A way to prevent losing progress?

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Arcsol93
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A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by Arcsol93 »

Ok started learning Japanese from scratch beginning with Hiragana. About fifteen or so in and stopping there to make sure I remember them. Its definitely hard but very fun when you start to realize the progress you're making when you recognize the words without thinking too much on it.

Anyway I'm sure some were in the same boat as me at one point, my question is how did you make sure the progress you made wasn't forgotten easily? My memory is pretty good after seeing or hearing a certain thing a few times but there are some days where it can be frustrating. I was thinking about leaving note cards strewn about my house or something with a few random words here and there when I'm not at the computer studying.

Any help or suggestions? It would really be appreciated, thank you.
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by Misogi »

Some people use the flashcards system to refresh their memory.

You can also use Ba Ba Dum for more randomness. It has several languages, including Japanese.
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by cloudii »

If you're doing hiragana, you should be able to start doing words too. Don't just keep flashcards for individual hirigana. Mix some JPLT5 vocab in there. I'd even start focusing your effort onto the vocab as soon as possible.

For example, at this point you should be able to easily read some words like "iie" even without knowing all your hiragana yet.

Repeatedly writing vocab, imo, works best for me (stereotypical Chinese studying, lol). 20X of each term.
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Arcsol93
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by Arcsol93 »

cloud wrote:If you're doing hiragana, you should be able to start doing words too. Don't just keep flashcards for individual hirigana. Mix some JPLT5 vocab in there. I'd even start focusing your effort onto the vocab as soon as possible.

For example, at this point you should be able to easily read some words like "iie" even without knowing all your hiragana yet.

Repeatedly writing vocab, imo, works best for me (stereotypical Chinese studying, lol). 20X of each term.
Yeah words like iie were pretty easy to pick up beforehand. It's really not so hard as long as a person takes it seriously and really wants to learn it.

I myself was thinking that yesterday when it came to the vocab "Ok so I can read some of the words but they are pointless if I don't know the meanings of said words." Lol. To be honest the method you're recommending is what we had to do through grade school so it probably would help a bit if I went in that direction, would help keep the characters in my head as well. Thanks. (I can see how some started with Kanji first considering all of the characters, but at the same time most of the titles and names I've been seeing are in Hiragana and Katakana.)

Now another question is how would you know when its safe to move on to learning more of the characters and particles without completely taking on too much? Like go at a pace where you don't just memorize but actually learn and know the word/particle/character without having to really think about it?
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by cloudii »

Arcsol93 wrote: Now another question is how would you know when its safe to move on to learning more of the characters and particles without completely taking on too much? Like go at a pace where you don't just memorize but actually learn and know the word/particle/character without having to really think about it?
*Shrugs* You kind of have to gauge it yourself. When you start realizing you barely recognize something you've already studied, you're going too fast.

imo, the important thing is to keep cycling back the word/particle/characters that you've already learned. When you get absolutely sick of seeing a vocab term (like "blue", or something) and you're sure you'd never forget it in your life, you can toss it from your pile. As soon as you know your hiragana, I would also start trying to learn common phrases and build up to sentences. I'm a huge fan of writing (imo, it's the fastest way to learn), so as soon as you can, I would personally start generating stupid sentences that stretch the limit of your vocabulary range, like...
  • The dog is big. The dog drinks water. Water is cold. It's raining. The sky is dark... etc.
Also, when you're doing kanji (this is my experience with Chinese), it's not enough to just recognize kanji. Be able to write it, otherwise I'll guarantee you'll forget it eventually. Being able to write kanji = being able to read them.
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Arcsol93
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by Arcsol93 »

Yeah I'm a writer myself so I can see what you mean by that, the more you use it/practice it the more its sure to stay with you. Its probably a better way of learning considering you're using it more in an everyday sense rather than just memorizing it and moving on to the next set. (Though this may just be biased considering from a writers standpoint its rather helpful in the future when working on something new.)

Now one more question (And hopefully the last.) When it comes to consonants is it better to learn it while learning the rest of the characters? Or after? From the vocab list I see them every now and then but it doesn't seem like they appear too often to have to worry.
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by cloudii »

I don't know how far you've gotten, Arcsol, since last time, but I started using spaced repetition software.

To be specific: "Anki".

