Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

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Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby DissmalScientist » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:51 am

Thanks, as always, to ShadowHeart for his translation. Very humorous so far.
I just had 3 quick questions about the chapter.

This sentence. "A scream that does not sound like one came out from the youth’s mouth."
A scream that does not sound like one? Maybe some clearing up is needed.

Another sentence. "Before Ren who is dumbfounded like a wooden chicken, the two intimately hold hands and walks off."
That is hilarious but I'm assuming this is some kind of idiom/analogy from Chinese or Japanese? I've never heard of someone being dumbfounded like a wooden chicken.

When Ren is calling people sister or older sister would we want to change that to straight up Japanese, for example, Misao-nee or Shop keeper nee-san? There's no real English equivalent.
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby ShadowZeroHeart » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:06 pm

DissmalScientist wrote:Thanks, as always, to ShadowHeart for his translation. Very humorous so far.
I just had 3 quick questions about the chapter.

This sentence. "A scream that does not sound like one came out from the youth’s mouth."
A scream that does not sound like one? Maybe some clearing up is needed.

Another sentence. "Before Ren who is dumbfounded like a wooden chicken, the two intimately hold hands and walks off."
That is hilarious but I'm assuming this is some kind of idiom/analogy from Chinese or Japanese? I've never heard of someone being dumbfounded like a wooden chicken.

When Ren is calling people sister or older sister would we want to change that to straight up Japanese, for example, Misao-nee or Shop keeper nee-san? There's no real English equivalent.


In school now, so i cant check up on the first...

The second, it is not an idiom/analogy, it is a metaphor... saying that ren is as dumbfounded as a wooden chicken? and yes, i have never heard of someone being dumbfounded like a wooden chicken myself either.

Well, that could work... LOLz, i thought it was weird, but i never thought about what to use... Okay, i dont mind changing that to -nee and nee-san from now, mind helping me edit those in the translations?

Thanks for your comments, and glad you like my translations ^^ working on 50~75% of the chapter since yesterday, would hopefully be up by today
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Hiyono » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:27 pm

It's a Chinese idiom (呆若木鸡) that means exactly what it's been translated as, i.e. to be dumbstruck.
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby ShadowZeroHeart » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:39 pm

Hiyono wrote:It's a Chinese idiom (呆若木鸡) that means exactly what it's been translated as, i.e. to be dumbstruck.


Sorry >"< my mistake, guess i need to learn more chinese terms... thanks for clarifying that, i will check the actual text once more once i get home, thank you for the help
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby ShadowZeroHeart » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:16 pm

DissmalScientist wrote:Thanks, as always, to ShadowHeart for his translation. Very humorous so far.
I just had 3 quick questions about the chapter.

This sentence. "A scream that does not sound like one came out from the youth’s mouth."
A scream that does not sound like one? Maybe some clearing up is needed.

Another sentence. "Before Ren who is dumbfounded like a wooden chicken, the two intimately hold hands and walks off."
That is hilarious but I'm assuming this is some kind of idiom/analogy from Chinese or Japanese? I've never heard of someone being dumbfounded like a wooden chicken.

When Ren is calling people sister or older sister would we want to change that to straight up Japanese, for example, Misao-nee or Shop keeper nee-san? There's no real English equivalent.


Sorry for the delay, i just reached home.

First part, actual text is 不成聲的叫喊從少年的口中迸出.
不成聲 as in does not fit as a scream or voice? it describes the scream.
叫喊從少年的口中迸出 this part is about the scream coming out from his mouth.

Second part...

Hiyono wrote:It's a Chinese idiom (呆若木鸡) that means exactly what it's been translated as, i.e. to be dumbstruck.


Yes, that is the exact idiom... to be dumbstruck, you can leave the wooden chicken there for fun, or take it off since it is just a metaphor and not really needed...

Third part, i answered it earlier, but now i would like to ask these instead...
So should i change the way they call others? like Ren calling Kazuma Brother changed to the jap method, similarly for them towards their parents and such? or just for the sister part? @@
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Hiyono » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:53 pm

I'm in favor of the Japanese naming & honorific conventions, yes.
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby ShadowZeroHeart » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:21 pm

^^" thanks for the vote... but i am not a Jap pro...
Mind telling me what are the conventions? and their respective meanings? so i know when to use them?

