Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.0

Discuss all topics related to the existing rules and policies

Moderators: thelastguardian, Fringe Security Bureau, Senior Editors, Senior Translators, Alt. Language Translator/Editor, Executive Council, Project Translators, Project Editors

Vote to officially ratify the New Project Startup Guidelines (Wiki) and approve from draft status

Yes - I read the proposed rules and vote to officially approve them
14
82%
No - There is something seriously wrong. I object.
2
12%
Wait - Please make some minor corrections first. I'll change my vote after it's satisfactory.
1
6%
 
Total votes: 17

User avatar
cloudii
Project Translator
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:30 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: awkward buttface
Contact:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by cloudii »

cloud wrote: 0). Should the Wiki Project Creator ensure there's a forum feedback thread?
  1. Yes (Mandatory). If a forum feedback thread doesn't exist, they're required to create one. --- (7) Misogi, Chancs, Cloudii, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Darklor
  2. No (Optional). However, recommend that they create one. --- (1) Vallor
  3. No. Don't give any mention to forum feedback threads in Project Startup Guidelines. --- (0)
1). About the Future Project Suggestion Poll in these rules...
  1. Should be kept in the startup rules and MANDATORY --- (1) Chancs
  2. Should be kept in the startup rules and OPTIONAL (current) --- (0)
  3. Should be removed from the startup rules (FPS will still exist on forums, though). --- (7) Cloudii, Misogi, Victorrama, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, Darklor
2). Should there only be one feedback-related forum thread for a project, at a time? If yes, vote on the best way to maintain this.
  1. Yes, lock old threads --- (1) Vallor
  2. Yes, have only one thread and keep moving it (merge posts for any extra threads accidentally created)--- (7) Cloudii, Misogi, Chancs, Victorrama, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678
  3. No. Keep the feedback threads separate and keep them unlocked. --- (0)
3). If you said "B" to Question 2, what should we do about the poll questions?
4). What should be the minimum requirements for full project approval? You must give a concrete number of chapters/pages/percentage.
  1. 1 volume OR 1 chapter +activity --- (1) Darklor
  2. 1 volume ONLY --- (5) Victorrama, Cloudii, Chancs, Cthaeh, Kira082
  3. 1 volume (approximately), but lower in special circumstances --- (4) Misogi, Devenk83, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor
5). If the ONE VOLUME requirement gets voted in, what should we do about current series with less than one volume on the sidebar?.
  1. Keep them on as Full Projects --- (0)
  2. Re-categorize all of them as Teasers (remove from sidebar) --- (3) Devenk83, Vallor, Cloudii
  3. Re-categorize only the inactive ones, but leave the active ones on the sidebar (give active TL a choice) ---- (1) Yoyoyo5678
  4. Re-categorize their category tags, but keep them on the sidebar --- (1) Darklor
^Updated. Changed my own vote for #5.
Darklor wrote:2)D - with that I mean it could be appropriate to have two or even separate threads, depending on the activity, since youre talking about a full project status after one completed volume. Btw. what would you do with a project with more than on translator working on different volumes (which would have together the amount of a full volume translated, but are in iteslf incomplete)? I am talking about a thread for the readers to discuss the series (and maybe just for "thank you"s or feedback like that) and a thread for translators and editors to discuss and define the used terms in the translation or just the translation.
I didn't add your comment to the list of votes, because I don't think any of us necessarily mean there should only be one thread for the project. For example, there could be extra threads (like in DAL or SAO) for the series.

We're only debating whether there should only be one reader-feedback thread. For example, the future project suggestion thread, Teaser Feedback Thread, and Auxiliary Brigade Thread all function as a reader-feedback thread. We're proposing to consolidate reader feedback to one location. Meanwhile, if a translator/editor decided to make a thread for PDFs or terminology on the forums, they'd be free to. It just shouldn't be another feedback thread.
Darklor wrote:5) Re-Categorize them, but let them easy be found - with that I mean dont hide them in the teasers - as Bestandsschutz= provision made to safeguard existing standards
I have no idea where you want to put them, then? ...if you remove them from the sidebar...