I highly recommend it. It's amazingggggg <333333 It's very useful for trying to learn while reading. When you hit a vocab term you don't know, you add it to Anki, and then you let the software do its magic.
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Arcsol93
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by Arcsol93 »

I have Anki but I don't think I'm using it right XD. The program is slightly different that what I'm used to.

But I have put in vocab and letters and I will say that even if I quit I wouldn't be able to forget the word lol. It really is good~
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by Hiyono »

Memory is associative, meaning it links to other memories. The stronger the links, and the more there are, the easier it is to remember things. This is the principle behind mnemonics or "memory palaces" (if you watch Sherlock ;D) - by associating the items to be remembered with something else, you improve your ability to recall them when needed. Memory can also be reinforced, which is why flash cards help, but the associative aspect of memory is a lot more powerful if you can use it right.

Learning languages is no different. As a native speaker, you don't actually "read" the letters that appear in words; instead, you remember the word that is associated with that "shape." This is why it's so easy for misspelled words to pass unnoticed - the form of that word in your head is correct, and every time you look at the misspelled form, it's translated into its correct form in your head via the unconscious process of recall. Similarly, if you find yourself easily forgetting language concepts that you've learned, it's likely because your encoding of those concepts was too shallow - you need to tie it to other things.

Hiragana is basic enough that if you simply force yourself to read a lot of hiragana (e.g. with manga), then you'll eventually remember it. When it comes to kanji, however, do your best to try and remember the idea that it represents, rather than its English word. That's a critical failing of many second-language learners - they try to translate instead of simply encoding the new word in an entirely separate process. Additionally, try to link as much meaning as you can to a kanji, which will aid you in remembering it. This includes things like stroke order, radicals, and the origin of the character.

TL;DR: The single most powerful attribute of your memory is the associativeness of it - if you know how to exploit it.
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by pudding321 »

I know this sounds a bit cheating, but since I know (traditional and of course simplified) Chinese beforehand, kanji was no problem.

Still I print A4-sized vocabulary sheets (4 columns, 30 lexemes each) and stick it on the wall in front of my study desk. Now when I take a break from working I look up at the sheet and refresh some of my memory. I change the sheet about every two weeks, but I reuse old sheets. It is also good to pronounce them out loud at first, then in your heart to remember them better. When you can successfully hear and discern this lexeme from an anime or game, you will feel accomplished, and the lexeme will sink to your heart.

I also don't use any computer programs because I think that's too hectic and I want to make learning easier.

(lexeme as in an entry in a dictionary...)
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Arcsol93
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by Arcsol93 »

Honestly when learning the letters or words I habitually say it out loud to begin with for some reason. I think its because whatever I hear I remember it permanently. So vocal will be easy, and reading I have a few ideas, when I get a bit more down I'll probably start translating something for fun so I get some practice in.

Digital is good for those who are on it more, I use it because I write with my computer more than my notebook. (Horrible if my drive gets wiped I know, but I'll take my chances for now.)

Though your idea would probably help so I don't get distracted from gaming lol, that or do it while gaming. So that's a good idea to go with Pudding, thanks for putting it out there.
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by pudding321 »

No problem. Here's one of my sheets.
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Arcsol93
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by Arcsol93 »

Need some advice, put in about 50+ words into anki last night and about 20+ characters. Would it be more efficient to put them into two separate card packs to study or mash them all together? (This will also be for future references like consonants, particles, etc)
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Arcsol93
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by Arcsol93 »

Never mind, somehow managed to learn the rest of the hiragana, most of the double consonants and /y/ vowels XD. Just have to get the voiced down and work on the vocab a bit. Only problem would be picking a proper time to start on Katakana.

It's actually pretty cool when you get enough progress down to the point where you read a scan and you know what certain words they're saying without a problem, where as two months ago it was still gibberish. (Though I probably would have been farther if I hadn't slacked off for a month.)
"It's true that the real world is a shitty game. It's both unreasonable...and illogical...But a happy end will never come to those who want to finish a difficult game with ease." -The World God Only Knows
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Arcsol93
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Re: A way to prevent losing progress?

Post by Arcsol93 »

I have a question for future reference since it isn't on the site. When it comes to the muddied characters for Katakana are they the same as the Hiragana characters? Or is there more added?
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