Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

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duncan
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by duncan »

ShadowZeroHeart wrote: Law cannot affect past events. For example, if a name is not copyrighted yet, you can use it. Once it is copyrighted, that doesnt mean that they can sue you for having used that name before. Plagiarism is impossible if our text is significantly different and if we locked it once the official release is out. Yes, perhaps it doesnt truly prevent B-T from all charges, but at least it is some sort of safety precaution?

I didnt make that many points about licensing i think? ^^"
I would say that it is best for volume 2 to be translated, but i cannot and will not force anything onto others. The reason I am unsure whether to support your decision is because, as Oni mentioned, it is by chapter basis. So I am worried about when the volume may be released. Since if you stopped half-way or take too long, it must end there and then, unless some other translator take note and continue the work =X

No offense to you at that?
Don't misunderstand me- I didn't take offense at your previous post, and I'm not offended by this one. I sometimes come across a bit sharper than I mean to- it's actually a natural consequence of the fact that I'm hard to offend, short of personal remarks, so I tend to assume others have as thick a skin. My fault, certainly.

When it comes to the other thread- well I just think you might go back and read it again, as I don't want to quote you out of context. You certainly seemed, to me, to be arguing that volume 2 ought to be translated as quickly as possible, in that thread. It's certainly possible that I read you wrong.

Anyway, I don't mean to charge into this thread like a bull into a china shop, and I wasn't suggesting that I would take over volume 2 and do it singlehandedly. I just noticed that no one has been doing it (understandable, since most people are interested in what happens _after_ the anime), so I thought it would be a good place to start. I'd really rather not try to translate a sequel without having first read the books before it. But I also wouldn't want to do anything to slow down the efforts of people better able to translate volume 2 quickly- that's why I wanted to get a good look at it before signing up for a chapter. I suspect that S+W is right at the edge of my ability, if not a bit past it. But it seems like there's not a really skilled J->E translator working on it right now anyway (no offense intended if there is one and I missed that fact), so I might be able to both serve my interests and help with the translation.

And thank you for the welcome, GiftedMonkey (aren't we all ;).) Like I said, S+W might be a bit beyond me, what with all the made-up terms, etc. All I can do is take a look and see what I can do with it. I won't sign up for a chapter until I have successfully translated a couple of pages (for myself), at least, just so I can be sure I can handle the S+W novels before making a commitment I can't keep.

EDIT: About the law and past events... licensing and availability have nothing to do with whether or not you are infringing. A novel published in Japan is protected in any nation signatory to the Berne convention, and that protection extends to derivative works. Translations certainly qualify as derivative works. That's why I said it didn't make sense to me legally- it makes sense to me in other respects. A publishing house might be willing to put up with an amateur translation under the theory that it gets enough people interested that they will buy the professional translation when it becomes available. This seems to work, to some degree, even with anime, and anime is a _lot_ more expensive than a paperback, while fansubs are a lot closer to professional quality than fan translations of novels- most of the value of anime is in the raw after all. If the wiki gets retrospectively edited to the point that it basically provides the professional translation Baka will probably get some cease and desist letters. I assume that's why Baka locks on availability rather than license. Not an issue of law, but an issue of what will actually make a publisher annoyed enough to send the letters.
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ShadowZeroHeart
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

Not too sure about law... But anyway we are trying to prevent the possibility of people posting the translated text by the official publishers, so hopefully they wont be so annoyed? =X

And yes, personally i support the idea of doing up volume 2, i dont want something like SnS to happen...

And i would suggest to not just look at the text, but maybe take a look at the current translations too if you havent? I heard that the way Horo addresses everyone is slightly different from normal. So it is best to take a look as a reference.
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Krikit
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by Krikit »

Duncan, that was one of the first times I've seen such a long, well thought out, mature post, with all points noted. People like me usually rule the forums with a rubber scepter, creating mischief and mayhem in the English structure here. I am an editor for Spice and Wolf, and a Wanna-Be Translator. However, I have started translating PuiPui!, as the writing style is of a much, much easier nature. Not that Spice and Wolf is grammatically difficult, it is just that it's vocabulary is far beyond me at the moment. (Consider me JLPT 4 :shock: ) So, here is the deal:

1) Barbsicle is Translating Volume 1. However, he is having computer troubles, as well as heavy exam studies, and University goals. So his translations are on hiatus.