IMO, it's really easy to find things in teasers. There's a direct link to the English teasers on the sidebar, and I know a lot of readers check that section regularly. I don't know if there's a more visible place than the teaser category.

Notice: Changed rules to reflect current majority opinions. The debate about the 1-volume rule hasn't flipped sides of majority yet. I'm not changing that rule until it looks like there's a clear majority that favors one side.
Twitter: @cloudiirain | BT Userpage | OreShura Translator | Biblia Editor (@HereticLNT) | Clockwork Editor (@HereticLNT)
KuroiHikari
Fish Miner
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:01 am
Favourite Light Novel:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by KuroiHikari »

4). What should be the minimum requirements for full project approval? You must give a concrete number of chapters/pages/percentage.
5). If the ONE VOLUME requirement gets voted in, what should we do about current series with less than one volume on the sidebar?.
The sidebar needs to go. If not, over time, whatever requirement will be met by more projects and the sidebar will grow this long one day.
In fact, full projects need to be placed in a page (that only supervisors and admins can edit) and maybe placed on the main page or something. Category tags is something that can be abused and is very difficult to notice.
User avatar
cautr
Tsuruya Gigglenator
Posts: 740
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:41 am
Favourite Light Novel:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by cautr »

KuroiHikari wrote:
4). What should be the minimum requirements for full project approval? You must give a concrete number of chapters/pages/percentage.
5). If the ONE VOLUME requirement gets voted in, what should we do about current series with less than one volume on the sidebar?.
The sidebar needs to go. If not, over time, whatever requirement will be met by more projects and the sidebar will grow this long one day.
In fact, full projects need to be placed in a page (that only supervisors and admins can edit) and maybe placed on the main page or something. Category tags is something that can be abused and is very difficult to notice.
Oh my, someone shares my opinion, what's happening?
Translator at guhehe.TRANSLATIONS

"Life's a tale, told by an idiot." -Shakespeare
victorrama
馬鹿月の衛星保障機構 [F.S.B]
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:42 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Too many to list, just ask
Location: NOT under your bed. Believe me.
Contact:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by victorrama »

Welp the discussion not over yet...
Update on my answer :
0.A

About the sidebar thingy. I think it's not on this page.
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index ... Guidelines

So maybe skip it for now but if if you want it that makes my answer to 5 B though.
Spoiler! :
For the side bar issue..its there to help people find the LN faster right? can we make it so that it's collapsing style like we do now but instead of just light novel we use category to group em. Teaser , pending , active. or if we do remove the LNs from sidebar i think it should have that 3 in the sidebar instead. otherwise it'll be a pain to navigate the site to find an LN. though i myself don't mind long sidebar.
Just a passing by translator, editor, typesetter, writer, meeper.

Translating : The Maso's TL project
and also other series.

“The mind, at times, takes masochistic delight in suffering.” ― Saurbh Katyal, Seduced by Murder
User avatar
Mystes
Heaven's Blade Successor
Posts: 15932
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:54 am
Favourite Light Novel:
Contact:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by Mystes »

Same as chancs for 1st part
0) A
1) A
2) B
3) Polls can be edited/changed. When introducing a series --- options of 'wish to see it translated' and such; when translation begins --- options of 'how do u find reading'
4B, 5C.
Kira0802

