Translation Vocabulary

[Zyzzyva165]

People, I am pretty sick of encountering 说道 / 讲道 when translating and ‘said’ when editing. So I compiled a list of words which can possibly substitute that word. The words listed in a group do not mean that they have exactly the same meaning. (In fact, I am inclined to think that for most cases, they have distinctive meanings.) They are only of similar meanings. If you are not sure, consult a dictionary before using the word. Feel free to add to this inventory of words. (Hope it helps)

1. add / put in
2. admonish / scold / rebuke / reproach / blame
3. agree /consent
4. answer / reply
5. argue / reason / explain / relate
6. ask / query / demand
7. assure / promise
8. begin
9. blurt (out) / burst out / cry out
10. break off / trail off
11. comment / remark / note / quip / point out / speak out /
12. complain / grumble / mutter
13. conclude / end
14. conjecture / muse / surmise /
15. continue / go on / press on
16. counter / retort
17. cut in / interrupt
18. decide / resolve
19. declare / proclaim
20. disagree / protest / complain /
21. exclaim / shout / yell / holler / bellow / scream /
22. feel / sense / have the impression of / reckon
23. guess / speculate
24. hiss / spit
25. inquire / question / query
26. jeer / scorn / mock / sneer / needle
27. mumble / stammer / sputter / splutter
28. murmur / mutter / whisper
29. prompt
30. snap / speak irritably / snarl / roar / bark / growl
31. state / mention /
32. suggest / propose /
33. weep / wail / sob / wail


These words can be used, but informally. Example:

“I am not Mary,” she frowned. In proper English, it should be:

“I am not Mary,” she said with a frown.

So I am not sure if it is okay to use them. People (especially editors), please voice your opinions.

Others:
1. chuckle / laugh
2. frown
3. gasp
4. gloat
5. glower / scowl
6. grin
7. groan / moan
8. grimace
9. gulp
10. laugh / snigger / giggle
11. nod
12. pant
13. sigh
14. smirk

[ShadowZeroHeart]

coolz, sure, i will refer to this... there are quite a few of the words which i am not too familiar with though =X

begin does not seem to be same to the meaning right?

I have no idea on conjecture, will check dictionary later

Used cut in, but not sure if it is the right way... maybe if you have time, show examples of using them? =X
Though it IS too much to ask for

[Zyzzyva165]

Oh. You can use 'begin' to begin a long (maybe deep?) conversation, and 'end/conclude' to end the conversation.

Conjecture is to form an opinion; a (formal) alternative word for 'guess', but (according to what I've read so far) less 'guessive' than 'guess'. That means you are surer of your opinion if you 'conjecture', compared to when you ‘guess’.

You use 'cut in' to cut in a conversation between two (or more) people.

Nah. I don't think examples are needed. Just check the meaning and use it according to the situation. If it is inappropriate, the editors will edit it. Don't worry.

People, if you want to add other vocabs like inventories of idioms/ expressions/others, feel free to do so. This will benefit all of us.

[elkin]

Conjecture is when you form an opinion based on 'facts', but you might not be very certain of things, e.g. because the facts aren't solid enough.

Another word for 'cut in' would be to interrupt

Off the top of my head, another handful of words that might come in handy:
- proclaim
- exclaim
- shout, yell, holler
- grumble
- trail off
- hiss, spit

[Zyzzyva165]

Thanks elkin I've just edited my first post to include your ideas. If there is any more, just tell me and I'll add them...

[Zyzzyva165]

Adjectives

I discovered an interesting website pertaining to adjectives. If you encounter multiple adjectives and do not know which one’s first or last, then you can refer there.

Example (quite unlikely): A beautiful, big, square, antique, red, Chinese, wooden, touring car.

Not sure which one’s first or last? Refer to the Royal Order of Adjectives:

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/GRAMMAR/adjectives.htm

Scroll down to see the table.

[Zyzzyva165]

By the way, just to clarify. I am not out on war against ‘讲道’ / ‘说道’ / ‘said’. I studied a novel (Harry Potter 3) yesterday, noting what words they used after their dialogues. I found out that ‘said’ was used quite frequently, but plain ‘said’ is only used (if I am not wrong) 2 or 3 times in a row. [‘Plain’ as in without anything after the word. I’ll explain further…]

Usually, they used it with adverbs / extra details behind it. Examples:

…” he said earnestly.

