someone who refuses to grow up and wants to see magic and wonder in the world.

As for why Haruhi doesn't notice, I'm sure she suspects something (Tsuruya did, and the parallels drawn before her and Haruhi are a running theme), but Koizumi himself stated that Haruhi's sense of reality is in perfect working order. How is she going to come to the conclusion that the SOS Brigade is supernatural unless it's expressly shown to her? She probably just thinks they're screwing with her.
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by cicero225 »

If we take Koizumi's God theory at face value (a big if), then Haruhi's entire life before "3 years ago" (including the baseball stadium) could be a reflection of her previous existence(s) or even previous godhood...and existential angst is exactly what an imperfect God (or even god) would experience. I mean, think about it: omnipotence, omniscience-after an infinite existence, where everything has been tried, what stops the ennui? What's the purpose to your existence? (Not even going to get into finite existences and infinite combinations of infinite possibilities...) A "perfect" God would have no such problems, such they'd be made of purpose (or something...). It's hard to imagine a godlike being that thinks in any way human that can perpetually avoid such angst.
Of course, the theory that Haruhi=God has lost a lot of ground since Vol. 2.
shichinanatsu wrote: then here comes kyon, as john smith. i don't intend to just exaggerate things, but following from what i said above, if haruhi had not found someone else who acknowledges her existence, even if she did bother doing a last-ditch effort to enliven her existence, without kyon's presence haruhi might very well have taken her life. teenagers are renowned for their emotional instability, and haruhi is certainly no exception. tanigawa nagaru-san certainly is to be commended, for subconsciously sending out a different meaning to 'the nail that stands out gets hammered'. if you will, he placed so much angst between the lines, and yet made it so light-hearted, as to capture the hearts of even those who don't usually favor angst-laden media.
That's quite an interpolation of Haruhi's personality. Personally, I doubt Haruhi would ever consider such a thing; if anything the world gets remade first. That's a good point about the angst, though I would prefer to call it melancholy. Someone made a good point once about how everyone in the Sos-dan has some hidden sadness...and yeah, try to imagine yourself in Haruhi's position. The logical line of thought is not "my brigade is acting weird and there are certain inconsistencies in events. Therefore, my brigade members must be aliens/time travelers/espers." Still, the secret probably isn't eternally maintable. What's to stop the next Asakura from materializing in front of Haruhi while Nagato is distracted?
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by shichinanatsu »

cicero225, a note.. when thinking of haruhi-verse, do try and abandon - if only temporarily - any previous concepts you have concerning god (if you can..). considering the disparity of the western concept of god and the nihon concept of kami, generalizing all mention of 'god' as pertaining to 'supreme being' does not allow for cultural differences. also, it is more politically correct (i think) to label haruhi as an embodiment of force majeure, or probably a reality-warper; if i am allowed a bit more leeway, she could be one of either yin or yang (with kyon being the other half).

back in sasa no ha/bamboo leaf rhapsody, haruhi wished for the world to revolve around her. this means haruhi herself still doesn't feel like she is the center of reality, or can ever be, for that matter. no matter how hard she tries to convince herself otherwise, the very existence of kyon - and consequently, his being with her - counters this. unfortunately, kyon himself is very much unaware of his de-mystifying haruhi. back in v1, kyon told this to haruhi.

"Haruhi, these last few days, I've gone through some very interesting things. Though you may not know it, there are all sorts of people who are very concerned about you. It's not ridiculous to say that the world literally revolves around you. Everyone believes you are a very special person, and they've tried to back up those beliefs with actions. You may not know it, but the world is headed in a very interesting direction."

effectively, kyon restored haruhi's hope for the world; that there still is something interesting for her to experience, and that - though indirectly - kyon will be with her every step of the way. yet, though kyon has been exposed to the beliefs of aliens, time travelers, and espers, that haruhi is a possibility for evolution, warp in the STC, and Kami-sama, he still treats haruhi as haruhi. he treats her as a person, as an equal, possibly even as a woman (only vaguely in the light novels). and haruhi is very much intrigued by this; kyon's archetypal normalcy aside, he was the only one to ever acknowledge her after she changed her view of reality (and eventually, reality itself). that in itself has eased - if not dealt away with - haruhi's melancholy, loneliness, existential anxiety. from then on out, she subconsciously remakes herself into a 'normal' human being - to become more like kyon, and yet retain her uniqueness - as she is somehow has faith in kyon's being by her side, no matter who, or what she may have been, is, and will be.