2) Nobody is translating Volume 2.

3) Judgment Finished Volume 3.

4) Judgment is on Volume 4.

6) The novels have a noted, tentative release date of December, 2009. So volume two won't be released until either Spring of Summer, of 2010. I think that's plenty of time.

7) We want all the help we can get. :D , So jump on board, ask away, and we'll do what we can to get you situated here.

As for wiki format, pretty much all you need to do is type the translated text into any text editor of your choice. Then, when you have XX% translated, you can go to the wiki page for the chapter, and edit it. Then Just CTRL + V, and your done. Usually, people will update at page breaks in the text. But it's up to you.

I for one, am excited to see another person wanting to help become a S&W translator, and welcome you aboard the cart, so to speak.
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ShadowZeroHeart
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

@@ WOW
Volume 2 is untouched? It is gonna be hard work at this rate then =X
I always thought vol 1 is completed and vol 2 being worked upon =X guess i am wrong...

And good luck with translation, if you do start it.
If you need help, feel free to ask for help.
(not that i provide any regarding japanese texts)
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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barbsicle
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by barbsicle »

@Shadow:
It won't really be hard work once I get back. Haha. Just alot of problems and I have to stall but I'm putting in 1000% (no I did not mistype a "Zero" there) once I am back and running. (oh and I haven't forgotten about helping you out either)

@duncan:
I suppose you have read my pm, just note that it doesn't matter how hard the text might be, it's whether you want to give it a shot. We'll be behind you all the way if you want to give Volume 2 a shot (I'll be helping you to once I catch up) and if you choose another project (go help seaghyn with his PuiPui I'm sure he needs help haha, jks seaghyn.) you're still part of the big family and we'll always welcome you back to S&W if you feel up for the job. Furthermore you're the only one who showed interest in my call to arms so we'll save your spot if you choose otherwise. Either way we respect your decision and in the end it's up to you. So go for it!

@seaghyn:
like i've said in the other thread, i'll be looking forward to your help (i'll be needing it badly actually). hopefully as a new year's gift to the whole community we can put out an edited volume 1 out in wiki, pdf and EBOOK. sorry to hold all you guys up, but it's all a matter of time and i'll be back.


So yeah, I'll see you guys around soon. Pardon my inactiveness.

Barbs
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ShadowZeroHeart
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

barbsicle wrote:@Shadow:
It won't really be hard work once I get back. Haha. Just alot of problems and I have to stall but I'm putting in 1000% (no I did not mistype a "Zero" there) once I am back and running. (oh and I haven't forgotten about helping you out either)

@duncan:
I suppose you have read my pm, just note that it doesn't matter how hard the text might be, it's whether you want to give it a shot. We'll be behind you all the way if you want to give Volume 2 a shot (I'll be helping you to once I catch up) and if you choose another project (go help seaghyn with his PuiPui I'm sure he needs help haha, jks seaghyn.) you're still part of the big family and we'll always welcome you back to S&W if you feel up for the job. Furthermore you're the only one who showed interest in my call to arms so we'll save your spot if you choose otherwise. Either way we respect your decision and in the end it's up to you. So go for it!
Barbs, no worries, no one blames you for anything!
Anyways, dont worry about my side, I am pretty fine with what I do now, slow as i may be, at least i can cope with everything to some extent... My tests for the moment are over, get my homework done, and back to translation i go!

