Poll - Changes in Spice And Wolf Guidelines

[Darknemo2000]

What do you mean I changed my position? I am still on the same position that Toradora and ZnT sucess shows that this anarchy is working, and I did not say that images had no connection with that I just said that it is hard to tell how much influence it had, yet it is a fact that it didn't make it worse as both projects are far from struggling. Please learn to read more carefully or at least do not say things that I haven't said at all.

Again, I am using Vaelis list (as I figured you would be too opposed if it was my own listing) which he posted in argument against my project popularity count - you can see it here http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewto ... =16&t=2159

However, even though i do not think that a double folder is that much better idea as in my opinion it is not very convenient I can't ignore the fact that once such idea appeared there was an impressive increase amount of "no" votes so it seems like a lot of people like the idea.

I'd like to know what is TGM idea though since it would as I understand keep both color and non-color ones in same folder just would add a split between them. I do not really think it would be that affective but if it would really solve all this spoiling questions (though me they are vague) then for the better as it would still be convenient and less confusing that placing two separate folders.

Remember, that no matter how evil i may look to you my main purpose is not to piss you off or to paint you as vilalin or get into flaming wars - main purpose is to make SaW better. I dont like you, just like you don't like me either, but it does not mean that i wish for the project bad. Spliting it into two folder would at least ensure that the editors would be able to give out to the chapter finished look (at least concerning looks) which was one of the point I was fighting for, I do not agree with it from the point of convenience as it would look moire confusing and less convenient this way and would prefer it still be kept in a single folder to avoid that. But if votes will keep being so close as they would simply be no other way.

But I do disagree with you that there should be another poll as it would put SaW another month back.

[onizuka-gto]

Spliting it into two folder would at least ensure that the editors would be able to give out to the chapter finished look (at least concerning looks) which was one of the point I was fighting for, I do not agree with it from the point of convenience as it would look moire confusing and less convenient this way and would prefer it still be kept in a single folder to avoid that. But if votes will keep being so close as they would simply be no other way.

folder? what is this folder?

We have folders on the wiki?

[Smidge204]

But I do disagree with you that there should be another poll as it would put SaW another month back.

There is nothing holding the project back now... not that we're on a schedule to begin with.

I don't doubt your intent, but your reasons and justification for "making the project better" are nebulous and transient. That, combined with the passion you use to fight for these ill-defined ideas, is why I'm so strongly opposed to them.
=Smidge=

[Darknemo2000]

Oni my wiki language\can sometimes be very... out of course sometimes. With folders I mean separate links on the novel volume list.

[Krikit]

I'm going to give my two cents, and I hope you can all bear with me and read the post.

I did decide in the end to vote yes to the proposed change, but all the arguing going on was making me wonder if I should even vote at all. I do like the idea of all the images being in the same area. That is, you would click the link and it would take you to the page where you can view the images. It makes it a little bit easier on myself and Barbsicle while we download the images to use for the pdf and eBook, if they are all within the same section. I also like the way it looks having checked the way it would look on Toradora!. I really do think it's nice to have the images all grouped together on a page, where you can scroll down and get a taste and what happens in the novel.

This is my personal opinion though. It's a little easier to find the images to download for people that like them, it's also nice to have them put there for those lurkers we love so much, to look at easily. The images are also in the text, so if one doesn't wish to go into the images folder, they need only click on the links for that images respective chapter.

For the opposition, it seems Smidge has a point about uploading the images multiple times as a problem, and uploading individually to the gallery, then linking those files into the text, is more work.

However, even with the proposed problem being "work-load" I think that if someone wants to upload them to the gallery, all in one section, and One image per...image, then I am all for it. As long as it's done properly. Again, I like the example from Toradora!. They have done a good job in putting all the images in the gallery, while simultaneously putting those images at the correct locations in the text.

Again my opinion, but I'd like to see them all together.

I just wanted to end this though saying that there is no need to start arguing. I think it was okay for you (Darknemo) to bring up concept for a change to the guidelines, but I was a bit turned off at your responses towards others on the forum that were giving their opinion. Since this is your "forum," you need to set the example of maturity. However it is to be noted that those responses weren't full of happy friendly rainbow words either.

Just take this seriously. I'm an active worker on S&W, editing, and communicating with our translators (yay for barb and judgement), and I think it would be nice to see the images all in the same "folder" for easy reference. This is just my opinion though.

If you have a reason for the opposition, then try and convince me why those reasons hold more sway. Is there something that maybe I am overlooking in why having them all in the gallery, as well as throughout the text, would be impractical, if someone was willing to take the time and energy to do it right?