#campione at rizon for some #campione discussions~~ And other stuffs.
User avatar
cloudii
Project Translator
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:30 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: awkward buttface
Contact:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by cloudii »

cloud wrote: 0). Should the Wiki Project Creator ensure there's a forum feedback thread?
  1. Yes (Mandatory). If a forum feedback thread doesn't exist, they're required to create one. --- (9) Misogi, Chancs, Cloudii, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Darklor, Kira082, Victorrama
  2. No (Optional). However, recommend that they create one. --- (1) Vallor
  3. No. Don't give any mention to forum feedback threads in Project Startup Guidelines. --- (0)
1). About the Future Project Suggestion Poll in these rules...
  1. Should be kept in the startup rules and MANDATORY --- (2) Chancs, Kira082
  2. Should be kept in the startup rules and OPTIONAL (current) --- (0)
  3. Should be removed from the startup rules (FPS will still exist on forums, though). --- (7) Cloudii, Misogi, Victorrama, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, Darklor
2). Should there only be one feedback-related forum thread for a project, at a time? If yes, vote on the best way to maintain this.
  1. Yes, lock old threads --- (1) Vallor
  2. Yes, have only one thread and keep moving it (merge posts for any extra threads accidentally created)--- (8) Cloudii, Misogi, Chancs, Victorrama, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Kira082
  3. No. Keep the feedback threads separate and keep them unlocked. --- (0)
3). If you said "B" to Question 2, what should we do about the poll questions?
4). What should be the minimum requirements for full project approval? You must give a concrete number of chapters/pages/percentage.
  1. 1 volume OR 1 chapter +activity --- (1) Darklor
  2. 1 volume ONLY --- (5) Victorrama, Cloudii, Chancs, Cthaeh, Kira082
  3. 1 volume (approximately), but lower in special circumstances --- (4) Misogi, Devenk83, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor
5). If the ONE VOLUME requirement gets voted in, what should we do about current series with less than one volume on the sidebar?.
  1. Keep them on as Full Projects --- (0)
  2. Re-categorize all of them as Teasers (remove from sidebar) --- (4) Devenk83, Vallor, Cloudii, Victorrama
  3. Re-categorize only the inactive ones, but leave the active ones on the sidebar (give active TL a choice) ---- (2) Yoyoyo5678, Kira082
  4. Re-categorize their category tags, but keep them on the sidebar --- (1) Darklor
^Updated.

With regards to all the comments about the sidebar. Unfortunately, that's totally out of my jurisdiction. Talk to DarkoNeko to make something happen (Cautr's part of it too, isn't he?).

I've intentionally left all mentions of mechanics out of the rules. These rules specify how a member can get a project approved to full project status, but it's the Administration's job to figure out what to do with it, once they get a request for full project approval from the translator. ;D

TBH, I've technically overstepped my boundaries by asking questions #2 and #5. My fault. Don't take them seriously, because I have no authority (or even user privileges) to do anything about them. All Administrative protocol is outside of my control, and outside of these rules. Of course, I have a lot of opinions, but I won't mention them because it's not the topic of this thread. If you want the sidebar changed or removed (or a better way to protect the Full Project category), talk to DarkoNeko. That's his domain.

----------

I wanted to mention that I rewrote some portions of the rules to reflect the current majority opinion. Please read and give feedback?

Just to repeat: I'm not changing anything on the Wiki page unless the votes show a majority on a particular topic. If you disagree on a certain something, don't complain to me. I can't do anything about it. Get your friends to vote. ;D

Furthermore, can I ask the two people who voted "Object" and the one person who voted "Wait" to name themselves and state why?
Twitter: @cloudiirain | BT Userpage | OreShura Translator | Biblia Editor (@HereticLNT) | Clockwork Editor (@HereticLNT)
User avatar
chancs
Project Editor
Posts: 687
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:07 am
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: under the starry night
Contact:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by chancs »

cloud wrote: 4). What should be the minimum requirements for full project approval? You must give a concrete number of chapters/pages/percentage.
  1. 1 volume OR 1 chapter +activity --- (1) Darklor
  2. 1 volume ONLY --- (5) Victorrama, Cloudii, Chancs, Cthaeh, Kira082
  3. 1 volume (approximately), but lower in special circumstances --- (4) Misogi, Devenk83, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor
5). If the ONE VOLUME requirement gets voted in, what should we do about current series with less than one volume on the sidebar?.
  1. Keep them on as Full Projects --- (0)
  2. Re-categorize all of them as Teasers (remove from sidebar) --- (4) Devenk83, Vallor, Cloudii, Victorrama
  3. Re-categorize only the inactive ones, but leave the active ones on the sidebar (give active TL a choice) ---- (2) Yoyoyo5678, Kira082
  4. Re-categorize their category tags, but keep them on the sidebar --- (1) Darklor
4) B
5) C --- why to demoralize(?) when the project is already approved (and also being active). TL is not easy.... With 'give a chance'.