this is all speculation; probably tanigawa nagaru-san never even considered all those between-the-lines when he wrote suzumiya haruhi. a work of literature stops becoming the author's thoughts the moment another person reads it; the literature takes on a life of its own. *me hopes to get this series for some serious literary dissecting in the hands of lit. professors, probably even get this series as required reading in whatever subjects possible
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by cicero225 »

shichinanatsu wrote:cicero225, a note.. when thinking of haruhi-verse, do try and abandon - if only temporarily - any previous concepts you have concerning god (if you can..). considering the disparity of the western concept of god and the nihon concept of kami, generalizing all mention of 'god' as pertaining to 'supreme being' does not allow for cultural differences. also, it is more politically correct (i think) to label haruhi as an embodiment of force majeure, or probably a reality-warper; if i am allowed a bit more leeway, she could be one of either yin or yang (with kyon being the other half).
Well, there's a reason I emphasized that I was somewhat following Koizumi's original theory, which was rather heavy on the "supreme being" side of things. I'm quite aware of the cultural differences here (though I would not claim to know them in full detail), but it's not necessarily invalid to examine things from a different or unusual perspective, especially if the specified work has definite western influences. Yes, Haruhi=reality-warper is clearly the stronger theory at this point, and it's the one I favor. I tend to just speculate and draw things to their logical conclusion, whatever they may be, but I try to preface with "given that" or "if this is true..." My actual opinions are stated as such. Perhaps this is unclear?
I've always been partial to yin/yang complement type theories for this series. They somehow just seem more thematically pleasing. One could for instance think about how both yin and yang are each supposed to contain within themselves the seed of the other one. One also wonders, in general, just how coincidental Kyon's meeting with Haruhi was.
shichinanatsu wrote: *me hopes to get this series for some serious literary dissecting in the hands of lit. professors, probably even get this series as required reading in whatever subjects possible
That would take quite some doing, but would be amazing.
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by fiendmaw »

Interesting theories,keep it up :P
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by AuraTwilight »

If we take Koizumi's God theory at face value (a big if), then Haruhi's entire life before "3 years ago" (including the baseball stadium) could be a reflection of her previous existence(s) or even previous godhood...and existential angst is exactly what an imperfect God (or even god) would experience. I mean, think about it: omnipotence, omniscience-after an infinite existence, where everything has been tried, what stops the ennui? What's the purpose to your existence? (Not even going to get into finite existences and infinite combinations of infinite possibilities...) A "perfect" God would have no such problems, such they'd be made of purpose (or something...). It's hard to imagine a godlike being that thinks in any way human that can perpetually avoid such angst.
Of course, the theory that Haruhi=God has lost a lot of ground since Vol. 2.
Koizumi said she might be God, but that doesn't mean she had to be a super-hyper-ultra cosmic being like the gods of most religions. Perhaps she was a human who gained her power, or is God, but had no prior existence and just up'n made herself, or something. Whatever the case, Haruhi doesn't fit any traditional mold of the term "God", so she shouldn't be theorized as such. Otherwise, if you're not working with that assumption, I don't see how Volume 2 damages the theory in any way except for Koizumi projecting that Haruhi doesn't have the imagination to create the entirety of the universe, but again, we're not working with a Judeo-Christian or similar model of Godhood. I would guess that she's more of a Posthuman God.
That's quite an interpolation of Haruhi's personality. Personally, I doubt Haruhi would ever consider such a thing; if anything the world gets remade first. That's a good point about the angst, though I would prefer to call it melancholy. Someone made a good point once about how everyone in the Sos-dan has some hidden sadness...and yeah, try to imagine yourself in Haruhi's position. The logical line of thought is not "my brigade is acting weird and there are certain inconsistencies in events. Therefore, my brigade members must be aliens/time travelers/espers." Still, the secret probably isn't eternally maintable. What's to stop the next Asakura from materializing in front of Haruhi while Nagato is distracted?
I agree. Haruhi would never consider suicide. She'd just subconsciously alter the world to make it better.
cicero225, a note.. when thinking of haruhi-verse, do try and abandon - if only temporarily - any previous concepts you have concerning god (if you can..). considering the disparity of the western concept of god and the nihon concept of kami, generalizing all mention of 'god' as pertaining to 'supreme being' does not allow for cultural differences. also, it is more politically correct (i think) to label haruhi as an embodiment of force majeure, or probably a reality-warper; if i am allowed a bit more leeway, she could be one of either yin or yang (with kyon being the other half).
Agreed, and if we consider the possibility that her power may be inherited from Sasaki, Haruhi's Godhood may work on a Kira-like model. /Deathnote
effectively, kyon restored haruhi's hope for the world; that there still is something interesting for her to experience, and that - though indirectly - kyon will be with her every step of the way. yet, though kyon has been exposed to the beliefs of aliens, time travelers, and espers, that haruhi is a possibility for evolution, warp in the STC, and Kami-sama, he still treats haruhi as haruhi. he treats her as a person, as an equal, possibly even as a woman (only vaguely in the light novels). and haruhi is very much intrigued by this; kyon's archetypal normalcy aside, he was the only one to ever acknowledge her after she changed her view of reality (and eventually, reality itself). that in itself has eased - if not dealt away with - haruhi's melancholy, loneliness, existential anxiety. from then on out, she subconsciously remakes herself into a 'normal' human being - to become more like kyon, and yet retain her uniqueness - as she is somehow has faith in kyon's being by her side, no matter who, or what she may have been, is, and will be.
I've also been entertaining the thought. Wasn't it implied in Snow Mountain Syndrome, afterall, that reality might be normalizing and that Haruhi's powers were weakening?
Interesting theories,keep it up :P
Feel free to join us.
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by Kaisos Erranon »

