Time to talk style guidelines

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Krikit
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by Krikit »

Okay, I'm going to bring this up because I think it would actually be reasonable and interesting.

Horo speak. Or should I say:

Horo speake.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vivian.c/S ... deTyme.htm

Use this for a briefe overview so I don't have to spell it all out =) (ye isn't read as "ye" in old english, it's read as "thee." Y in old english and y in current english were read differently.)

Anyway, I know this doesn't solve Horo referring to herself with "wacchi" instead of "watashi," but what it does solve, at least in my opinion, is a way of showing that Horo's manner of speaking was older. The pronounciation is such that reading through it, one would have no trouble. There is no reason for needless pauses to interpret what "Mineth nameth be-ethet Horoeth." Instead, there is an alternative of using an older form of "written" english for certain words of Horo.

shop :arrow: shoppe
speak :arrow: speake
etc etc...

It might also be possible to change Horo's "My name is..." to "My naeme is..." Though I'm still trying to figure out how to make it older....no real luck on refering to oneselfe.

However, I think it works out very well in the long run, modifying parts of Horo's dialogues to appear older as written, even while when pronounced, they are like the same.

What do you guys think of doing this?
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BASS in SPACE
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by BASS in SPACE »

Personally I think a TL note at the beginning or end of each novel telling readers that Horo uses a formal/older form of speech will be sufficient. Some readers may find the new format rather distracting. I myself am currently undecided, I'd have to see a sample paragraph or something to say outright which format I prefer. But if you want to do it then well...You're the editor so go ahead :p
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by Krikit »

Hmmm....okay what I'm going to do then is re-type out the prologue, as Horo is technically speaking through the whole thing.....just to show it in format. Then I will put it under the original prologue.

EDIT: I decided to forgo the prologue and just do a bit of chapter 1. Here is the text from Chapter 1, from when Horo comes in, to a bit later, so you can get the feel for how it would look.
"Auuoooooooooooooooooo~"

A great fear gripped Lawrence's heart, as if a sudden wind had just come and taken his body away.

The howl was used by a wolf or a dog to call for its companions; a prelude in preparation for an attack on the humans.

It was a real wolf's howl, not the one imitated by Yarei that Lawrence had heard earlier on. He jumped back in shock, and the piece of dried meat in his mouth fell to the ground. Feelings of fear suddenly filled Lawrence after that.

The silhouette of the girl, enveloped by the moonlight, the ears on her head; those animal ears.

"......ooh, what a beauteful moon, do you have any wine?"

The girl concluded her howling, and grinned at him. Her voice made Lawrence come back to his senses. What was in front of him, however, wasn't a wolf or a dog. Rather, it was a beautiful girl who possessed their ears.

"No. Besides, who are you anyway? Why are you sleeping on my cart? Surely you didn't run away because you'd be sold to the city otherwise, did you?"

Lawrence tried his best to put on a harsh expression, yet the girl showed no reaction at all.

"What is this, no wine? That piece of food……oyo, what a waste."

The girl said so lazily, and raised her small nose to smell around. When it looked like she had found the dried meat that Lawrence had bitten on earlier, she picked it up from the goods platform and put it into her mouth. As she bit into the meat, Lawrence saw the two sharp canines that resided in her mouth.

"You couldn't possibly be a possessing demon, could you?"

Lawrence put his hand on the silver dagger that was fastened around his waist as he said so.

Because of the changing value of money, traveling merchants would usually change the money they earned for a valuable object to bring around with them. The silver dagger was the most popular item, as silver was considered a godly metal, and it was said to be able to banish demons and monsters.

The girl was at first taken aback by Lawrence's words, but she burst into peals of laughter shortly after:

"Hahahahaha. Me, a demon?"

Her laughter was so cute and irresistible, and the meat in her mouth was about to fall off. The two sharp canines that showed looked rather charming now. Yet, because of her attractiveness, Lawrence felt like he was being mocked, and thus became rather angry.

"Hey! What's there to laugh at?"

"Of course it is funny. It's the fierst time I have been called a demon."

As the girl continued to laugh, she picked up the dried meat off the ground and once again put it into her mouth. One could be sure that she was not a normal human, as she had those sharp canines and strange ears.

"Who are you?"[[Image:Okami_037.jpg|thumb]]

"Are youe asking me?"

"Well who else is there other than you!"

"That horse."

"......"

Lawrence pulled out the dagger, the girl's smile was wiped off her face instantly, and she squinted her amber eyes, which had a bit of red in them.

"Who the hell are you?"

"What manners, daring to point a daggere at me."

"What did you say?"

"Hm? Oh right, I managed to escape. My apologies, I forgot all about it."

A smile reappeared on the girl's face after she said so. Her innocent and naive smiling face was too cute for words.

Lawrence was not going to be bought over by that smile so easily, but he did feel that pointing a dagger at a girl was not what a man would do, so he kept it away.

"My naime is Horo, and I have not taken this form in quite awhile. Hm, it's still not too bad."