Better to re-write the 'give a choice' to 'give a chance' in the poll. You can't ask the TLr whether he/she wants the project to remain on the sidebar or in the 'Teasers' category :D :lol:
If you want the sidebar changed or removed (or a better way to protect the Full Project category), talk to DarkoNeko. That's his domain.
Though I agree with the views of modifying the side bar and changing how the novels index is shown, I don't think this is the right thread to talk about, and I don't have any suggestions right now to talk about. (off topic off topic)
cloud wrote: Furthermore, can I ask the two people who voted "Object" and the one person who voted "Wait" to name themselves and state why?
The 'wait' guy would be me. My vote to wait was because of the discussions of feedback threads. Since this has now been put to vote, the final decision will be made on the general view, and so I am changing my vote to overall 'yes'.

Edit: *scratches head* now how to change the vote? The thread is locked. Anyways, the 'wait' guy is now a 'yes' guy
User avatar
bicube
Editor-in-Assistance
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 9:06 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: California

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by bicube »

0) A
1) C
2) B
By requiring one active thread in the forums, I think it'll make starting a project easier for the translator and for readers to find the thread.

3) If it becomes a full project, lock the poll and have feedback as forum posts only. Resetting and changing the poll options is fine too.
4) B: Making an explicit requirement that a volume must be completed before it's considered a full project should help translators know what's needed to get to the sidebar. Also, readers who open a link from the sidebar can expect that there will be at least one full volume completed.
5) C: Even though I said that above, I think you should tell the active translator the situation and give them time to complete one volume before moving their project away from the bar. The translator has worked to get their project onto the sidebar, and to suddenly take that away from them will be a bad move. At the worst, they can lose motivation and not work on the series anymore. Maybe give them three months to finish a volume before changes are made? We can decide on the time period if we decide to choose this route.
Stop spamming! Stay on topic!

>_>
User avatar
cloudii
Project Translator
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:30 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: awkward buttface
Contact:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by cloudii »

cloud wrote: 0). Should the Wiki Project Creator ensure there's a forum feedback thread?
  1. Yes (Mandatory). If a forum feedback thread doesn't exist, they're required to create one. --- (10) Misogi, Chancs, Cloudii, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Darklor, Kira082, Victorrama, Bicube
  2. No (Optional). However, recommend that they create one. --- (1) Vallor
  3. No. Don't give any mention to forum feedback threads in Project Startup Guidelines. --- (0)
1). About the Future Project Suggestion Poll in these rules...
  1. Should be kept in the startup rules and MANDATORY --- (2) Chancs, Kira082
  2. Should be kept in the startup rules and OPTIONAL (current) --- (0)
  3. Should be removed from the startup rules (FPS will still exist on forums, though). --- (8) Cloudii, Misogi, Victorrama, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, Darklor, Bicube
2). Should there only be one feedback-related forum thread for a project, at a time? If yes, vote on the best way to maintain this.
  1. Yes, lock old threads --- (1) Vallor
  2. Yes, have only one thread and keep moving it (merge posts for any extra threads accidentally created)--- (9) Cloudii, Misogi, Chancs, Victorrama, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Kira082, Bicube
  3. No. Keep the feedback threads separate and keep them unlocked. --- (0)
3). If you said "B" to Question 2, what should we do about the poll questions?
4). What should be the minimum requirements for full project approval? You must give a concrete number of chapters/pages/percentage.
  1. 1 volume OR 1 chapter +activity --- (1) Darklor
  2. 1 volume ONLY --- (6) Victorrama, Cloudii, Chancs, Cthaeh, Kira082, Bicube
  3. 1 volume (approximately), but lower in special circumstances --- (4) Misogi, Devenk83, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor
5). If the ONE VOLUME requirement gets voted in, what should we do about current series with less than one volume on the sidebar?.
  1. Keep them on as Full Projects --- (0)
  2. Re-categorize all of them as Teasers (remove from sidebar) --- (3) Devenk83, Vallor, Victorrama
  3. Re-categorize only the inactive ones, but leave the active ones on the sidebar (give active TL a chance) ---- (5) Yoyoyo5678, Kira082, Bicube, Chancs, Cloudii
  4. Re-categorize their category tags, but keep them on the sidebar --- (1) Darklor
^Updated. Chancs and Bicube's points were enough to convince me to change my vote (again) on #5. I changed my vote to C.

