Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

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What is the best option considering the use of the illustration gallery?

Poll ended at Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:40 am

"I agree, Place images on one page altogether, like in ZnT and Toradora"
21
43%
"I agree, Use single page, but colour/covers and B&W inlines should be clearly segregated"
3
6%
"I disagree, Make two pages: one for covers and another for B&W inlines"
7
14%
"I disagree, Use gallery for covers and chapters for inlines only, like in SHnY"
18
37%
 
Total votes: 49

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Krikit
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by Krikit »

I can't answer for him, but it seems that way. So I guess this thread is kinda over for 2 weeks. Maybe that will give us more time for writing a proposal without loopholes or problems :mrgreen: . But yeah, so we've just go to accept it and move on. Ah well :)

See ya'll in 2 weeks I guess
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by Darknemo2000 »

I do not see why there should be a new revoting.

This voting is fully alright, there is no need to re-vote again or wait for two week waiting period.

Oni made a mistake by thinking about double voting when there could not be any double voting at all. Because those users gave vote in non existing thread.

The results of this poll are correct the only thing that is wrong is the counting system that oni used, but the point is - it had no effect on the voting itself so there is no need to vote again, we just need to change the way the counting was - in other words not to subtract those 13 votes.

Oni, your own statement about only needing 7 votes is contradiction if you have planned to substract those votes.

Basically, imagine the situation where we would have gotten only 7 additional votes.

There will be 20 votes all together, yet if you were to substract the 13 votes from it there will be only 7 votes left instead of 20 meaning that the voting didnt get the needed amount of votes.

You cannot place these 13 votes and say they voted but did not chose any option. There are only 4 options and if they are counted in then they have to be for one or other option.

In other words your mention of the 7 votes needed basically take away the possibility of substraction from you since you cannot substract the votes of the option they chose but still say that those votes were present as simply they have to be part of one or another option to be present.

In any case, there is no need of revoting or waiting periods. Oni just needs to correct his voting calculation.

It might have needed a re-voting if the rules that you announced would have taken an affect on the voting results. Unlike in my first poll, where the lack of options did affected the poll results. In this case the actual voting is still fully legitimate and the only thing that needs to be corrected is GTO's arithmetics.

You cannot cancel the results just because you made a mistake in counting. The rule was misunderstood by all and had no effect in voting at all.

Thus, I am against canceling the voting, unless Oni can give a proof that the calculation of the results affected the voting itself. If you can't , then you cannot count the voting itself illegal and cancel it. The mistake concerns the counting of the results but not the voting process itself.

In voting itself, in real life, there usually are some miscalculations from time to time, but as long as they are not big the voting is not canceled and restart from new (well mostly due to financial expenses, but also due to the fair of not collected the required vote quota). Imagine one of the voting counters made a mistake. Because of that the voting itself is not canceled, only the mistake in handling a results is corrected. You should try to avoid cancelling the votes and issuing another voting as much as possible unless there is an absolute necessity (the voting itself was bad thus the results were effected).

Unless Oni can point out necessity by showing that the voting process was effected by his miscalculation concerning handling the results, he cannot cancel the voting results, or else it will be deemed to be illegal.

Otherwise we would create a a possibility of precedent of abusing ones powers - I do not like a result, so I find one mistake (which is actually minor, as in - had no effect on voting itself) within the rules and then cancel all of the voting and wait for another re-vote. If another re-vote does not please me again, I again find another minor mistakes )minor mistakes always exist within the rules, ar at least double meaning situations) cancel it and do it so until I get the results I wanted.

The first poll, started by me, was incorrect because the voting bulletin itself was damaged (did not give enough voting options which effected the voting itself), but in the second case you cannot legally cancel the voting results unless you have proof that the voting itself was effected by the miscalculation in the rules.
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by TheGiftedMonkey »

Information from Big Boss has come in. Closing the thread until Oni, Smidge, and I go over the data. Bear with everyone. :wink:
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Smidge204
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by Smidge204 »

Unfortunately the data I asked for is useless because he removed several fields from the query. A simple list of who voted for what is not going to tell us anything we didn't already know.