AuraTwilight wrote: I've also been entertaining the thought. Wasn't it implied in Snow Mountain Syndrome, afterall, that reality might be normalizing and that Haruhi's powers were weakening?
Suggested by Koizumi, yeah. Doesn't mean they actually are.

Besides, if they ever are in danger of vanishing, I'm sure Kyon would do something to jumpstart them again. He's having too much fun.
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by shichinanatsu »

kyon always has the key to jump starting haruhi, being his alter-ego John Smith. however, the novels contain precious little info on haruhi's reaction. case in point (an excerpt from v4):
Spoiler! :
"You weren't alone in sneaking into school that night. You were with another guy who carried Asahina...... A little girl. It was with him that you drew the patterns using white chalk. The patterns were a message for Hikoboshi and Orihime, which roughly meant 'I am here......'"

I wasn't able to complete my sentence.

Haruhi grabbed my collar with her right hand and pulled me over. Being dragged by a terrifying force, I involuntarily fell forward, and knocked my forehead into Haruhi's head, which was hard as a rock.

"Ouch!"

I looked at her in protest, and her eyes also looked back with ferociousness. Her piercing gaze now shot right into my vision. That was a nostalgic gaze, Haruhi's exasperated face was just as nostalgic as well.

The girl looked at me with a perplexed face, her veins were close to bursting as she asked,

"How did you know that!? Who told you!? No, I never told anyone. That time......"

Haruhi suddenly stopped, her expression then changed dramatically as she saw my uniform,

"North High...... Could it be......!? What's your name?"

I was having difficulty breathing as my tie was being grabbed tightly by her. Such a savage girl. No, now's not the time to indulge in memories of Haruhi's amazing power. My name? Should I tell her my real name, which she has never heard of, or should I tell her that stupid nickname that everyone has gotten used to calling me?

No matter which one it was, it would have no effect on this girl before me. I don't think she has ever heard of those two names. In that case, there could only be one name that I can use,

"John Smith,"

Though I tried to say it calmly, it's difficult when I'm being lifted up by the neck. Can't you see I'm having difficulty breathing....... Just when I was thinking of that, the strong pressure before my chest was lifted at once.

"......John Smith?"

Haruhi released my collar and looked stunned as her hands stayed there in mid-air. I've rarely seen her like that. Suzumiya Haruhi looked as though her soul has been taken by the grim reaper, as her mouth was wide open.

"So it's you...... You're that John Smith? The strange high school student...... Who helped me...... In East Junior High......"

Haruhi suddenly tripped. Her long dark hair covered her eyes, and just as she was about to fall, Koizumi grabbed hold of her on time.