The only main issue we disagree with right now is point #4. How about I propose a compromise?

Image

Anyone willing to go for the compromise to bring the split votes together? If you don't like the wording, feel free to suggest an alternative.

For example:
In special circumstances, a new project may be approved to Full Project Status early. Please contact a Supervisor for details.
Twitter: @cloudiirain | BT Userpage | OreShura Translator | Biblia Editor (@HereticLNT) | Clockwork Editor (@HereticLNT)
rydenius
Project Translator
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:31 pm
Favourite Light Novel:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by rydenius »

Since I'm new here, I'm not sure I have the right to comment but I don't see any real problems with the new rules. I do have some new series and some single volume novels that I'm planning to work on in the future, but that's probably years away so...

In any case, about the voting:
0.) A -- The feedback threads should be mandatory. There are "talk" pages in the wiki, but as a reader I never felt comfortable posting there, and the feedback thread is a good way to get a feel for a project's activity level as it provides an easy way for readers, editors, and translators to coordinate efforts. It should also be mandatory for the feedback thread to be linked from the project page as well. (as stated in the current draft). I don't think the future project suggestion thread needs to be linked from the project page and I'd be against merging the future project thread with the feedback thread, since the discussions would be different and it would clutter the feedback thread -- Better would to require a link in the first post of the new feedback thread to the old relevant threads.

Also the required thread title formatting should be indicated, such as "TITLE -- Project Feedback Thread" or something like that. (If it'd be preferred to be just the series title, then that should be noted.)

1.) C -- See #3

2.) A/B -- it's much easier to just drop by and check the a single thread linked from the project page. (That doesn't really promote forum community though.) Regarding merging, at first I thought that this might be a pain for moderators/admins, but there's only 2 pages of threads in the Auxiliary Brigades section... which is where I'm assuming the feedback thread should go (the section should be noted on the rules).

If an admin isn't around, moderators could lock the thread and add a link to the official thread. Thinking of cases were additional threads might be useful, if discussion is active enough to warrant multiple threads, wouldn't the project get moved to it's own forum section? In which case it'd be nice if the first post in the official feedback thread contained links to other related threads (but probably not something that needs to be noted as part of "New Project" rules).

Note, I'm not voting for the merging of the feedback and Future suggestion threads. Just "accidental" new threads. It might also be good if the future suggestion thread should be locked after the project is started and an official feedback thread is started...

That said, I can't really say that I'm volunteering for the extra work... :wink:

3.) Shouldn't poll questions be something more for the General->Manga & Novel section of the forum? If so, wouldn't it make more sense to move those there or in forum sections dedicated to the particular novel? (hmm... though if it's polls related to managing the project that could be strange place to put them. But I think these problems come back to a novel/project not having it's own section for things.)

4). C -- I think it might be useful to allow exceptions for works where each chapter is a self-contained story, and/or where the work is published serially (cell phone novel for example) and is (relatively) up to date, though if there's not much to read it wouldn't be such a great idea to clutter the main project section with small projects. This could also be an issue when a particular author tends to produce short stories or when the work being translated is a compilation of short stories. Though I suppose in those cases the project could be listed as the author's name?