=Smidge=
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by onizuka-gto »

Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in for today's Q&A session over this issue.


I have a number of questions to answer via p.m. by a number of members, but mostly Darknemo.

*wave to Darknemo*


To answer one of your more urgent questions:

(1)
I am no going to cancel this vote. contray to what you may or may not of heard, i did not once mention that I was going to rule this poll as invalid and therefore call for a re-vote.

(2)
I understand that the problem with this poll result was the method I used to calculate the votes.

This is a fact.

But understand I will not, in fact cannot, simply disregard the method i used in this poll and let the raw results stand by itself.

This is because it is specifically mentioned in the voting rules.

Breaking even one of te voting rules will effectively break the meaning of them.

You might say, "oh, but it;s just this once! this is because it's the REAL results! so its ok!"

what's next? Should I choose to break another of the voting rules and choose not to enforce them?

when will the infraction stop?

No.

please do not ask me to break the voting rules. I will not.


In another matter i have seen the raw data that TGM has sent to me with the Id of all the voters.

interesting.

if only we had this data before, in the first poll, i could justify calculating the results from them and make a fair decision over this matter.

However that is in the past and this is now.

It makes no more difference.

The results of this poll stands.

If you wish to challenge this decision, you will have to wait two weeks.

Thank you.

p.s: Darknemo no more p.m. please if you are that concerned about this, please wait until i put up the generic voting policy for review. I think you will have some interesting insight that might make it better.


Edit:

TGM has also brought ot my attention of another issue that may have cause confusion, specifically to the voting rule below:
The above votes will be counted in the new poll and at the end will be subtracted from the total for each given option unless notified

The problem with this, is that it is ambiguous. It COULD mean all the votes from the previous poll, or it COULD mean the 13 specific votes I mention in that same post.

The reality is that both options are equally valid it could be one or other or both.

The confusion i gather is that some of you were expecting the other option. i.e. "all the votes from the previous poll"

By adding only the 13 mentioned votes. I fulfil the two aspects of that voting rule.

1) Vote(s) from the previous poll will affect the results of the new poll

2) The vote(s) from the previous poll will be Subtract from the new poll to gain a final result


Hence, I believe I did not break this voting rule and have honoured it to the best of my ability.
Last edited by onizuka-gto on Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Reason: Add new Answer to new question
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Nerevarine
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by Nerevarine »

can i post now? woot! i can

ok, enough dancing around, because i am very slow and hard to understand other people.

which one is going to be implemented: choice one (which won), choice 4 (which well....yeah), or neither.
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by Dan »

lol Things are moving slower on here than at the legislative meetings of my residence hall student council.
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by Darknemo2000 »

The problem is that your rule had no effect on the voting but only to the actual handling of the results. Now if we all agree that taking away the 13 votes of the members was wrong then the error in the rule has to be corrected.

There is an error in the rules which luckily had not effected the voting (no one even understood that rule of yours, to tell the truth). But you can't let the same error based results run. You have to re-calculate the voting again without the substraction of the votes or with substraction but then re-adding them. Which will leave us with the results of the poll that we see directly.

You are messing up two terms - breaking the rules and correcting the error within the rules. They are not the same. Breaking a rule is always bad, but correcting the error in rule if it is agreed to be bad, is not a bad things, specially if this rule takes effect only upon the calculation and not the voting.

If you leave things to be the way you have initially announced (calling a 4th option a winner because you substracted more votes from the first option) then you are violating your first aspect. because this way the 13 votes do not have ANY effect on this poll as they are deleted.

As I explained before - you cannot consider them the votes that did not vote for any of the options, and if you delete them - they are not making any effect on the new poll, while their presence also does not take any effect since if they are counted in general numbers of the poll then they must have one or the other opinion of the poll chosen.

To explain it better"

13

Lookie, it has an effect on the current poll, you are not violating the first aspect but you are violating the second (error based) aspect of the rule

13-13=0

Lookie, it doesn't have an effect on the current poll, you are violating your first aspect, but fulfilling the second.

The only way to escape this double meaning situation is for you to take away those 13 votes and then add them again leaving the result that the first option won, while the fourth had 3 vote deficit.