The link has now been connected.
admittedly, yuki has faithfully remastered the personalities of the SOS-Dan (and few other people besides), but it is with this particular that i believe she has come short of. granted, haruhi is not a reality-warper in yuki-verse, but her reaction certainly lost a lot of steam compared to original version. kyon is the living assurance to haruhi's existence, he is the one person haruhi feels she can be with, the one who has accepted her fully; her meeting him as john smith should be the stuff of legend. her staying with him would be THE raison d'etre for her, she can devote her life to searching for the extraordinary, knowing someone else appreciates her actions.

and here comes the crossroads. john smith seems to be a most unique individual, yet here is kyon, someone haruhi also gets along with quite nicely. imo, if haruhi and kyon continue on as they are (or even progress in terms of what they have for each other), haruhi will most likely cease being THE reality-warper, as she now has a place in the world, without having to change the world. on the other hand, if kyon admit to haruhi of his also being john smith, suddenly she now has living proof of the extraordinary; though kyon did not tell haruhi he traveled through time and space for and with her, haruhi's imagination will have by then made it so (retrocausality if you will). now haruhi has her raison d'etre again, and no one can stop her now. at this i'm not sure if she will ascend, or something along those lines, but for sure she will be the center of the world, just as she wished for in tanabata (v3)

remember, her wish is two-part: "I am here, come look for me" and "Let the world revolve around me"
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by Kaisos Erranon »

shichinanatsu wrote:kyon always has the key to jump starting haruhi, being his alter-ego John Smith. however, the novels contain precious little info on haruhi's reaction. case in point (an excerpt from v4):
Spoiler! :
"You weren't alone in sneaking into school that night. You were with another guy who carried Asahina...... A little girl. It was with him that you drew the patterns using white chalk. The patterns were a message for Hikoboshi and Orihime, which roughly meant 'I am here......'"

I wasn't able to complete my sentence.

Haruhi grabbed my collar with her right hand and pulled me over. Being dragged by a terrifying force, I involuntarily fell forward, and knocked my forehead into Haruhi's head, which was hard as a rock.

"Ouch!"

I looked at her in protest, and her eyes also looked back with ferociousness. Her piercing gaze now shot right into my vision. That was a nostalgic gaze, Haruhi's exasperated face was just as nostalgic as well.

The girl looked at me with a perplexed face, her veins were close to bursting as she asked,

"How did you know that!? Who told you!? No, I never told anyone. That time......"

Haruhi suddenly stopped, her expression then changed dramatically as she saw my uniform,

"North High...... Could it be......!? What's your name?"

I was having difficulty breathing as my tie was being grabbed tightly by her. Such a savage girl. No, now's not the time to indulge in memories of Haruhi's amazing power. My name? Should I tell her my real name, which she has never heard of, or should I tell her that stupid nickname that everyone has gotten used to calling me?

No matter which one it was, it would have no effect on this girl before me. I don't think she has ever heard of those two names. In that case, there could only be one name that I can use,

"John Smith,"

Though I tried to say it calmly, it's difficult when I'm being lifted up by the neck. Can't you see I'm having difficulty breathing....... Just when I was thinking of that, the strong pressure before my chest was lifted at once.

"......John Smith?"

Haruhi released my collar and looked stunned as her hands stayed there in mid-air. I've rarely seen her like that. Suzumiya Haruhi looked as though her soul has been taken by the grim reaper, as her mouth was wide open.

"So it's you...... You're that John Smith? The strange high school student...... Who helped me...... In East Junior High......"

Haruhi suddenly tripped. Her long dark hair covered her eyes, and just as she was about to fall, Koizumi grabbed hold of her on time.

The link has now been connected.
admittedly, yuki has faithfully remastered the personalities of the SOS-Dan (and few other people besides), but it is with this particular that i believe she has come short of. granted, haruhi is not a reality-warper in yuki-verse, but her reaction certainly lost a lot of steam compared to original version. kyon is the living assurance to haruhi's existence, he is the one person haruhi feels she can be with, the one who has accepted her fully; her meeting him as john smith should be the stuff of legend. her staying with him would be THE raison d'etre for her, she can devote her life to searching for the extraordinary, knowing someone else appreciates her actions.

and here comes the crossroads. john smith seems to be a most unique individual, yet here is kyon, someone haruhi also gets along with quite nicely. imo, if haruhi and kyon continue on as they are (or even progress in terms of what they have for each other), haruhi will most likely cease being THE reality-warper, as she now has a place in the world, without having to change the world. on the other hand, if kyon admit to haruhi of his also being john smith, suddenly she now has living proof of the extraordinary; though kyon did not tell haruhi he traveled through time and space for and with her, haruhi's imagination will have by then made it so (retrocausality if you will). now haruhi has her raison d'etre again, and no one can stop her now. at this i'm not sure if she will ascend, or something along those lines, but for sure she will be the center of the world, just as she wished for in tanabata (v3)

remember, her wish is two-part: "I am here, come look for me" and "Let the world revolve around me"
Actually, her wish on that particular Tanabata was just the "I AM HERE" thing.