EDIT: I did check Smidge's user page. It is a good point to remember that the images are spoilers. This is probably the biggest downside to the uploading of images to a standard gallery. What it comes down to is, are the "spoilers" okay, giving a glimpse at what could happen, peaking interest, or are they not okay, as they give out too much information, and people that look at them would feel a bit at a loss at having seen what the book has in store for them by accidently clicking on the gallery?

[Smidge204]

EDIT: I did check Smidge's user page. It is a good point to remember that the images are spoilers. This is probably the biggest downside to the uploading of images to a standard gallery. What it comes down to is, are the "spoilers" okay, giving a glimpse at what could happen, peaking interest, or are they not okay, as they give out too much information, and people that look at them would feel a bit at a loss at having seen what the book has in store for them by accidently clicking on the gallery?

Consider changing your vote to "disagree" so we can amend the proposal around fiendmaw's compromise and re-vote. Contrary to what Darknemo says this is not delaying the project in the slightest, and it will probably be worth the time to try and make everyone satisfied.
=Smidge=

[Krikit]

Okay, then I will do that. So are we looking then at two galleries for each of the novels? One that says color images, and one that says non-color images?

It may not be as easily accessible (aka click one more time...) but I do think it's a good compromise, as that way the images are all grouped together for easy reference, while the non-color images are out of the way in case someone doesn't want a spoiler, so I'm going to re-vote. Dark, I think the compromise is the best way to go, as we need to give a little to get a little. You get half of what you want, and in exchange the other side gets half of what they want. A necessary evil =). Are you okay with this? Again I know it wasn't your original intention to have two galleries, but we do need to take into account those that don't want to see the pictures ahead of time.

[onizuka-gto]

Well, seems like a complete u-turn.



Ah, the joy of politburo at work.

[Krikit]

ONI: What does *politburo* mean??? and what do you mean by U-turn? the vote count? excuse my ignorance...but they say sometimes it is bliss ^_^

[onizuka-gto]

U-Turn means a complete change of of direction.

A car does a u-turn, turning 360 degrees, going from the north to the south.

In this case, the votes were going "Yes" but now it's done a complete "U-turn" and is now in favour of "No".

Politburo = politics. A nicer sounding word that is commonly associated with Communism/bureaucracy.

[barbsicle]

A car does a u-turn, turning 360 degrees, going from the north to the south.

well sorry to correct you oni, 360 means it ends up in the same direction.

=O

[onizuka-gto]

A car does a u-turn, turning 360 degrees, going from the north to the south.

well sorry to correct you oni, 360 means it ends up in the same direction.

=O

this is why you should never believe that a politician is doing a "u-turn".

[Krikit]

...isn't the name itself fishy?j "u-turn"..."you-turn"..."your-turn" ..."your-turn-to-make-up-something"....isn't that right?

Anyway, as far as this goes, lets say that the opposed votes remain in the lead. What happens next? Is another forum opened and we wait another month?

The overall "vote" stasis currently seems to be in favor of opening up two galleries under each labeled Volume. One for Color-Images, and one for Non-Color Images[spoilers]. The images all being uploaded into one of two folders will make referencing easier, while still maintaining a separation in case (unlikely) someone doesn't want to see the images before reading the text. ^_^, because we all know we're just going to click on the second gallery anyway...

But yeah, this is the compromise that was proposed, and while I still would prefer them all in the same gallery, I will respect the spoilers and cast my vote on the two gallery option.

What's next? In other words, when does the thread expire, the next one get created, that one expire, a descision reached, and then the implementation??

Do we have a timeline or anything?

-Krikit

[onizuka-gto]

This thread will be open for 30 days, if the votes stay the same when this thread expires (you will know when the thread change to a normal one and you can no longer change your vote) then the proposal will be applied.

[Krikit]

Okay. Then the last thing I can say is:

After working out the info for what might be the best way to manage the pictures, there was another vote cast for the "Yes" section. This is making me think. Should I just toss out the care about spoilers, and just vote to have them put in the main gallery, which is my personal desire? I mean, after all, if someone doesn't want to see the pictures...which are really just like teasers for the novel, not spoilers, they don't have to scroll on the page, or they can focus just on the color ones.....

I'm really wavering on where I want that vote. The only thing keeping me from putting it in yes, is that I want to compromise for those that don't want the pictures in the same section for spoilers...but are they really that bad a spoiler???

IDK.....but i may be changing my vote again soon...haha, this poll is just way too close....how much do you want to bet someone will "make" a new account with a bogus email for voting yes or no? haha.....

anyway. that's that.