@duncan. If you need help when you give it a shot, just post questions. Whoever can help will help. I will refer to chinese text, if that helps that is. But if you ONLY want Japanese help, just say so, i wont touch it then =X

And as i mentioned in the other thread. If you guys seriously cant seem to finish the translation before the volume is released officially, holler, i can put my current projects on hold for a moment and try to buy you guys some time. Just that my quality of work will be way lower than any of yours ^^"
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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duncan
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by duncan »

Krikit wrote:Duncan, that was one of the first times I've seen such a long, well thought out, mature post, with all points noted. People like me usually rule the forums with a rubber scepter, creating mischief and mayhem in the English structure here. I am an editor for Spice and Wolf, and a Wanna-Be Translator.


Thanks for the kind words- I'm afraid you've misoverestimated me though. You caught me on a good day. But I guess I'll have to try to live up to that now. I'm old enough that I ought to at least pretend to be mature, so maybe it will be good for me ;).
Krikit wrote:However, I have started translating PuiPui!, as the writing style is of a much, much easier nature. Not that Spice and Wolf is grammatically difficult, it is just that it's vocabulary is far beyond me at the moment. (Consider me JLPT 4 :shock: )


I have to admit that I have no idea what PuiPui! is, though it sounds like fun. If you translate a little bit every day you get better pretty fast. Give it a few months and you'll run rings around me, though that won't be much of an achievement, I'm afraid.
Krikit wrote: Usually, people will update at page breaks in the text. But it's up to you.
That sounds reasonable- I guess I'll see how it goes though.
Krikit wrote:I for one, am excited to see another person wanting to help become a S&W translator, and welcome you aboard the cart, so to speak.
I'm looking forward to working on this too. I'm just a little wolf inside a girl, after all... no, wait... that's not right at all. I mean, I'm looking forward to working on this with you.
ShadowZeroHeart wrote:Not too sure about law... But anyway we are trying to prevent the possibility of people posting the translated text by the official publishers, so hopefully they wont be so annoyed? =X

And i would suggest to not just look at the text, but maybe take a look at the current translations too if you havent? I heard that the way Horo addresses everyone is slightly different from normal. So it is best to take a look as a reference.
I'm not sure if that first sentence is a question or an answer. I am just guessing about Baka's policies, but I'd guess that they are meant to avoid annoying publishers to the degree that they send letters. If I were publishing the S+W novels I would welcome what Baka is doing here- it's not like there would be any demand at all in the US for these books if it weren't for fansubs. As long as the Baka translations aren't _too_ good a smart publisher (yes, I know, an oxymoron) ought to welcome fan activity around the books.

I have been looking at the translation so far, though I've only added a small note to the prologue page so far. I'll want to read as much as I can of the first volume before messing with the second. As for Horo's speech- let's remember that this is a light novel. It's aimed at young semi-literate Japanese. Young semi-literate Japanese are probably at the level of US Harvard grads, but they are still not likely to want to wade through the Japanese equivalent of Chaucerian English. I think a little goes a long way when it comes to antiquing dialogue, and my impression is that the author of these books felt the same way- but I really need to finish reading the first book before I say anything about that.

I notice that while I've been composing this. barbsicle posted. I did get your PM, and I will return it, soon. I was going to last night, but I wound up staying up late drinking beer with a friend. When I tried to reply to you, and to this thread, all I could type was garble, so I thought that responding today would be the better part of valor. Tbh, I'm still not sure if I am typing pure garble or not ;). But I definitely appreciate the welcome, and I hope I can contribute something useful to the translation. I stiil have no idea what PuiPui! is, but I think I might be OK with that ;).
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duncan
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by duncan »

ShadowZeroHeart wrote:I will refer to chinese text, if that helps that is. But if you ONLY want Japanese help, just say so, i wont touch it then =X
I think I'll be willing to take any help I can get. Ni shi Zhongguoren ma? Wo zai daxue de shihou wo xue le liangnian Zhongwen. Hen chang shijian wo mei shuo Zhongwen, suoyi wo wang le hen duo, hen duo. Well, I hope that is readable, at least, though I'm sure the grammar is terrible- my Chinese is about 10 years old now. I have to get IMEs set up on this machine- I can't type hanzi or kanji/kana on it at the moment.
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salv87
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by salv87 »

for knowing both Jap. and chinese you get a dohnut.. a virtual, but it should serve it's cause ^_^

anyway, I agree with Krikit, welcome to the club, the more the merrier.. And if you decide to dedicate yourself to translations, then welcome even more ^_^
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by judgment26 »

