Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by hobogunner »

My main weak point is the longer streak of just text it is, the more likely I am to convert to doing it word for word. :?

If it's around 10 words, and makes sense, I can generally get it easily.....as soon as it's a quote like the one above that feeds off of itself, my brain auto goes "lolwut. You know, these cigars smell really good right now....." and so my mind wonders, and I have to convince myself not to smoke. :lol:

I have realized over what I have translated if you try to do it word for word, you're hurting yourself, I generally get the romaji, write it down on a piece of paper, read it to myself (look up the words I don't know at all), read it again, look up every word, read it again, apply context, read it again, read it again, think about the particles / verb conjugations, read it again, then I generally know what it means. The hardest part is rephrasing it to me. I can know exactly what it says......but making it sensible in English just makes me hurt. The longer the sentence...the harder I think into it, which makes me think word for word, and not just relax and think of synonyms, etc, that make it make more sense.

I can't promise the above will make sense, but it gets the job done. I'm gonna start (after I pass out in about 3 hours, who knew 15 miles in one day would make your body hurt [this is the day after, I only did 3 today]? :roll: ) this Japanese lesson...thing....and probably have to unlearn everything, but it might help...after hurting.

This is Kanji that I don't understand the sentence is as "We need to change the position of Class B, surely Nemoto-kun can't suppress everyone through 発言力."
I can only get basically "forceful speech" through it, and thinking about it, I don't know if threats could be something applied instead of 'forceful speech'...if they are interchangeable.
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by hobogunner »

That is quite the convenient place, Lare.

Now, this is one of the first translations I'm almost entirely confident in, so please tell me lightly how wrong it is.

Bクラスに置き換えると、確かに今の根本君に皆を押えつけるだけの発言力はないだろう.
(根本=Nemoto)
"When Class B moves, it appears that we can't say for certain that Nemoto-kun can hold down everyone."

I know it has awkward phrasing, and I'll work on that, but I'm pretty confident in that. Hopefully it's not a false confidence, as I did that in 5 minutes. (No, I didn't have a bot do it.)
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by YoakeNoHikari »

Bクラスに置き換えると、確かに今の根本君に皆を押えつけるだけの発言力はないだろう.
If we take over B-class, certainly, the Nemoto-kun as of now won't have the authority to suppress everybody.
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by hobogunner »

Sigh, at least I got another 3 lines done that I know are right.....maybe....

Okay, so I had my particles reversed in my head. Hrm, I thought I was being tricky from reading it backwards. :roll:

However, adding context the last line is (I apologize for not quoting you, Hikari it makes it too confusing.)
"Also, there is only one way of doing that (using terror to oppress Class B), it's impossible to say how fast it will be. In order to begin governing them with fear, we need to show that we have enough force needed to overwhelm them."

If we take over Class B, certainly, Nemoto-kun currently won't have the authority to suppress everybody. This way might be difficult if everyone in the class dissaproves standing down.

"If that is true, what is a good way for doing this?"
I can't get "If we take over Class B" whatsoever though,

For 置き換える
I get 'Replace

Breaking it down:
置き- shift
換える-placement

Maybe "If Class B starts moving" (The war hasn't started yet, they are thinking of strategies to quickly get it over with.)
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by YoakeNoHikari »

My bad, I mean 'If we take over with B-class' My usage of take over here carries the implication that they're displacing something.

Could you give me the previous lines in Japanese?

As of now, I'm not sure what they're replacing. In fact, my sentence carries a huge assumption, which I believe is wrong.
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by hobogunner »

Oh, right. (I just sort of gulped, because I'm being checked.)

Erhh....well, due to my slow translation speed, I would assume the position of class B, because earlier (and I mean way earlier) they talked about how the last war was won because Nemoto simply stayed inside of Class B's room, while the war was being fought on the outside. Main excerpt from earlier (I don't have the line, sorry, no way to verify my translation)
"Nemoto isn't someone normally respected, though our win in the war last April was from using a cowardly trick, his status was greatly reduced. Peeping again last week caused an uproar. Now Nemoto isn't staying in Class B's room." (said quite a bit earlier)