So then it would be

13-13+13=13

Lookie, with first action (-) you fulfilled the second aspect, and with second action (+) you fulfilled the first.

It leaves the results the way they currently stand (with a first choice being a winner, and 4th choice a close second).

i also do not understand your words Oni - are you saying that you are willing to keep a first results based on error and not correct an error in the rules, or are you willing to correct the error in the rules?

I hope you yourself understand that error doesn't mean anything good, nor that correcting an error mean that you are breaking a rule.
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by salv87 »

The quickest way I see now to solve this problem (without waiting 6 weeks) would be to create a new poll concerning these 13 votes.. with the question going smth like "should they be subtracted". An reducind the duration to say 2 weeks, an minimum to say 15 votes.. But that would be bureaucracy in my oppinion.. on the other hand it would help resolve the issue faster.. See it as smth like a petition..

On the other hand if we look at the counting method oni used.. imagine it in real life..
President elections..
people are counting the votes of the 2nd round of voting..
"Oh look, this candidate got 43% of in the first round, and now he got 65%..
well.. since the same people voted 65-43=22.. So the end result is 22%. Nope he didn't become president.."
I wonder what they would do.. wait and start a new poll, or recount..
I would say recount since the voting was ok. And they are NOT braking any rules.


That's how it looks from my point of view.

I actually kinda agree, that the rules contradict themselves.. On one hand you closed the first poll, making it inactive, then you either don't count the votes at all, or count them normally.

well.. that's what I think.
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by Const2k »

onizuka-gto wrote:The results of this poll stands.
Does that mean that first option won by majority rule (21-3-7-18) or that forth one did by some [...] way?

P.S. oni, try to use simple and unambiguous phrases in important occasions, please.
Next time, (un)like this one, misunderstanding can make harm to process...
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by Krikit »

Wiki rules. Let's make a poll about his polls 13 votes from the previous poll. That way, if we agree on something, you won't be seen as having "disregarded" the rules. You are upholding them, and the right of the wiki to change and modify and grow with knowledge and experience.

Poll idea rules. Then you will maintain your stance of keeping the rules, while the new vote decides the options for this vote.

Let the poll be open for the two week cooldown period for this forum. then, at the end of that poll, which we would have started the new poll, we will have an answer, and maybe a new poll, and another 4 weeks is unnecessary.

YOU get to KEEP your Standing as never backing down on your word, and we get what we want ^_^, as members of the community.

Vote on the 13 Votes, (idea copyright: salv ^_^)

who's with us!

So far:

Salv
Krikit (that's two, need some more ^_^)
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by Smidge204 »

No. This is f***ing retarded. No voting on having a vote to see if we count votes. This needs to stop.

Either Oni needs to put his foot down, tell everyone to E.A.B.O.D. and declare the verdict is concrete, or we start all over from scratch. It absolutely must be a clean cut decision either way or this will never end.

End it.
=Smidge=
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by Krikit »

well, we're just spouting random stuff. Oni already put his foot down.

The vote is done. In two weeks, via wiki rules, we will raise this issue again.

but now, whenever there is a good argument, we'll put it up, in the off chance it bears fruit ^_^.

it may be f***ing retarded, but we're sore losers ^_^. Plus there's no way you can agree it was worded in a way where it could be understood either. Oni has said he learned from it. Yay. So in 2 weeks, it'll be a straight vote, no problems.
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by TheGiftedMonkey »

Spoiler! :
Thread closed. This poll is concluded with the 4th Option being the winner. A new poll covering this issue maybe be made on Tuesday, September 23. Just bear with until then. :wink:
Decision changed.
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Re: Poll: Illustration Gallery -FINAL VOTE-

Post by onizuka-gto »

After consultation from other B-T staff members and taking a step back from this situation,
I officially announce that I have reconsider the results of this poll and that I declare Option 01 the Winner with immediate effect as stated.

Congratulations for beating the "man" and making Stalin weep in his grave...which is probably full of burning petroleum and revengeful cannibal political enemies who will happily munch on his bollocks for all Eternity. Which incidentally, I dreamt about just a few days ago. spooky.

Nothing like the smell of burning dictator in the morning. D:
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