…” she said in a quaking voice.

…” he said, looking scandalized.

…” she said, smiling.

…” he said, with a small laugh.

It is much better than:

“…” he said. “…” she said. “…” he said. “…” she said.

right? Maybe we can learn something here?

[Edit: I am not trying to imitate any novel. I did this because as translators and editors, I feel that we should present not only a grammatically correct script, but a novel instead. The ‘taste’ and style of a story must be present.]

[elkin]

'Said' is a rather neutral word that readers glance over and note. It's like a piece of blank paper. Too much and it gets dull, too little and the flow of the story starts faltering. So you need the right balance between said 'paper' and 'seasoning'. Generally I don't see Japanese authors using it very much-- just like in English, sometimes they just put in dialogue and nothing else

[duncan]

I'm going to disagree. "he said" is good precisely because it is dull. It just fades into the page after a while, and draws no notice to itself. Using constructs like "he said laughingly" is generally poor style, IMHO. If it's overdone (and it is very easy to overdo) the effect is comic.

[ShadowZeroHeart]

Basically it is a case-by-case situation.
So its really up to the translators and editors to decide what is the best for that sentence.

But having a vocabulary would definitely help when they are looking for better words/phrases to use in that given context.

[duncan]

Basically it is a case-by-case situation.
So its really up to the translators and editors to decide what is the best for that sentence.

But having a vocabulary would definitely help when they are looking for better words/phrases to use in that given context.

I suppose it's always a case-by-case situation, but things like "'...', he said laughingly" are almost always poor style, if not downright bad writing. Any book you pick up on writing dialogue will have a section, usually early on, warning you away from this sort of thing. There's even a whole genre of jokes based on this. "'Aha!', he said knowingly" is an example.

If you have to show business along with dialogue it's better to go with something like "Tom laughed. '....', he said." Or even better, "Tom laughed. '...' end_para." You don't have to attribute every piece of dialogue.

Here's a long link to a short article by Elmore Leonard: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A9679C8B63. I think Leonard is about the best writer of dialogue around these days, though your mileage may vary. Note that in his ten rules for writers "Never use a verb other than 'said' to carry dialogue" is number 3 and "Never use an adverb to modify the verb 'said'" is number 4. That's 20% of what he wants to tell you about how to write well, by the numbers.

The problem with providing spiffy lists like this is that people will want to try out any spiffy new thing they come across. I'm just sticking my oar in to point out that, IMNSH (in this case) O, it's almost always a bad idea to use any of these. But you're right that translators and editors will do what they think best- I'm certainly not in any position to tell anyone what to do. I do think that it is much more likely that people will err on the side of overusing this kind of thing than on the side of using it too little. Like Leonard, I'm not sure it is possible to use this device too little.

[ShadowZeroHeart]

In my opinion, translators still should try their best to follow actual text, even if it seems a little awkward. Losing its meaning to gain a "perfect script" may be meaningless, as it is similar to writing a story of your own based on the actual story... So i think we should leave it to the editors to come up with the best of reading materials for everyone ^^

[duncan]

In my opinion, translators still should try their best to follow actual text, even if it seems a little awkward. Losing its meaning to gain a "perfect script" may be meaningless, as it is similar to writing a story of your own based on the actual story... So i think we should leave it to the editors to come up with the best of reading materials for everyone ^^

That's true, but I think you have to balance other considerations with that. That's part of why translating is so hard, particularly when it comes to things people read for pleasure, like novels. I'd say that translating is harder, on a mechanical level, than original writing. You want to be as true to the source text as possible, while not producing something unreadable in English. I think that if you take something written in reasonable Japanese prose and render it in terrible English prose you have lost something important, even if you have kept every nuance of the original in a literal sense. Just to give an example: in Japanese it is normal to switch between the past and the "present" tense several times in a few paragraphs, even if what you're talking about... doesn't. That doesn't mean you should do the same in your J->E translation. If you're a brilliant writer in English you might find some way to get across some of the nuances, but chances are that you won't be able to without producing pure garble. It's generally better to pick a tense and stick with it in cases like that.

I think this is a similar case. It's more important to produce readable prose than it is to try, and inevitably fail, to reproduce every nuance in the original Japanese. At least when you're translating light novels- it might be different if you're translating the manual for a nuclear power plant, but I would certainly hope no one would employ me for that .

[Zyzzyva165]

Thanks for the advice, duncan.