P.S. for Dad i need two at least, one for Kazuma and one for Ren and others?
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Hiyono » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:57 pm

I'd need the Japanese text to know how the characters address each other.
不成聲 is pretty weird. The only thing I can think of would be a wordless scream. Perhaps someone with the Japanese raws would be able to help clarify.

EDIT: Just finished editing part one. I have newfound respect for you translators, this takes an eternity :/
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby ShadowZeroHeart » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:43 am

This location name appeared in the text, anyone mind helping to translate it?

千代區九段北

This part is extracted from a news, talking about the place where... errmmm... how should i put it, the place where missiles, guns, sniper rifles, tornadoes all appeared with a flaming human and a guy who survived through it all without a scratch? I think you know where that is, so anyone mind telling me the location? ^^" i cant translate names or sounds... so... please, a little help?

Edit: Sorry, i forgot to ask this as well, does Japan have some legend regarding its security? i am currently translating it as "legend of Japan's security", but if there is an actual name for it, i should use it... so any help?

Edit part 2: Chapter 2, 100% up, edits please! MUAHAHA!!WORK TO DEATH EDITORS!! =X just kidding, thanks for the hard work!
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Hiyono » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:59 pm

Thanks to Vaelis (you rock Image), I was able to use the Japanese raws to clarify a few things!
  • You're missing a character, it's 千代 (区is the simplified form of 區) and 九段北 (Chiyoda-ku [Chiyoda Ward] and Kudankita [district of Chiyoda]), so Chiyoda Ward, Kudankita (perhaps add "District" to Kudankita, though it doesn't specifically say so?)
  • Kazuma calls Genma "Oyaji"
  • Ren calls Genma "Chichi [lit: 父]," but given what else "chichi" can mean, maybe Father is better :P
  • Looks like just about everyone calls Juugo "Soushu," except Ayano who uses "Otou-sama"

Questionable areas:
Section 2 wrote:Looking at the way the two are fooling around, passers-by can’t help but give a faint bitter smile.

Why a bitter smile?

Section 2 wrote:Ren faces Ayano while on tenderhooks.

Yeah, I have no idea what "tenderhooks" is supposed to mean.

Section 3 wrote:The two are holding hands, walking on the road with an abnormally intimate shining stature.

Shining stature?

Random comments:
Oh, what a shame it's so unprofessional, this series is so fun to play straight man for :p (editing sucks, so I take my fun where I can get it OTL)
For example:
Perhaps because of that, the shank displayed from below her coat looks exceptionally gorgeous. To describe it in a single word, it would be coquettish.

My first thought was, "that's gotta be the first time I've ever heard a shank described as 'coquettish'."
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby ShadowZeroHeart » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:06 pm

Hiyono wrote:Thanks to Vaelis (you rock Image), I was able to use the Japanese raws to clarify a few things!
  • You're missing a character, it's 千代 (区is the simplified form of 區) and 九段北 (Chiyoda-ku [Chiyoda Ward] and Kudankita [district of Chiyoda]), so Chiyoda Ward, Kudankita (perhaps add "District" to Kudankita, though it doesn't specifically say so?)
  • Kazuma calls Genma "Oyaji"
  • Ren calls Genma "Chichi [lit: 父]," but given what else "chichi" can mean, maybe Father is better :P
  • Looks like just about everyone calls Juugo "Soushu," except Ayano who uses "Otou-sama"

Questionable areas:
Section 2 wrote:Looking at the way the two are fooling around, passers-by can’t help but give a faint bitter smile.

Why a bitter smile?

Section 2 wrote:Ren faces Ayano while on tenderhooks.

Yeah, I have no idea what "tenderhooks" is supposed to mean.

Section 3 wrote:The two are holding hands, walking on the road with an abnormally intimate shining stature.

Shining stature?

Random comments:
Oh, what a shame it's so unprofessional, this series is so fun to play straight man for :p (editing sucks, so I take my fun where I can get it OTL)
For example:
Perhaps because of that, the shank displayed from below her coat looks exceptionally gorgeous. To describe it in a single word, it would be coquettish.

My first thought was, "that's gotta be the first time I've ever heard a shank described as 'coquettish'."


1, the book missed the word perhaps? i will check again later.
Chichi as in Chichi-Ue or how do you spell it? i will check again later. (not home atm)
So do i use the term Shoushu rather than Clan Chief?