I realize that I'm the only one on the S&W team who hasn't said a thing yet, and my apologies for that, duncan.:P

Anyway, happy to have you onboard, and you working on Vol. 2 would be perfect. I don't have much to add to what's already been said, except to remind you not to put too much pressure on yourself. Just work at your own pace. Barbs will join you on Vol. 2 once he's done with Vol. 1, and depending on the circumstances, I may put my own progress temporarily on hold and jump in to help at some point as well. If you have any questions, don't hesistate to ask either here or in the A-S forum.

And most importantly, have fun! :D

Edit: Oh, and, although you were addressing someone else....wo shi Taiwan ren, bu guo wo kan de dong pinyin, er ni de pinyin fei chang biao zhun, bu yong dan xin!^_^
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

zzz... dotz...
please dont do pin yin here...
firstly, this is not alternate language forums, secondly, spare a thought for those who doesnt understand chinese...
thirdly, its harder to read pin yin, either type the actual chinese text or type in english please...
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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judgment26
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by judgment26 »

That's fine by me.;)
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duncan
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by duncan »

OK, sorry for the pinyin. I don't have a Chinese IME installed on this machine, but you're right that it's an English forum. I really have no business typing Chinese anyway, pinyin or characters- I'll just wind up embarrassing myself ;). It might not have been too much a stretch to say that I spoke Chinese 10 years ago (for some very loose definition of speak), but it would be a big one to say that now. I was just trying to give a bit of a shout-out to the Chinese translators on the project, but I guess it fell a bit flat. Sorry about that.

Thanks for the welcome judgment, nice to meet you. I won't put too much pressure on myself- the truth is that the main reason I want to give this a shot is to improve my Japanese. I kind of stopped working on it about a year or so ago, but I've been meaning to get back to it. I'm in a kind of limbo with it right now- I'm past the level of basic undergrad texts, but I'm still a long way from fluent. I feel like what I need is one big push to get to the point where I can read reasonably freely without having to use a dictionary constantly. Translating something a bit above my level seems like the best way to get there. I actually stumbled on this site just through searching for some electronic texts to work with. So I'll approach this in a "my pace" kind of way.

That said, I've been looking at the beginning of the second book, and I am actually getting pretty excited about working on it- seems like it will be fun. I can't promise to move all that fast with it, but I do hope that I'll be able to turn out a reliable trickle of text. I need to do some computer setup atm... I've moved since I last did much in Japanese, and I'm having a hard time finding some of my software (sadly including my XP disc, and also my outrageously pricey electronic Green Goddess.) But they'll turn up eventually, or I'll get my laptop working, so I hope to be able to start trickling the text out sometime next week.
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

Whats a "Green Goddess"?
And i am just wondering, where are you from duncan?
gung-ho isnt really a popular phrase to use is it? and a tri-lingual of english, japanese and chinese...

Anyways, that aside, i am guessing that there are translators who are indeed doing translations in hopes of improving their languages. I, for one, had that as a secondary objective at first, but now it seems both a positive effect and an important factor. Naturally, our work are usually not all that fluent, or else we wont be needing editors dont you think?

As for what PuiPui is, it is a novel that is being translated by Krikit. And it has a manga adaptation that is being translated for the joy of it. The thread should still be in the future project suggestions should you be interested to find out more about it.

There is no major rush, except that we hope to finish the volumes before they are officially published?