(Something a lot of people forget is that Tanabata was NOT the day when she got her powers, it happened before then. Time travelers can't go past that point. So it was probably some time before.)

Her wishes on the most recent Tanabata were "let the world revolve around me" and "I wish the Earth would rotate backwards".
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by fiendmaw »

Interesting theories,keep it up :P
Feel free to join us.
I would,but the story/characters/etc. have been twisted and turned in so many ways,I can't post anything in fear of posting someone else's idea,even though that's not the intention. :?
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by shichinanatsu »

by all means, post away.. even though it might be posted by someone else already, you reposting it (coincidentally or otherwise) might give us here a new perspective of whatever has been said.
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by fiendmaw »

shichinanatsu wrote:kyon always has the key to jump starting haruhi, being his alter-ego John Smith. however, the novels contain precious little info on haruhi's reaction. case in point (an excerpt from v4):
Spoiler! :
"You weren't alone in sneaking into school that night. You were with another guy who carried Asahina...... A little girl. It was with him that you drew the patterns using white chalk. The patterns were a message for Hikoboshi and Orihime, which roughly meant 'I am here......'"

I wasn't able to complete my sentence.

Haruhi grabbed my collar with her right hand and pulled me over. Being dragged by a terrifying force, I involuntarily fell forward, and knocked my forehead into Haruhi's head, which was hard as a rock.

"Ouch!"

I looked at her in protest, and her eyes also looked back with ferociousness. Her piercing gaze now shot right into my vision. That was a nostalgic gaze, Haruhi's exasperated face was just as nostalgic as well.

The girl looked at me with a perplexed face, her veins were close to bursting as she asked,

"How did you know that!? Who told you!? No, I never told anyone. That time......"

Haruhi suddenly stopped, her expression then changed dramatically as she saw my uniform,

"North High...... Could it be......!? What's your name?"

I was having difficulty breathing as my tie was being grabbed tightly by her. Such a savage girl. No, now's not the time to indulge in memories of Haruhi's amazing power. My name? Should I tell her my real name, which she has never heard of, or should I tell her that stupid nickname that everyone has gotten used to calling me?

No matter which one it was, it would have no effect on this girl before me. I don't think she has ever heard of those two names. In that case, there could only be one name that I can use,

"John Smith,"

Though I tried to say it calmly, it's difficult when I'm being lifted up by the neck. Can't you see I'm having difficulty breathing....... Just when I was thinking of that, the strong pressure before my chest was lifted at once.

"......John Smith?"

Haruhi released my collar and looked stunned as her hands stayed there in mid-air. I've rarely seen her like that. Suzumiya Haruhi looked as though her soul has been taken by the grim reaper, as her mouth was wide open.

"So it's you...... You're that John Smith? The strange high school student...... Who helped me...... In East Junior High......"

Haruhi suddenly tripped. Her long dark hair covered her eyes, and just as she was about to fall, Koizumi grabbed hold of her on time.

The link has now been connected.
admittedly, yuki has faithfully remastered the personalities of the SOS-Dan (and few other people besides), but it is with this particular that i believe she has come short of. granted, haruhi is not a reality-warper in yuki-verse, but her reaction certainly lost a lot of steam compared to original version. kyon is the living assurance to haruhi's existence, he is the one person haruhi feels she can be with, the one who has accepted her fully; her meeting him as john smith should be the stuff of legend. her staying with him would be THE raison d'etre for her, she can devote her life to searching for the extraordinary, knowing someone else appreciates her actions.