Why a bitter smile...? erm... why... that is a tough question...
Because they look funny on the street and they would not want to do the same? how would i know?

tenderhook, if i recall, it is because he is unsure of how to deal with her, but i cannot be certain until i get back to check.
Sorry, it is tenterhook >"<
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=tenterhook
on tenterhook means in a state of uneasy suspense or painful anxiety.
Sorry for the mistake

Yes, i posted on another thread or something. There was no better way to phrase it properly, will link later... lecture starting...

Shank... you had the wrong meaning?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shank

1. Anatomy. the part of the lower limb in humans between the knee and the ankle; leg.
2. a corresponding or analogous part in certain animals.
3. the lower limb in humans, including both the leg and the thigh.
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Hiyono » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:05 pm

ShadowZeroHeart wrote:Chichi as in Chichi-Ue or how do you spell it? i will check again later. (not home atm)

Ren uses 父 which simply reads "chichi." "Chichi-ue" is 父上. I found it rather odd myself.

ShadowZeroHeart wrote:So do i use the term Soushu rather than Clan Chief?

If you don't mind. I changed some of them and one of the earlier translators used it.

ShadowZeroHeart wrote:tenderhook, if i recall, it is because he is unsure of how to deal with her, but i cannot be certain until i get back to check.
Sorry, it is tenterhook >"<
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=tenterhook
on tenterhook means in a state of uneasy suspense or painful anxiety.
Sorry for the mistake

Nah, it's my fault. I should have caught that.

ShadowZeroHeart wrote:Shank... you had the wrong meaning?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shank

1. Anatomy. the part of the lower limb in humans between the knee and the ankle; leg.
2. a corresponding or analogous part in certain animals.
3. the lower limb in humans, including both the leg and the thigh.

Heh, no, I knew both meanings, but to me, the first impression was the one I gave. You don't really say "shank" to describe that part of the leg unless you're talking about meat.

Oh, and did you figure out what the "shining stature" comment meant? Or do you need to check your books first?
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby ShadowZeroHeart » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:46 am

Chinese translation for the place has one word less.

Sorry, i am bad at english, so i am unsure of the right word to use...
Placed the word in online translation dictionary and the word "Shank" popped out. Not sure of its usage, but its meaning is correct, so i threw it in... Sorry... and what should be the right word then?

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=2214&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45

"The two walked hand in hand along the road, practically glowing with a peculiar kind of intimacy/closeness."

This was another translation of the line by elkin, who does believe it is a case of bad chinese too...

Actual line: 兩人手牽手,一副親密異常的閃光模樣走在路上.

Literal translation... "Try forming your own sentence!" Puzzle 1! Give It a Try!!
兩人手牽手= the two holding hands
一副親密異常= a scene of abnormal intimacy or look peculiarly close[by elkin]
閃光模樣= shining look, as if glowing?
走在路上= walk on the road.

Thus my translation. elkin skipped the shining thing part i guess...
A combination of the two may perhaps be
"The two walks on the road holding hands, glowing with a peculiar intimacy."

And
Hiyono wrote:Random comments:
Oh, what a shame it's so unprofessional, this series is so fun to play straight man for :p (editing sucks, so I take my fun where I can get it OTL)


I know... I did not think it is so tough, or that translating is so difficult... Now i know... Hey, at least I did my best! Besides, in this manner i am pretty sure anyone can tell how much of the author's words/meanings are retained!! =X
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby Hiyono » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:48 pm

Chapter 2, part 4 is now done, which completes the editing of all of Chapter 2.
Just one thing though, can someone check the translation of the following for me? しかしそれ以上に、重悟は和麻の危うさが気になっていた.

Random comment: lol @ "Not a metaphor" being present in the original text
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Re: Book 2, Chapter 2 Discussion

Postby ShadowZeroHeart » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:39 pm

Hiyono wrote:Chapter 2, part 4 is now done, which completes the editing of all of Chapter 2.
Just one thing though, can someone check the translation of the following for me? しかしそれ以上に、重悟は和麻の危うさが気になっていた.

Random comment: lol @ "Not a metaphor" being present in the original text


Yes, it is present in the original text =X
All non-original text are in [ ]
so that means that is a true note from the author ^^

And that japanese abstract, if i recall, is Jugo feeling how dangerous Kazuma is... Need someone to translate its exact meaning though
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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ShadowZeroHeart
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