The girl was sizing herself up as she said this. Even though Lawrence did not completely understand what she said, the front portion was sufficient to set him thinking.

"Horo?"

"Mm, Horo. Good naime, no?"

Lawrence was familiar with the many countries he had gone to, and there was only one place he had heard of this name.

And it belonged to the god of harvest, who resided in the village of Pasroe he had just visited.

"What a coincidence, I also know someone called Horo."

This girl was pretty daring, to use a god's name as her own. However, this also indicated that she probably was one of the villagers there. Who knows, her parents might have hid her away at home because of her abnormally sharp canines. With this train of thought, it was not so hard now to imagine now why she ran away from home.

Lawrence had heard of such abnormal births now and then. The people would say that when these children were born, the demons or monsters would possess their bodies. If the church got wind of them, the whole family would very likely be persecuted as satanics, and would be burnt at the stake. Therefore, these children would either spend their entire life at home, or be left to die deep in the mountains. This was the first time Lawrence had seen such a person, and he had even thought they would look like extremely hideous monsters. However, just by looking at the girl's forward appearance, he would not be surprised if she was really a goddess.

"Oh, youe know someone with the same naime as me? Wherever does that person come from?"

Horo, who was continuously chewing at the dried meat all this time, did not look in anyway a liar. However, Lawrence felt that after so many years of being locked up in her home, it would not be impossible if she misled herself into thinking she was a god anyway.

"That's the name of the god of harvest who resides nearby. Are you a god?"

Horo, bathed under the moonlight, showed a perplexed expression when Lawrence had asked that question, and then reverted to her smiling face again.

"Although I have been regarded for many years as one, and have furthermore been bound to this land, I am actually no great goddess. I am just myself. I am Horo."

Lawrence speculated that indeed, the girl had been locked up at home for her entire life, and as such, he could not help but feel a slight bit of pity for her.

"By that long a time, do you mean it was ever since you were born?"

"No."

The girl's answer was rather unexpected.

"My birthplace is in the lands far to the north."

"The north?"

"Mm. It is a world where everything sparkles silvery white, where the summers are shorte and the winters long."

Horo suddenly looked into the distance. She did not look at all like she was lying. It would be too natural an act to believe if she really was just playing out her "reminiscence" of her home to the north.

"Have you been there before?"

The girl questioned Lawrence. Although he felt that he was being somewhat countered, if he continued to go with this conversation, he would be able to tell immediately whether Horo was telling the truth, or just making up stories on the spot. Because Lawrence was most experienced in traveling about far in the north.

"The furthest I've been to is Arohitosutokku, where the cold winds blow all year round."

Upon hearing his words, Horo tilted her head slightly, and proceeded to reply:

"Oh, I have never hearde of it."

Lawrence was surprised at her answer. He had expected her to fake knowledge of the place.

"Then which places have you been to?"

"I have been to Yoitsu, what about it?"

Lawrence mumbled a soft "nothing", concealing his indecisiveness. He had heard about Yoitsu in old tales told in the inns of the north.

"You were born there?"

"Indeed. I do not know what has become of it now; I wonder how everyone is doing?"

Horo's shoulders slumped slightly after she said so, and her manner looked rather hollow. It was definitely not acting at all. However, Lawrence could not bring himself to believe her words.

Because in the tales, the town called Yoitsu had long been destroyed six hundred years ago.

"Can you still recall any other places?"

"Hm......it hass been centuries already......let me think, ah yes! There is another towne called Niyotsuhira. There are these unbelievable hot springs there, and I would go there often to have a nice soak.

Up till today, Niyotsuhira was still the hot springs resort of the north, and the aristocrats from other countries would go there for their holidays.

But there wouldn't be anyone in this area who would know of its existence.

Horo completely ignored Lawrence's train of thought; she spoke as if she was enjoying a warm soak in the warm waters of the hot springs for real. Horo's body suddenly pulled back, and she sneezed lightly.

Just then, Lawrence suddenly remembered the fact that Horo was completely naked.

"Whew......even thoughe I do not really hate this human form, it is simply too cold, there is barely any fur."

Horo giggled as she said so, and dug her way back into the pile of furs.

Looking at Horo's figure, Lawrence's mouth could not help but open. However, there still was one thing on his mind, so he turned to Horo, who was buried underneath the furs, and said:

"You've just been talking about this form and that form, what exactly do you mean?"

Upon hearing Lawrence's question, Horo popped her head out of the pile and replied:

"It is just as I have said. I have not appeared in this form in awhile, looks very cute right?"
I am using Michigan University's online "Olde English Dictionary" to double check and reference words.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/med/structure.html

What do you think so far? I'm working out some kinks and stuff....but I think at least a word should be done the olde way every once in a while, (maybe not as often as I am doing it), and a note at the beginning to remind people, just so it keeps the feel up.
Last edited by Krikit on Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Smidge204
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by Smidge204 »

Do you have any basis for inserting random "e"s into words for making them sound "old" ? For example; if you're going for Anglo-Saxon English then "Speak" becomes "Sprecan" (not "Speake"). Also you would properly be using "æ" (called an "ash") not "ae." Hold down the Alt key on your keyboard while you type "0230" on your number keypad (not the number row above the letter keys).

