Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.0

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Vote to officially ratify the New Project Startup Guidelines (Wiki) and approve from draft status

Yes - I read the proposed rules and vote to officially approve them
14
82%
No - There is something seriously wrong. I object.
2
12%
Wait - Please make some minor corrections first. I'll change my vote after it's satisfactory.
1
6%
 
Total votes: 17

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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by victorrama »

Just want to inform that my vote for no 5 moved to C.
I just remember that it's hard to get the series there... sorry for that. Got to appreciate TLer out there. And hello Rydenius :D . It's just me or I'm the only regular member here... other's seems like project translator / editor etc.
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by KuroiHikari »

A small thing, but could we drop the mention of raws and just say you're expected to submit a translated excerpt.
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by chaoticrun »

I received the messages and kinda curious... so can I vote too?

0. A
1. C

I guess there are some TLers who just want to translate the novel because they liked it, and they can't wait for others to translate it for them...
2. B
4. C

I think that there are some people who still have problem IRL, and can't be forced to do that, even though they really want it....
I also agree to the "why demoralize" part.. :D

One question,
Spoiler! :
If the One Volume rules gets voted in, what if, for example:
- There are 2 chapters translated at Volume 1, out of 4. And,
- There are 2 chapters translated too at Volume 2, out of 4.
Is that counted as 1 Volume translated?
Thank you.
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by cloudii »

cloud wrote: 0). Should the Wiki Project Creator ensure there's a forum feedback thread?
  1. Yes (Mandatory). If a forum feedback thread doesn't exist, they're required to create one. --- (12) Misogi, Chancs, Cloudii, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Darklor, Kira082, Victorrama, Bicube, Rydenius, Chaoticrun
  2. No (Optional). However, recommend that they create one. --- (2) Vallor, Cthaeh
  3. No. Don't give any mention to forum feedback threads in Project Startup Guidelines. --- (0)
1). About the Future Project Suggestion Poll in these rules...
  1. Should be kept in the startup rules and MANDATORY --- (2) Chancs, Kira082
  2. Should be kept in the startup rules and OPTIONAL (current) --- (0)
  3. Should be removed from the startup rules (FPS will still exist on forums, though). --- (11) Cloudii, Misogi, Victorrama, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, Darklor, Bicube, Cthaeh, Rydenius, Chaoticrun
2). Should there only be one feedback-related forum thread for a project, at a time? If yes, vote on the best way to maintain this.
  1. Yes, lock old threads --- (1.5) Vallor, Rydenius/2
  2. Yes, have only one thread and keep moving it (merge posts for any extra threads accidentally created)--- (11.5) Cloudii, Misogi, Chancs, Victorrama, Devenk, SoulTranslator, Yoyoyo5678, Kira082, Bicube, Cthaeh, Rydenius/2, Chaoticrun
  3. No. Keep the feedback threads separate and keep them unlocked. --- (0)
3). If you said "B" to Question 2, what should we do about the poll questions?
4). What should be the minimum requirements for full project approval? You must give a concrete number of chapters/pages/percentage.
  1. 1 volume OR 1 chapter +activity --- (1) Darklor
  2. 1 volume ONLY --- (6) Victorrama, Cloudii, Chancs, Cthaeh, Kira082, Bicube
  3. 1 volume (approximately), but lower in special circumstances --- (8) Misogi, Devenk83, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, SoulTranslator, Rydenius, Chaoticrun
5). If the ONE VOLUME requirement gets voted in, what should we do about current series with less than one volume on the sidebar?.
  1. Keep them on as Full Projects --- (0)
  2. Re-categorize all of them as Teasers (remove from sidebar) --- (3) Devenk83, Vallor, Cthaeh
  3. Re-categorize only the inactive ones, but leave the active ones on the sidebar (give active TL a chance) ---- (7.5) Yoyoyo5678, Kira082, Bicube, Chancs, Cloudii, SoulTranslator, Rydenius/2, Victorrama
  4. Re-categorize their category tags, but keep them on the sidebar --- (1.5) Darklor, Rydenius/2
^Updated.
Darklor wrote:Hm, its just for me that the wording of this choice would mean for me that there should be only one thread as long as they are teasers... - if that isnt the case I would take that choice too...as long as the project poll would reflect the project status.
The wording of this poll isn't really being carried over to the rules. I only asked the mini-polls to get an idea of what people wanted, so it could be reflected in the Wiki rules. Currently, the Wiki rules only state that the Creator should make the Teaser Feedback Thread only if the Future Project Suggestion Thread does not exist. It says nothing about forbidding extra threads or anything (if anything, that would be forum rules, not Wiki rules).
Darklor wrote:Is it really like that? At my time nearly no one did visit the teasers...

And what I meant is: give those already in the sidebar the teaser tag and for the hopeful readers a warning on the project page that those projects are now considered teasers under the new full project rules.
XD Yup, I interpreted you correctly. I even gave everyone a new option with your suggestion on the poll. :3

Though I should mention, I really liked Rydenius's suggestion to move the link to Teaser's right next to the full project list, so it's even easier to click on. But then again, that's again DarkoNeko's domain, so all I can do is pass the suggestion to him..
KuroiHikari wrote:A small thing, but could we drop the mention of raws and just say you're expected to submit a translated excerpt.
Done. Minor change, so I don't think anyone will take issue with it.