and here comes the crossroads. john smith seems to be a most unique individual, yet here is kyon, someone haruhi also gets along with quite nicely. imo, if haruhi and kyon continue on as they are (or even progress in terms of what they have for each other), haruhi will most likely cease being THE reality-warper, as she now has a place in the world, without having to change the world. on the other hand, if kyon admit to haruhi of his also being john smith, suddenly she now has living proof of the extraordinary; though kyon did not tell haruhi he traveled through time and space for and with her, haruhi's imagination will have by then made it so (retrocausality if you will). now haruhi has her raison d'etre again, and no one can stop her now. at this i'm not sure if she will ascend, or something along those lines, but for sure she will be the center of the world, just as she wished for in tanabata (v3)

remember, her wish is two-part: "I am here, come look for me" and "Let the world revolve around me"
I am convinced that the meeting between Haruhi and John Smith from v4 is different than how the one in the Haruhiverse would be.
The one thing that supports this idea is Haruhi NOT joining North High.Even though the 3-years-ago events were the same,she didn't join North High,she clearly lost most of her ambition to find aliens and whatnot,and coincidentally her interest in 'John Smith' which she is,more or less,in love with.In v4 she clearly gave up on the idea of meeting or searching for information about John Smith,and became more normal,maybe Yuki is at fault,but her personality is untouched,and such the only thing legendary about 'Haruhi meeting John Smith' lies in the Haruhiverse,and it's maybe switch to the main plot,about Haruhi and the incident,or Haruhi receiving god-like powers.
cicero225
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by cicero225 »

fiendmaw wrote:I am convinced that the meeting between Haruhi and John Smith from v4 is different than how the one in the Haruhiverse would be.
The one thing that supports this idea is Haruhi NOT joining North High.Even though the 3-years-ago events were the same,she didn't join North High,she clearly lost most of her ambition to find aliens and whatnot,and coincidentally her interest in 'John Smith' which she is,more or less,in love with.In v4 she clearly gave up on the idea of meeting or searching for information about John Smith,and became more normal,maybe Yuki is at fault,but her personality is untouched,and such the only thing legendary about 'Haruhi meeting John Smith' lies in the Haruhiverse,and it's maybe switch to the main plot,about Haruhi and the incident,or Haruhi receiving god-like powers.
I haven't heard this one before, so no worries there. :P
Technically that universe didn't exist outside of those 3 days, since all Yuki did is change the universe, then rewrite their memories. Of course, those memories would have to be self-consistent, so the underlying point about Haruhi's reaction maybe being different is still there. It does seem reasonable to think that their meeting was different, but this wouldn't cause all the changes (the girls' school becoming coed) so yuki probably changed more than one thing. I think at some point in v4 it's mentioned that yuki's manipulations didn't extend all the way back 3 years into the past, but I can't find that right now, so I'm not going to rely on that.
Of course, it's possible that that school becoming coed caused haruhi to go to that school instead. Maybe she balanced it out by reasoning that it's a better school, but close enough to north high...I don't see haruhi doing that though.
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Kaisos Erranon
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Re: My theory about the rise of Sasaki

Post by Kaisos Erranon »

cicero225 wrote:
fiendmaw wrote:I am convinced that the meeting between Haruhi and John Smith from v4 is different than how the one in the Haruhiverse would be.
The one thing that supports this idea is Haruhi NOT joining North High.Even though the 3-years-ago events were the same,she didn't join North High,she clearly lost most of her ambition to find aliens and whatnot,and coincidentally her interest in 'John Smith' which she is,more or less,in love with.In v4 she clearly gave up on the idea of meeting or searching for information about John Smith,and became more normal,maybe Yuki is at fault,but her personality is untouched,and such the only thing legendary about 'Haruhi meeting John Smith' lies in the Haruhiverse,and it's maybe switch to the main plot,about Haruhi and the incident,or Haruhi receiving god-like powers.
I haven't heard this one before, so no worries there. :P
Technically that universe didn't exist outside of those 3 days, since all Yuki did is change the universe, then rewrite their memories. Of course, those memories would have to be self-consistent, so the underlying point about Haruhi's reaction maybe being different is still there. It does seem reasonable to think that their meeting was different, but this wouldn't cause all the changes (the girls' school becoming coed) so yuki probably changed more than one thing. I think at some point in v4 it's mentioned that yuki's manipulations didn't extend all the way back 3 years into the past, but I can't find that right now, so I'm not going to rely on that.
Of course, it's possible that that school becoming coed caused haruhi to go to that school instead. Maybe she balanced it out by reasoning that it's a better school, but close enough to north high...I don't see haruhi doing that though.
The changes extended back to one year, though she did erase all the supernatural stuff (except for maybe Asakura... didn't she jump off the roof at the end to defend Yuki?).

Similarly, their memories were all faked. Haruhi's attendance at Kouyouen was simply a way for her to be gotten out of the way yet close enough for Kyon to activate the Escape Program.
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