It's one thing to use an overly format and verbose way of writing, it's entirely another to use a language that nobody actually speaks anymore. Just turn it back a notch and you should be fine.

Edit: Okay, you posted the rerwite while I was writing this post... I'm afraid that's no longer English at all. I propose this new language be called "Krikit" both in honor of its inventor and the similarities with "Sanskrit" - another language nobody actually speaks. :)
=Smidge=
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by Krikit »

lol...^_^ sorry for my edits and stuff, I'm still workin the krinkits out =). What I was going for was...well, I keep calling it "olde" english, but it's really middle english, at least as I can understand it now =). (yes....I did make up a word by adding "e," :mrgreen: ) Though here is my take on "speak :arrow: speake"

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med ... d=MED42083

I used one of the many words they had listed for "speak," there's also "speke," etc.

Hmm....eh, I'm still working on it, but I think adding an occasional "remix" to middle or old english would be good. Even if it's just changing the occasional word from "dagger" to "daggere" http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med ... d=MED10475.

Hmm...I'm still working on it :mrgreen: maybe I should just make up Krikit Speak for Horo....muahahaha :twisted:

I could call it "Kreak".........

PS: I don't have a num-pad on my laptop..... :cry:
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Smidge204
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by Smidge204 »

Oh wait, this is already covered in the first post...
Ulrezaj wrote:
Horo's speech
In the novels she uses a slightly older form of speech with elements that can still be seen in okayama or oosaka dialects. Details aside, it's nothing as archaic as shakespearean english is for us. It's more akin to, perhaps, educated english in the early 1900s. Think Sherlock Holmes. Regardless, I don't see a need to overly differentiate her style. Her speech should reflect her character - aloof, impulsive at times, mildly patronizing.
So yeah... that was pretty straightforward.
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by TheGiftedMonkey »

Haha I'm not sure what to think about the addition of letters to the words. It would definitely confuse newer readers. Plus when reading it, it doesn't sound any different. It just looks misspelled. Let's just get it over with and give her a Brooklyn accent! 8)
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by Krikit »

sigh...as much as I want to give something to Horo's way of talking, it really seems english isn't the best language for digging up understandable past speech ^_^. I guess it's fine the way it is then, that is with the guidelines. Aloof, impulsive...etc...sigh. Ah well. I guess it's settled for no contractions, though it doesn't seem like that makes it sound any older. Aloof, impulsive...just the style of words and organization is what it'll be....but c'mon, doesn't "tyme" look cooler than "time"?? ^_^
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BASS in SPACE
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by BASS in SPACE »

Yeah i think it's best to keep it the way it is. Maybe the occasional change here and there, but the frequency with which you applied the "remixes" was a little irritating...Sorry :oops: Readers should be able to come up with their own version of how Horo speaks after reading the guidelines. It's more fun that way anyway, instead of having one particular way sort of "forced" onto them/us. Haha I think "tyme" is way cooler than "time" and "daggere" though.
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Rectifier
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by Rectifier »

TheGiftedMonkey wrote:Let's just get it over with and give her a Brooklyn accent! 8)
No, absolutely not, GO BACK TO YOUR HOLE!


*ahem*

If you're doing a 19th century thing then its essentially the same as today's english, but with a more "proper" set of words. Such as, instead of "awesome" or "that's sweet!" it would more likely come out as "eureka!" or "astounding" or "incredible."
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by onizuka-gto »

Rectifier wrote:
TheGiftedMonkey wrote:Let's just get it over with and give her a Brooklyn accent! 8)
No, absolutely not, GO BACK TO YOUR HOLE!


*ahem*

If you're doing a 19th century thing then its essentially the same as today's english, but with a more "proper" set of words. Such as, instead of "awesome" or "that's sweet!" it would more likely come out as "eureka!" or "astounding" or "incredible."

...or "marvellous!" or "terrific" or "astonishing" or "wondrous" or "splendid" or...etc etc etc.... :roll:
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by jeromemmm »

*passing by...*

(me just read the whole page. nothing to add)
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Krikit
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by Krikit »

Hmmm...okay, let's turn Horo into Sherlock Holmes ^_^

We all know people from Britain are detectives inside....^_^

Then again, it seems we're just keeping it normal for now, and we'll let people know that she just speaks differently. I can go with that. Bloody Brilliant!
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AMetroid
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Re: Time to talk style guidelines

Post by AMetroid »

I think that a note about her speaking style and vocabulary would do well enough to allow readers to give Horo here proper voice. I think going with an anachronistic word choice will just pull readers out of the story as they try to figure out what the word is, if they don't just think you misspelled it.

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