@Rydenius:
Also minor changes, so I've corrected those items on the Wiki.
chaoticrun wrote:If the One Volume rules gets voted in, what if, for example:
- There are 2 chapters translated at Volume 1, out of 4. And,
- There are 2 chapters translated too at Volume 2, out of 4.
Is that counted as 1 Volume translated?
No. Under this system, it's not. However, I added an option to the votes in case that's what you want (1 volume's worth of chapters).
EDIT: Actually, removed that vote option. xD

------

Furthermore, the vote majority for question #4 have shifted to "volume volume w/ special exceptions".

As such, the wiki rules now reflect that change. I've displayed it as a compromise so the one volume looks like the main rule, but there's a mini-disclaimer saying it may be lower.
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by denormative »

chaoticrun wrote:One question,
Spoiler! :
If the One Volume rules gets voted in, what if, for example:
- There are 2 chapters translated at Volume 1, out of 4. And,
- There are 2 chapters translated too at Volume 2, out of 4.
Is that counted as 1 Volume translated?
Exceptions can be made for exceptional circumstances. We'll probably end up grandfathering in a bunch of titles anyway, so there's already going to be a bunch that comply with the rules only in spirit. (Though I recall there's a bunch in the sidebar at the moment that both have only a few chapters completed and are stalled/translator-less in all but name, so they really should be 'unapproved' as projects in this situation).
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by yoyoyo5678 »

chaoticrun wrote:If the One Volume rules gets voted in, what if, for example:
- There are 2 chapters translated at Volume 1, out of 4. And,
- There are 2 chapters translated too at Volume 2, out of 4.
Is that counted as 1 Volume translated?
Thank you.
I consider similar cases to this case as special circumstance (of course this isn't the only type of special circumstances)
So if everyone agree with me - there is no need the option of "1 volume's worth of chapters".
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by cloudii »

yoyoyo5678 wrote:
chaoticrun wrote:If the One Volume rules gets voted in, what if, for example:
- There are 2 chapters translated at Volume 1, out of 4. And,
- There are 2 chapters translated too at Volume 2, out of 4.
Is that counted as 1 Volume translated?
Thank you.
I consider similar cases to this case as special circumstance (of course this isn't the only type of special circumstances)
So if everyone agree with me - there is no need the option of "1 volume's worth of chapters".
Sure, I'll remove that vote option. We can consider it a special circumstance.

-------

Since, there's a clear majority in practically every topic (except #4, but it they're not that different concepts), I'd like to encourage everyone to turn their attention to the main thread poll. I will ask a Supervisor to officially approve this thread once there are >10 votes for yes and no new objections/etc.

Furthermore, the people who voted "object" must speak up now, or we'll pass these rules without hearing your disagreements. xD I don't even know who the people who voted "object" are.
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by Misogi »

cloud wrote: 4). What should be the minimum requirements for full project approval? You must give a concrete number of chapters/pages/percentage.
  1. 1 volume OR 1 chapter +activity --- (1) Darklor
  2. 1 volume ONLY --- (6) Victorrama, Cloudii, Chancs, Cthaeh, Kira082, Bicube
  3. 1 volume (approximately), but lower in special circumstances --- (7) Misogi, Devenk83, Yoyoyo5678, Vallor, SoulTranslator, Rydenius, Chaoticrun
Corrected the typo (7 votes, 8 was written).

Well, to convince those who have voted B, I'd say that there are some cases on which it's nice to be more flexible.
For example, the involvement of a prolific translator (for whom you can approve the project now, so that you don't have to do it later), the one-shots, or some particular cases.

I'll use the example of SAO in French. As all the main story's volumes will be removed, there won't be a full volume available. So it should be in the Teasers, according to the one-volume rule.
However, as there's only the several side stories, it may be enough to consider the project as a full one. Hence the importance of allowing some exceptions.

Otherwise, Cloudii's compromise is decent.
cloud wrote:The only main issue we disagree with right now is point #4. How about I propose a compromise?

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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by Cindynka »

These Project Startup Guidelines apply to all new Baka-Tsuki projects, including alternative language projects and alternative media projects.
Valid Baka-Tsuki projects include light novels originally published in Japanese/Korean/Chinese, visual novels, and original novels of any language.
Well, the rules below don't really match the idea of ALT lang projects (since they are announced in other forum section and at least right now it isn't so difficult, starting ALT project). Maybe it would be better to specify the rules for ALT lang projects so new users won't get confused.
-> Start a topic in ALT lang section
-> Is the poll really necessary? Since a lot of readers don't visit forums, I don't think they will vote (languages with sub-forum may be different though)
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by Misogi »

Cindynka wrote:Well, the rules below don't really match the idea of ALT lang projects (since they are announced in other forum section and at least right now it isn't so difficult, starting ALT project). Maybe it would be better to specify the rules for ALT lang projects so new users won't get confused.
-> Start a topic in ALT lang section
-> Is the poll really necessary? Since a lot of readers don't visit forums, I don't think they will vote (languages with sub-forum may be different though)
- Agreed, but I guess that it should be better to create a separate and translated page for the other languages.
- No, but it can't hurt to have a poll. I don't check them regularly, but there are some votes.
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by cloudii »

I leave the ALT project protocol completely to you ALT language supervisors. xD

But just to confirm, the only difference for ALT project startup is to place a thread in the ALT Lang forum, right? Or is it generally less complicated than the current protocol we have up here?