The top part was already translated on here, that is the meat of it, the part above is about Akihisa complaining about the TV (in the book).
Spoiler! :
"いや、そういう意味ではないのじゃ明久。不満一杯の国民をなだめるにはどうしたら手っ取り早いかという話なのじゃが......そうじゃな。恐怖で抑えつける、とかはどうじゃろうか?"
"それも一つの手段ではあるが、あまり手っ取り早いとは言えない。恐怖政始にはまずそれを行うだけの圧倒的な力が必要だからな"
 Bクラスに置き換えると、確かに今の根本君に皆を押えつけるだけの発言力はないだろう。その方法でクラスの皆の不満を抑えるのは難しいかもしれない。
"だとすると何がいい方法なの?"
Edit: The gist of the next part (translating now) is roughly "The solution is to find a common enemy." More lost than ever, I'm sure the fact I'm bad with information providing doesn't help.
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by YoakeNoHikari »

"それも一つの手段ではあるが、あまり手っ取り早いとは言えない。恐怖政始にはまずそれを行うだけの圧倒的な力が必要だからな"
 Bクラスに置き換えると、確かに今の根本君に皆を押えつけるだけの発言力はないだろう。その方法でクラスの皆の不満を抑えるのは難しいかもしれない。
"だとすると何がいい方法なの?"
"That too is a method, but we can't really say it's the quickest. Because, for a tyranny, you first need the overwhelming power just to operate it."

If B class replaces him, indeed, the Nemoto-kun as of now won't have the authority to suppress everybody. It'd probably be difficult to keep down the dissent of everybody in the class using that method.

"If that's the case, what would be a good method?"
It sounds like they're theorizing what Nemoto's strategy of suppressing the class is.

Some things I'd like to know:

Is F-class or B-class dissatisfied? (I presume that B-class is dissatisfied.)
Who is trying to suppress whom? (I assume Nemoto is trying to suppress his class's dissent.)
Who is declaring war on whom? (I presume B -> F; Nemoto's scheme to regain some authority through the morale surge after a victory.)

Sorry for the late response, I'm trying to do my French homework.
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by hobogunner »

Hrm. :? That would make sense, however for the" いや、そういう意味ではないのじゃ明久。不満一杯の国民をなだめるにはどうしたら手っ取り早いかという話なのじゃが......そうじゃな。恐怖で抑えつける、とかはどうじゃろうか?"

(I got with help): "No, that's not what we meant Akihisa. What we're actually talking about is what we must do in order to quickly pacify the extremely dissented people....yeah, how about this. How does using terror to oppress them sound to you guys?"

Therefore I assume it is other people interjecting as to how they feel as though they should oppress them. That is why I would up with "In order to begin ruling them with fear (tyranny is a better word) we need to show that we have enough force needed to overwhelm them." as opposed to "Because, for a tyranny, you first need the overwhelming power just to operate it." While it is not a stretch by any means to think that Nemoto would rule with tyranny, however, that just doesn't really make sense to me.

Also, could Class B not be the object being moved? As in, the group as a whole, it has been referenced as that before.
Hikari wrote:Is F-class or B-class dissatisfied? (I presume that B-class is dissatisfied.)
  • Yes, they do not like Nemoto's ruling.
Who is trying to suppress whom? (I assume Nemoto is trying to suppress his class's dissent.)
  • This is correct.
Who is declaring war on whom? (I presume B -> F; Nemoto's scheme to regain some authority through the morale surge after a victory.)
  • Yet again, correct.
Sorry for the late response, I'm trying to do my French homework.
Do your homework, I have about 4 hours of Welding homework to hold me over if I reach a gigantic bump in the road. (or sleep, or go to the gym, I don't lack things to distract me.)
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by YoakeNoHikari »

Also, could Class B not be the object being moved? As in, the group as a whole, it has been referenced as that before.
The nature of the verb in relation to the particles suggests that Class B is replacing/displacing something else.
恐怖政始にはまずそれを行うだけの圧倒的な力が必要だからな
In order to begin ruling them with fear we need to show that we have enough force needed to overwhelm them.
Because, for a tyranny, you first need the overwhelming power just to operate it.
Spoiler! :
恐怖政治* - Rule by fear (Tyranny.) [The kanji was wrong in the original.]
には - as for
まず - first
それを - referring to the tyranny
行うだけ - just to run it
圧倒的な力 - overwhelming power
必要 - necessary
I don't see how the first sentence would make sense.

Question: Is Class F dissatisfied with something?
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by hobogunner »

Not from what I have translate, Class F isn't dissatisfied with anything. (I'm posting this to let you think about it, gonna dig threw my translation notes and see what I got for that sentence.)

