Editing paragraph structures

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nwms8
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Editing paragraph structures

Post by nwms8 »

Hello, I would lke to thank you for translating Kaze no Stigma the novel. I enjoyed the anime, though I have to admit it was your novel translation that got me hooked to the series again. I wanted to offer my opinion and time if you are open to suggestions. I have read all of your translations for Kaze no Stigma so far, and I love them. However, I would love to see achange and that is in the grouping of certain sentences, mainly quotes. For example (I chose a random chapter which happened to be Volume 2 - Chapter 4):
“…… Kazuma-san……?”

The girl sitting on the bench looks dumbly at Kazuma who came from the skies.

“…………”

Kazuma tilts his head downwards to look at her with a shocked expression. After a long stare, he gives a deep sigh.

“…… I had considered that it might be you…… But I never expected you to go to such an extent.”
Take that excerpt for example near the beginning of the chapter for example. I feel that there would be more ownership to the quotes if it would be restructured like this:

“Kazuma-san...?” The girl sitting on the bench looks dumbly at Kazuma who came from the skies.

“…………” Kazuma tilts his head downwards to look at her with a shocked expression. After a long stare, he gives a deep sigh. “I had considered that it might be you, but I never expected you to go to such an extent...”
Of course, I realize that this may differ from the actual way the text is written in the novel; however this type of sentence grouping makes more sense to me in terms of being a novel. I wouldn't mind revising the current work to reflect these changes over the next few weeks, granted you see my poing of view and are open to my suggestion for change. Thanks again for your hard work, I really enjoyed reading it.

Edit- Spelling errors
quethiril
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Re: Editing paragraph structures

Post by quethiril »

Not that I have anything to do with KnS (yet...?) but I like this idea. You're right that it's not how the text is actually written, but I feel like the Japanese style of very short "paragraphs" is jarring in English.

Too bad it probably wouldn't work with Ginban Kaleidoscope, since most of it is alternating the narrator's private thoughts and dialogue.
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Azelf and Jirachi
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Re: Editing paragraph structures

Post by Azelf and Jirachi »

Separating the dialogue and narration into different lines makes it much easier to read, and actually gives it a better feel (which is more important than making sense).

I actually strongly prefer the text to be written the original way, which is why I kept that format since I started editing a few weeks ago.

...but we'll have to wait for inputs from the others.
Last edited by Azelf and Jirachi on Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ShadowZeroHeart
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Re: Editing paragraph structures

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

Azelf and Jirachi wrote:Separating the dialogue and narration into different lines makes it much easier to read, and actually gives it a better feel (which is more important than making sense).

I actually strongly prefer the text to be written the original way, which is why I kept that format since I started editing a few weeks ago.

...but we'll have to wait for inputs from the other editors.
Editors' world i guess... No one needs me anymore...

*Goes and sulk in some dark corner*

Mumbles to self: Fine, the structure isnt all that western, but the text I read from is in Chinese, which is in some ways rather similar to Japanese. And as I mentioned over and over, I think that Chinese/Japanese novels do try to write it in a sense that the event is on-going, instead of the retelling of the story after it is over. Thus I would think that its current structure is rather good, since readers will know quite clearly that the events are distinct, and the sequence. However, but if people do think that the suggested structure is better, they can change it, afterall, i am not needed anymore... If there are supporters for both sides, a poll shall be created eventually to determine which is more popular, but since i am not an editor, i guess i am out of that too...
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Azelf and Jirachi
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Re: Editing paragraph structures

Post by Azelf and Jirachi »

ShadowZeroHeart wrote:
Azelf and Jirachi wrote:Separating the dialogue and narration into different lines makes it much easier to read, and actually gives it a better feel (which is more important than making sense).

I actually strongly prefer the text to be written the original way, which is why I kept that format since I started editing a few weeks ago.

...but we'll have to wait for inputs from the others.
Editors' world i guess... No one needs me anymore...

*Goes and sulk in some dark corner*
Fine, I changed it <_<
I edited my original post too.
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nwms8
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Re: Editing paragraph structures

Post by nwms8 »

Oh, this is a matter of personal preference I suppose. Its your translation work, If you feel thats the way you want it structured then by all means keep it that way.

As a reader, I would have preferred it to be structured differently, because thats my preconceived norm as to what a novel should be like. Both structures are pretty much the same, in maybe the same way the word tomato can be pronounced differently and still be the same word. Yet somehow, I feel like pushing for a bit of a change towards my direction, and since its an open discussion, I hope you don't take it as an insult and sulk in a corner.

Overall, the current structure works fine for the majority. The few parts I do want to change are mostly in the spoken dialogue, because sometimes there is a conflict with the flow of dialogue in my mind when I read the translation. My arguement is that combining the speaker with the dialogue creates a bit more of a cohesion in the flow of the novel. Perhaps it is my unfamiliarity with the way Japanese novels are written that makes me want to change it so much. For example, in the latest Volume 2 Chapter 6, near the intro:
“……Finally……”

Those red lips give off an agitated voice of happiness.