Maybe simplest would be to say:

At least one volume (or equivalent) of the series must be fully translated.

That would leave some room for flexibility and the "(or equivalent)" could be linked to a page or pop-up that details currently accepted equivalents or could be left intentionally vague.

In general though I agree with the one volume requirement, and there are also advantages to the clarity of stating it as simply as "one volume", so I'm also fine with the current wording.

Another possible concern might be that single novels would seem unwelcome as projects? What would be their status? Since completing the volume would make them no longer active projects. (Though that would make project activity a moot point.)

5). C/D -- I think that with a popular and active project that is updating regularly, it would be bad to discourage the active translators and editors, but if the Teaser projects section in the side bar is moved to just above the "Light Novels" section, made a collapsed list, and renamed to "New Projects", that would make it stand out more and would lessen the impact for projects that are moved from the full active/completed project section of the side bar.
User avatar
SoulTranslator
馬鹿月の衛星保障機構 [F.S.B]
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:14 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: «Ocean Turtle»

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by SoulTranslator »

Updating my vote:

4) C
5) C
Time is illusion, eternity is now...

----

From the Dark Legion, Nocturne Sky Translation
Cthaeh
Yuki-Nagator
Posts: 647
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:54 pm
Favourite Light Novel:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by Cthaeh »

0) B (optional)

it should be optional so that new BT translators do not have to deal with the forum when they are new (or if they don't want to). Besides, someone else can create a thread. I would have no problems with a thread being a requirement for a full project, since someone will have created a thread by the time that happens.

1) C (remove)

Again, no reason to make it more complicated for new BT translators. A forum mod can add a poll later if people still think they're useful (as an editor/reader, I have no use for the polls).

2) B

3) no opinion (again, I don't care about polls)

4) B (my vote is already counted in the list)

I'm hesitant to have a clause allowing exceptions special circumstances, though I wouldn't mind them in truly unique situations. I also don't think one volume worth of content spread across multiple volumes should qualify (I don't want "special circumstances" to be able to be interpreted like that).

5) B (or C is fine too, whatever keeps things moving forward)

I updated my post/list to show the projects with less than one volume that have an active TL. There are only 2 BT projects I found that fit that description, and 3 more hosted (ND) projects. So the difference between 5B and 5C is not really that big.

Note: I have been keeping that list updated (in the hopes that the admins would be more likely to do it if it was easier for them), so that can be used a reference if someone acts on it.
User avatar
cloudii
Project Translator
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:30 pm
Favourite Light Novel: Ahouka!
Location: awkward buttface
Contact:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by cloudii »

cloud wrote: 0). Should the Wiki Project Creator ensure there's a forum feedback thread?
  1. Yes (Mandatory). If a forum feedback thread doesn't exist, they're required to create one. --- (11) Misogi, Chancs, Cloudii, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Darklor, Kira082, Victorrama, Bicube, Rydenius
  2. No (Optional). However, recommend that they create one. --- (2) Vallor, Cthaeh
  3. No. Don't give any mention to forum feedback threads in Project Startup Guidelines. --- (0)
1). About the Future Project Suggestion Poll in these rules...
  1. Should be kept in the startup rules and MANDATORY --- (2) Chancs, Kira082
  2. Should be kept in the startup rules and OPTIONAL (current) --- (0)
  3. Should be removed from the startup rules (FPS will still exist on forums, though). --- (10) Cloudii, Misogi, Victorrama, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, Darklor, Bicube, Cthaeh, Rydenius
2). Should there only be one feedback-related forum thread for a project, at a time? If yes, vote on the best way to maintain this.
  1. Yes, lock old threads --- (1.5) Vallor, Rydenius/2
  2. Yes, have only one thread and keep moving it (merge posts for any extra threads accidentally created)--- (10.5) Cloudii, Misogi, Chancs, Victorrama, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Kira082, Bicube, Cthaeh, Rydenius/2
  3. No. Keep the feedback threads separate and keep them unlocked. --- (0)
3). If you said "B" to Question 2, what should we do about the poll questions?
4). What should be the minimum requirements for full project approval? You must give a concrete number of chapters/pages/percentage.
  1. 1 volume OR 1 chapter +activity --- (1) Darklor
  2. 1 volume ONLY --- (6) Victorrama, Cloudii, Chancs, Cthaeh, Kira082, Bicube
  3. 1 volume (approximately), but lower in special circumstances --- (6) Misogi, Devenk83, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, SoulTranslator, Rydenius
5). If the ONE VOLUME requirement gets voted in, what should we do about current series with less than one volume on the sidebar?.
  1. Keep them on as Full Projects --- (0)
  2. Re-categorize all of them as Teasers (remove from sidebar) --- (4) Devenk83, Vallor, Victorrama, Cthaeh
  3. Re-categorize only the inactive ones, but leave the active ones on the sidebar (give active TL a chance) ---- (6.5) Yoyoyo5678, Kira082, Bicube, Chancs, Cloudii, SoulTranslator, Rydenius/2
  4. Re-categorize their category tags, but keep them on the sidebar --- (1.5) Darklor, Rydenius/2
^Updated.