Okay, from my notes I got: tyranny ni ha firstly sore wo to carry out dake no overwhelming na force ga needed/necessary da kara na.
Last edited by hobogunner on Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by YoakeNoHikari »

Then it stands to reason that they're discussing Nemoto's strategies.

Class F has no reason to quell anybody, so the only reason they'd think about methods to suppress people is if they were trying to look at things from Nemoto's viewpoint. Perhaps they're trying to think of a method for him to suppress the class without having to start a war.
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by hobogunner »

That still hardly makes sense:
Spoiler! :
"What is the current state of class F?"

"This morning those idiots were retaking their exams. If that's the case, they might be aware of our intentions."

"Is that so? That doesn't matter. In the meantime, we should go replenish our points, they might fail to change theirs which may affect their performance, so we will declare war immediately after."

"Understood."


Maybe the tape recorder was for wire-tapping, just like the previous conversation, the sound quality was so bad that I couldn't even recognize the voice of anyone. I could only tell it was a conversation between two male students.

"Was that Class D? Assuming so, what if this is just a unsolved misunderstanding?"

"....furufuru."

I questioned Muttsulini shaking his head in response. Class D? If that's true, I wonder where this situation happened.

"Class D is certainly becoming quiet. This is probably a different class ---- seeing as a male student gave the instructions."

".....this is Class B's conversation."

"Class B?! Why!?"

That conversation made it clear we were considered a rival, Class F is hastening preparation for a Summoner Test War. When it starts, we will become the opponents of Class B!?

"Class B, or rather, Nemoto, is a rascal. That damn devil. I'm worried about his ulterior motives"

Yuuji clicked his tongue right after saying that, which was really annoying.

"Right. They really want to get revenge. Maybe Class F should request a war before Class B."

Such weak people should be tormented.

"No, revenge is probably not Nemoto's goal."

"Eh? Why not?"

"It doesn't make sense. Actually, he has more than enough reason to hate us. However, that reason alone doesn't make it worth doing."

As usual, I didn't understand Yuuji's skillful response.

"Yuuji, what would be his reason?"

Hideyoshi tilted his head while asking Yuuji exactly what I wanted to ask.

"To restrain his attack."

"? He gave a speech about this a while ago about this."

"Nemoto isn't someone normally respected, though our win in the war last April was from using a cowardly trick, his status was the lowered. Peeping again last week caused an uproar. Now Nemoto isn't staying in Class B's room."

"Yeah, I know..."

I guess Nemoto-kun won't stay inside Class B because they would need to stop us from breaking in.

"The problem is, in the case where the conditions of the class are clearly unstable, what kind of counter measures do you think the representative will employ to stop the dissent of the class?"
Dammit. I guess Akihisa lost me. :lol: (He started thinking about how the T.V. told him to put on perfume. :roll: ) Guess I have some new paper to start fires with. :?
The problems with not translating for a month: you forget what is going on.
Oh any text greater than 10 characters, why do you confuse me so much? Unless I just can't sleep until I correct all of my mistakes on this, I'm done translating for tonight, I have too much to check now. (only around 10 written lines, but I have to retranslate it.)

Thank you for setting me straight on that Hikari. Sorry for the headache I probably caused.
Last edited by hobogunner on Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by YoakeNoHikari »

Wait, so does it make sense or not? It seems to make sense to me...
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Re: Hocchan's Saviours. (Baka Test)

Post by hobogunner »

Oh, it makes complete sense now. Now that I have to retranslate that entire thing again.

The main part that confused me (I hadn't touched the translation in forever) was "...what we're actually talking about is what we must do in order to quickly pacify the extremely dissented people." based on that I made the assumption these were all Class F's actions, not theoretical actions of Class B. :? (I'll start reading my translation again if I take a massive break, which hopefully I don't.)

Edit: Damn it all, I'm going to mark these lines for retranslation and just keep going. The next part is about 'finding a common enemy' so, it shouldn't be too hard, it's said in a way that is outside of this whole class/school business. It's only 5 a.m. why not wait until the sun is up?
Maybe this is just too fast, too real -Stay Close, Parabelle
Snails see the benefits, the beauty in every inch -Snails, The Format
You thought you could find happiness just over that green hill; you thought you would be satisfied, but you never will learn to be still
-Learn To Be Still, The Eagles
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