“This moment has finally arrived……”

“I don’t know which moment it is you are referring to, but it is indeed time to settle things.”

Kazuma nods, saying this meaningful line.

“I don’t really care------ But must you kill “that person”?”

“Ahh, you mean “this person”?”

Misao lowers her head to look at her father’s head that she is hugging.
It is a bit difficult to tell who is speaking in my opinion, the way it is currently written. Going from one quote to another, I had to stop to make sure I understood who was saying which line. I had to slow down my reading a sec to process who was saying which line, which was slightly detracting from the suspense of the story for me. I felt it would flow better if it was, maybe written as:
“Finally...” Those red lips give off an agitated voice of happiness. “This moment has finally arrived...”

“I don’t know which moment it is you are referring to, but it is indeed time to settle things,” Kazuma nods, saying this meaningful line. “I don’t really care------ but must you kill “that person”?”

“Ahh, you mean “this person”?” Misao lowers her head to look at her father’s head that she is hugging.
I don't want to make long and hard to read 5-6 line paragraphs. I just want to condense some of the dialogue, grouping 3-4 lines of spoken dialogue together and bundling it into one. I hope I've conveyed why and how I want to make the changes, and I'll grant that our opions may differ. If you're still not convinced by my argument, I'd be more than willing to put up a poll to see how others feel. After all, this is a community and I wouldn't want to impose a minority perspective on the majority.
quethiril
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Re: Editing paragraph structures

Post by quethiril »

A possible consideration: as a translator, you're never going to capture everything that's in the original. I think when I read Japanese, a lot of what helps me figure out the speaker is his/her particular style of speech (old person, young man, little kid, etc.) which is hard to translate. So if you see changing the paragraph structure as making up for the inability to convey speech patterns, then it goes toward the translation goal of capturing as much of the meaning from the original as possible.

*shrug* I'm a literalist when it comes to translation, too, so I can understand all those who are opposed. Just trying to say there is a literal form of being "faithful to the text" and a more big-picture form.
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ShadowZeroHeart
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Re: Editing paragraph structures

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

nwms8 wrote:Oh, this is a matter of personal preference I suppose. Its your translation work, If you feel thats the way you want it structured then by all means keep it that way.

As a reader, I would have preferred it to be structured differently, because thats my preconceived norm as to what a novel should be like. Both structures are pretty much the same, in maybe the same way the word tomato can be pronounced differently and still be the same word. Yet somehow, I feel like pushing for a bit of a change towards my direction, and since its an open discussion, I hope you don't take it as an insult and sulk in a corner.

Overall, the current structure works fine for the majority. The few parts I do want to change are mostly in the spoken dialogue, because sometimes there is a conflict with the flow of dialogue in my mind when I read the translation. My arguement is that combining the speaker with the dialogue creates a bit more of a cohesion in the flow of the novel. Perhaps it is my unfamiliarity with the way Japanese novels are written that makes me want to change it so much.

It is a bit difficult to tell who is speaking in my opinion, the way it is currently written. Going from one quote to another, I had to stop to make sure I understood who was saying which line. I had to slow down my reading a sec to process who was saying which line, which was slightly detracting from the suspense of the story for me.

I don't want to make long and hard to read 5-6 line paragraphs. I just want to condense some of the dialogue, grouping 3-4 lines of spoken dialogue together and bundling it into one. I hope I've conveyed why and how I want to make the changes, and I'll grant that our opions may differ. If you're still not convinced by my argument, I'd be more than willing to put up a poll to see how others feel. After all, this is a community and I wouldn't want to impose a minority perspective on the majority.
I see both sides of the picture, just like quethiril. And I do agree with nwms's point, even I have times when I am not sure who is saying which line when I am reading. That would indeed have to be inferred by past experience as you read. And nwms8, PLEASE DO NOT EVER SAY "Its your work, you can do what you want with it". I am no ruler nor king, I am just a mere human. I make mistakes, I can improve(i hope). And to do that, i would need people to point things out. Furthermore, there is no way i can represent the majority. So just voice out what you think.

And your point is very valid. However, I would still work on providing as literal as a draft for the editors to work on. Personally I would think I should provide as close a draft as to the text i work upon, such that if anything goes wrong, you can always go back and check out the original(and pray it is of a satisfactory quality). I deem it the job of the editors to make it more presentable and more understandable. I would think it is a better idea than to throw out a draft of "What I think readers would want" and then make the editors work on it further, warping the original meanings to a scary extent(mainly because my literature/english sux).

And so, what does everyone think? should we have a poll to decide on how it should be done?
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Azelf and Jirachi
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Re: Editing paragraph structures

Post by Azelf and Jirachi »

If it's clarity on who is speaking, leave that to me. If I find any place where it's absolutely unclear who is talking, I'll figure it out and clarify, so that shouldn't be a problem anymore.
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nwms8
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Re: Editing paragraph structures

Post by nwms8 »

:D

Thank you, that is much appreciated then!
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