@Rydenius. Of course you're welcome here. <3 Thanks for participating. For your comment in point 2 (I'm assuming you're talking about when the Teaser Feedback Thread gets moved to Aux Brigades), I didn't include it on the rules because it should be a part of Supervisor protocol (and hence, Administrative technicalities) when they approve a project. At that stage, there will always be a TFT, so the Supervisor should always check for it.
On the other hand, there's not always a FPS thread when a new teaser is made, so it'd waste the supervisor's time half the time to go looking for the thread if it doesn't exist. That's why I mentioned it like that....... but if anyone has any better ideas, that'd be great. xD I'd prefer for there to be as little text on the rules as possible.

-------

Still curious about the people who voted "object" (there are no waits right now b/c chancs is actually a yes).

I know Darklor is one, and I think it was because he didn't want to raise requirements for full projects / he wanted teasers to be distinguished from full projects... but... it doesn't like there's much we can do since the votes are so polarized against his...

Have no idea who was the second one. xD If I had a guess, it'd be Kira, but who knows? Does he/she still have an issue with the state the rules are now?
Twitter: @cloudiirain | BT Userpage | OreShura Translator | Biblia Editor (@HereticLNT) | Clockwork Editor (@HereticLNT)
User avatar
Darklor
Project Editor
Posts: 3666
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:56 am
Favourite Light Novel:
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by Darklor »

cloud wrote: 2). Should there only be one feedback-related forum thread for a project, at a time? If yes, vote on the best way to maintain this.[/color]
  1. Yes, lock old threads --- (1) Vallor
  2. Yes, have only one thread and keep moving it (merge posts for any extra threads accidentally created)--- (7)

    -------------------

    I didn't add your comment to the list of votes, because I don't think any of us necessarily mean there should only be one thread for the project. For example, there could be extra threads (like in DAL or SAO) for the series.

    We're only debating whether there should only be one reader-feedback thread. For example, the future project suggestion thread, Teaser Feedback Thread, and Auxiliary Brigade Thread all function as a reader-feedback thread. We're proposing to consolidate reader feedback to one location. Meanwhile, if a translator/editor decided to make a thread for PDFs or terminology on the forums, they'd be free to. It just shouldn't be another feedback thread.
Hm, its just for me that the wording of this choice would mean for me that there should be only one thread as long as they are teasers... - if that isnt the case I would take that choice too...as long as the project poll would reflect the project status.
cloud wrote: I have no idea where you want to put them, then? ...if you remove them from the sidebar...

IMO, it's really easy to find things in teasers. There's a direct link to the English teasers on the sidebar, and I know a lot of readers check that section regularly. I don't know if there's a more visible place than the teaser category.
Is it really like that? At my time nearly no one did visit the teasers...

