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日本語の質問 (IS)
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:19 am
by kuroi_shinigami
ちょっと聞きたいとがある。この文のなか”至って”はどういう意味ですか？
シャルに至っては”なにかな、織斑ーくん？”と言い出す終末。
私の知っている”至って”は”極めて”の意味で、この文に嵌らないと思う。
それに、もしよければ、この文の英訳は何ですか？
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:56 am
by Doraneko
「に至っては」という表現、文型として使われる場合も稀ではないので、くれぐれもご注意を。
例の文の文脈に則って訳せば「Even」の感じなのでは。勿論それは直訳ではないが。
参考までに：
日本語表現文型辞典 wrote:
～に至っては／～に至ると
名詞：× ＋ に至っては ～ ない
動詞：原形 に至ると
に至っても
♪ 会話 ♪
山田：株式投資も病膏肓に至ると、身を滅ぼし兼ねないよ。 何でも限度があろうというものさ。
李 ：株価がここまで下落するに至っても、彼はまだあきらめていないらしいが、何か成算でもあるのかな？
山田：彼も「もうはまだなり、まだはもうなり」なんて口走るに至ってはおしまいだよ。
♯ 解説 ♭
「～に至る」と「～になる」はほとんど同じ意味で、「ここに至っては」のような慣用表現以外は、入れ替えが可能です。
「～に至っては／～に至ると」は「～の状況・段階になってしまうと、もう～」と最終事態になったことを表します。そのため、多くの用例は文末で否定的事態（多くは「～ない」と呼応）になったことを表します。
貧しい農民になると（・に至ると／・ に至っては）食べ物すらない。
「～に至っても」は「～になっても、まだ／やはり～」を表す逆説表現になり、残念・仕方がない・憤りという感情が強調されます。
§ 例文 §
１．孫に至っては、祖母の年齢どころか名前さえ知らない。
２．癌も全身に転移するに至ると、もはや打つ手はない。
３．別居するに至っては、離婚はもはや時間の問題だ。
４．Ａ国の核実験は近隣諸国はもちろんのこと、日本に至っては全く寝耳に水で、予想だにしないことだった。
５．血清によるエイズの伝染が立証されるに至っても、厚生省はその責任を認めようとはしなかった。
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:21 pm
by kuroi_shinigami
なるほど。勉強になった＾＿＾。その解説と例文はいいですね。どこに見つけました？
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:13 pm
by Doraneko
日本語駆け込み寺
http://www.nihongo2.com/
幅広い資料や教材などが揃っているので、日本語学習者にとってかなり役立つと思う。
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:07 am
by kuroi_shinigami
ありがとうございます。＾＿＾
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:42 am
by larethian
以下のサイトも役に立てるかも、とくに擬声語や擬態語みたいに。
http://www.nihongoresources.com/
under dictionaries, select
sound/state. then use
category dropdown to select. leave search box empty to pull out entire list.
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 5:57 am
by kuroi_shinigami
もう一度質問します
”足した形”ってなんの意味ですか？
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:29 am
by YoakeNoHikari
Maybe, the shape of the footprint? Just a guess XD
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:01 am
by kimoota
Isn't it just "with [something] added"? 「アレを付けた形」ではないか？
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 2:33 am
by kuroi_shinigami
Doesn't make sense in the sentence. I was thinking more along the line of acting as feet or balancer, but I couldn't be sure so I asked here. It's from IS novel vol. 6 pg. 178 1st sentence if you want to check the original words.
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:02 am
by EusthEnoptEron
Can't you just post the whole sentence at least?
[edit]
Had a look; I guess that part basically just means that her wing thrusters got some more power than before. I don't know at all what IS is about, but it seems to me that those new(?) thrusters add to the power of her order-made one? But it has most likely nothing to do with the "foot"-meaning of 足, but with the "add"-meaning, as mentioned by kimoota.
For the others who want to have a try:
元々カスタム仕業のシャルの機体はオーダーメイドのウイング・スラスターを装備しているが、そこにさらに出力を足した形になっている。
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:32 am
by larethian
I think this is not ashi, but tasu.
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:50 am
by YoakeNoHikari
Yes, indeed. In other words, I failed.
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 7:00 am
by kuroi_shinigami
EusthEnoptEron wrote:Can't you just post the whole sentence at least?
[edit]
Had a look; I guess that part basically just means that her wing thrusters got some more power than before. I don't know at all what IS is about, but it seems to me that those new(?) thrusters add to the power of her order-made one? But it has most likely nothing to do with the "foot"-meaning of 足, but with the "add"-meaning, as mentioned by kimoota.
For the others who want to have a try:
元々カスタム仕業のシャルの機体はオーダーメイドのウイング・スラスターを装備しているが、そこにさらに出力を足した形になっている。
Edit : okay, can't seem to be able to make a good English sentence out of this. Can anyone help me translate the sentence roughly?
Edit 2 : I translate it into "Charl's unit, which in the first place is a custom specification, equipped an order-made wing thruster which output add even more acceleration power to the unit.". Not sure about this though, so I still want to ask everyone's suggestion.
Re: 日本語の質問
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 7:55 am
by larethian
kuroi_shinigami wrote:EusthEnoptEron wrote:Can't you just post the whole sentence at least?
[edit]
Had a look; I guess that part basically just means that her wing thrusters got some more power than before. I don't know at all what IS is about, but it seems to me that those new(?) thrusters add to the power of her order-made one? But it has most likely nothing to do with the "foot"-meaning of 足, but with the "add"-meaning, as mentioned by kimoota.
For the others who want to have a try:
元々カスタム仕業のシャルの機体はオーダーメイドのウイング・スラスターを装備しているが、そこにさらに出力を足した形になっている。
Edit : okay, can't seem to be able to make a good English sentence out of this. Can anyone help me translate the sentence roughly?
Edit 2 : I translate it into "Charl's unit, which in the first place is a custom specification, equipped an order-made wing thruster which output add even more acceleration power to the unit.". Not sure about this though, so I still want to ask everyone's suggestion.
I think your challenge lies in subject choice. when you start the sentence, you tried to make Charl's unit the subject of discussion, thereby inheriting the order in the Japanese sentence, when in actual fact, the subject that is being described in the second half of the sentence is the wing thrusters, despite the fact that Charl's unit was declared the topic. that's why it gets awkward towards the end.
Even though there's no furigana, my guess would be 足した (=たした) and 形 (=かたち).
so, how about this?:
The custom wing thrusters that have been fitted onto Charl's unit, which was already custom made in the first place, have transformed into a shape that further increases the output thrust.
or, if you want to retain the emphasis in the first half:
Charl's unit, which was already custom made in the first place, have been fitted with custom wing thrusters; and those thrusters have transformed into a shape that further increases the output thrust.