And I think for a major challenge, SnS is a good end-of-year test ^^" the language inside seems awfully tough for a LIGHT novel.
Man, when will good translators start falling off from the sky?
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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duncan
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Re: Call To Arms: Japanese Translators/Editors

Post by duncan »

ShadowZeroHeart wrote:Whats a "Green Goddess"?
And i am just wondering, where are you from duncan?
gung-ho isnt really a popular phrase to use is it? and a tri-lingual of english, japanese and chinese...

Anyways, that aside, i am guessing that there are translators who are indeed doing translations in hopes of improving their languages. I, for one, had that as a secondary objective at first, but now it seems both a positive effect and an important factor. Naturally, our work are usually not all that fluent, or else we wont be needing editors dont you think?

As for what PuiPui is, it is a novel that is being translated by Krikit. And it has a manga adaptation that is being translated for the joy of it. The thread should still be in the future project suggestions should you be interested to find out more about it.

There is no major rush, except that we hope to finish the volumes before they are officially published?

And I think for a major challenge, SnS is a good end-of-year test ^^" the language inside seems awfully tough for a LIGHT novel.
Man, when will good translators start falling off from the sky?
"The Green Goddess" is an affectionate name for Kenkyuusha's most comprehensive J->E dictionary. I think most people consider it to be the best J->E dictionary there is- while I appreciate Jim Breen's free dictionary, the Goddess is on a completely different level. I have some comprehensive J->J dictionaries too, but the Goddess is what I use, most of the time. If I have to go to the J->J dictionaries I still need the Goddess to understand them ;).It's a bit pricey, though. You can pick up the 4th edition for a bit over $100.00 USD, but the 5th edition is.. expensive. I think Kenkyuusha has started making an online version available for a fairly reasonable monthly fee- the advantage to that is that they are constantly adding new words to the online version, in particular new katakanaizations (I think I just made that word up, but I hope you know what I mean- I also hope Kenkyuusha will pick it up and katakanaize it, completing the cricle).

I mostly use my (Japanese market) electronic version, but it's a bit of a pain in that it only works under windows, and it requires you to have set your main language (for Windows) to Japanese. The downside to that is that most internationalized software winds up displaying in Japanese once you've set that setting. I learned a lot of katakana words due to that, because all of my software started displaying in Japanese. Note to software developers: include a language option rather than just using the default OS settings.

I consider myself to be from the States- I'm a US citizen, and I've lived in the US for most of my life. I was born in Vancouver (so I'm also a Canadian citizen), and I lived in French Quebec as a child. I don't know if "gung ho" is a common phrase these days. Like Horo, my speech patterns are a bit archaic. I'm certainly not trilingual in E-J-C. It might be fair to consider me trilingual, or at least bilingual, but only in European languages. My Japanese is getting better, but is still weak. My Chinese used to be passable, but I've forgotten it all now. I do intend to go back and relearn Chinese at some point- I've actually been considering doing a home-stay in China. But right now I'm focusing on Japanese. I'd like to eventually be fluent in Japanese, Chinese, and Korean, but that's a big undertaking. I need to focus on one, and Japanese is the logical choice because of the availability of media. I downloaded some mainland TV shows the other day and I have to admit that I could only understand one word in five... my Chinese has all but evaporated, I'm afraid.

SnS seems like it would be hard. I watched the first season of the anime, and a bit of the second. Talk about made-up words. Translating that from Japanese seems hard. Translating that to English from Chinese translated from Japanese seems... difficult to say the least. I remember that the first season talked a lot about "fuzetsu." I have no idea how to translate that to English.

As for editors- to be honest, and not that humble, my strength is a passable English prose style. I don't mean that I shouldn't be edited. I just mean that it's a lot easier to translate into your native language, and English is my native language. I'd certainly like to make translations that need only superficial edits. I don't promise to be able to do that, of course ;).

EDIT: Just to give you an idea of how comprehensive the Green Goddess is, I noticed that its Wikipedia entry notes that it includes the entry 「オブラデ・オブラダ」 「曲名」Ob-LA-Di Ob-La-Da). Yep- that Beatles song has an officially approved katakana form.
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