And what I meant is: give those already in the sidebar the teaser tag and for the hopeful readers a warning on the project page that those projects are now considered teasers under the new full project rules.

[/quote]
Please don't mind my bad english since I'm german.

Darklor

Out of the dark, into the dark.
rydenius
Project Translator
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:31 pm
Favourite Light Novel:

Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by rydenius »

Hi Cloud and thanks :)

About #2, I was confused about the TFs, no idea that forum section even existed... so the forum section where the teaser feedback thread would be created (Board index ‹ Translation Projects ‹ Future Project Suggestions ‹ Teaser Feedback) should definitely be listed or linked on the guidelines. Heck, I wasn't even really sure what a "teaser" was until I started reading through latest rule change discussion (which is why I was suggesting renaming it "New Projects"). Moving the Teaser Feadback thread location to say "Board index ‹ Translation Projects ‹ New Projects" would certainly give it a lot more publicity, but would probably break a whole lot of pages... (OK, I'm blind... I just went back and sure enough there is a link specified to the relevant forum section: "If no thread exists on the forum yet, create a new thread here," -- for some reason my mind was expecting that this line "Provide a link to a corresponding Feedback Thread in the Forums." would have the link at: "Forums".)

So my vote would be to require the creation of a Teaser Feedback thread (in a specified forum section) and require it to have link back to original Future Project Suggestion thread in the first post (this would put the burden of hunting down the FPS thread on the person creating the new project so that the admins wouldn't have to hunt it down), and then lock Future Project Suggestion thread once the Teaser Feedback thread is created (locked FPS thread should probably also have a link to the new Teaser Feedback thread added at the end). So guess that makes me #2 A for FPS threads, but accidental extra TF threads should certainly be merged so as to not clutter up the forum (#2 B). And I certainly agree about moving the existing Teaser Feedback thread to Auxiliary Brigades (or it's own forum section) on promotion to full project.

I'm clearly in the (extreme) minority here so probably the simplest changes I'd recommend would be to change this line:
Provide a link to a corresponding Feedback Thread in the Forums.
to
Provide a link to a corresponding Feedback Thread in the Forums:
and
If no thread exists on the forum yet, create a new thread here, giving the following poll options:
to
If no thread exists on the forum yet, create a new thread here with the series/project name as the subject.
Details on what to name the Teaser Feedback thread should be indicated. Though people can compare to threads for other series... the less uncertainty, the more likely someone will post/start a new project.

About #4
Cthaeh wrote: I also don't think one volume worth of content spread across multiple volumes should qualify (I don't want "special circumstances" to be able to be interpreted like that).
^--- This is a very strong argument against not using my suggestion for "(or equivalent)" and makes me lean more toward keeping it simple with option B. If the Admins are the ones that OK the project status, and if a project is particularly meritorious of an exception wouldn't it be a simple matter for them to just note it somewhere (maybe using hidden comments on the overview page, so the other admins don't undo it) and provide the exception? (Particularly since there will already be existing projects grandfathered with an exception if #5 C happens.)

Off Topic but I also agree with:
Spoiler! :
Darklor wrote:Is it really like that? At my time nearly no one did visit the teasers...
It doesn't stand out at all in the side menu as anything interesting... it would be good if the main page had links to the major categories somewhere... maybe under "Quick Links?" I've always just navigated directly to the projects I was interested in by directly clicking on them under "Light Novels". Oh, wow... clicked on "Categories" on the left menu for the first time... :shock:

Also I notice that the Teaser Projects page "Category:Teaser (English)" only links to these guidelines in reference to becoming a "Full Project" so it might be good to change the place where it says "Teaser Project" on the second line inside the top box to link directly to the top of the "Baka-Tsuki:New Project Startup Guidelines" page. Or maybe even better add a line:
"Click here for guidelines on how to start a new Project."
Last edited by rydenius on Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: added spoiler tag to shorten post and hide off topic comments
Post Reply

Return to “Feedback on Rules”