For example, under this line:
If no thread exists on the forum yet, create a new thread here with your series as the title, and give the following poll options:
Would it solve everything if I added a comment under it that said:
Note: If you are starting an alternative language project, you should create the new thread here: [link to Alt Lang Forum]
We can separate the rules to two pages for Alt/non-alt, but is it possible to combine them? If it can't be merged, I'm not writing the separate ALT Project startup guidelines. Someone else do it. XDDD *fleeing from responsibilities* @____@;;;
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by Cindynka »

Misogi wrote: - Agreed, but I guess that it should be better to create a separate and translated page for the other languages.
- No, but it can't hurt to have a poll. I don't check them regularly, but there are some votes.
I agree with the translated page but I think that the separate one isn't needed. Most of the content would be the same as it is now.

Actually, I would just split this point:
Provide a link to a corresponding Feedback Thread in the Forums:
into two sections - one for ALTs and one for English. For ALT, there's nothing like Future Project Suggestion Forum so I would leave that out completly and just add the point about the ALT forum and about starting a topic in the format "Name of the LN (which may be abrevated in some cases like TWGOK or AnoHana etc.) - Language" or any similiar form. And also change all existing topics into one form. For the languages with sub-forum, it would be started in the sub-forum. I guess that it's given that the poll would be in language according to the translation.


Maybe it would be better to make Project Overview Page Conventions for each language so all the projects of one language have pages in the same format.


And this
At least one volume of the series must be fully translated.
would probably need change for English (I think I've seen above something about this but I haven't seen the outcome), at least in the case of one shots.

EDIT:
Maybe it would be better to state that in case of (for example):
1 volume (one shot) - at least one chapter translated is required (doesn't iclude the prologue).
More than 1 volume and less than 5 volumes - 3 chapters are required (maybe about half of the volume?)
More than 5 volumes - one volume translated is required.

Since for the shorter projects, the whole translation will be more likely done.
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by rydenius »

Thanks for the welcome victorrama :)

Hmm... I thought the poll questions where going away, or would be marked optional. :? Doesn't bother me if they stay though.
Also I like the proposed idea for adding:
Note: If you are starting an alternative language project, you should create the new thread here: [link to Alt Lang Forum]
That would hopefully allow the single page to be used for both Alt Lang and English which would be good for consistency. But there should also be instructions on the forum thread title to be created since it's a bit different from the English one:
Note: For starting an alternative language project, you should create the new thread in the Alt Language Forum[link to Alt Lang Forum] with the series name (target language) as the title. ex: Series Name (German)
In any case, thanks for your hard work Cloud! I think the recent changes look good and address my earlier concerns, so I've added my vote for approval. It's great to have clear guidelines for creating projects readily accessible as part of the wiki now.
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by cloudii »

Cindynka wrote:Maybe it would be better to state that in case of (for example):
1 volume (one shot) - at least one chapter translated is required (doesn't iclude the prologue).
More than 1 volume and less than 5 volumes - 3 chapters are required (maybe about half of the volume?)
More than 5 volumes - one volume translated is required.

Since for the shorter projects, the whole translation will be more likely done.
That's just incredibly complicated......... in my opinion...

Personally, I don't think it's really necessary to give one-shots lower requirements. The length of the published series shouldn't really change our requirements. It's not like one-shots are particularly longer than any other standard light novel volumes.

People seem to think that Teaser Projects will get lesser visibility than Full Projects, but I'm imagining a future somewhat like this:

Cloud's Slightly Re-worked Main Page

Basically, I'd like to see Teasers and Light Novel categories very big on the main page. Impossible to miss. Hopefully, this should alleviate people's concerns of a project being in Teasers for longer.

Coupled with the fact that I'm now tracking updates, I've been covering updates on all English projects (including Teasers) for almost 2 months now, and (based on the Facebook stats that I get to see), they bring a lot of traffic to teasers since people glance through the list of recent updates and realize they don't recognize a certain name (and hence click). At this point, I'm quite confident that readers check the teasers category pretty frequently.
rydenius wrote:Hmm... I thought the poll questions where going away, or would be marked optional. :? Doesn't bother me if they stay though.
Earlier, there was an additional set of poll questions (for Future Project Suggestions). That was the set that was removed.

No one ever voted to remove the second set of polls.
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Re: Rule Ratification: New Project Startup (Wiki) Version 1.

Post by victorrama »

For yhe main page change yeap that's it beautiful.
And if the side bar can ONLY consist the 3 of em even better. ( maybe 4 with original LN. )
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