Pui Pui Manga Translation

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ShadowZeroHeart
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

Maybe we need to clarify this with jupiter or whoever can understand it...

From my understanding, the reason for the imprint in the past is also as an indication of identity. Each family or ring has a different insignia on it. So by imprinting this insignia on the sealing wax, people should not be able to duplicate it, so the contents are not to be seen by others, or else the sealing wax will be broken and people will notice this. In the manga it seems to also indicate that the letter/seal will not be lost once imprinted. I am guessing this is because the insignia will tell which family it is from for example, so it will not be lost?

Similarly, in the manga you can see the picture as the ring arrowed to the letter, extend it and it leads to the sealing wax, and not the other way round. This is because the ring of an individual should be fixed, and used repetitively on the sealing waxes of as many letters as the person writes. So to my knowledge, it is not the ring that is engraved. But the sealing wax that is imprinted...

Basically the meaning in the manga(I believe) is...
Just as the ring of Solomon can seal demons, people believe that rings have the power of sealing. So they seal letters with rings, hoping that it will ensure the letter/seal/stamp will not be lost.
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Vaelis
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by Vaelis »

*cry*

Trabiussssssssss
Please help us :cry: :cry:

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なくさないように
指輪に印をしつらえる
ことが多かったんた
ShadowZeroHeart wrote:So to my knowledge, it is not the ring that is engraved. But the sealing wax that is imprinted...
If the seal isn't engraved on the ring, how can you use the ring to imprint the seal on the wax...
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jupiter_ringsid
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by jupiter_ringsid »

Yeah, the confusing part is the definition of seal itself. We could use the word seal repeatedly but with different meaning.
Taken from Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary 11th
Main Entry:3seal
Function:noun
Etymology:Middle English sele, seel, from Anglo-French seal, sel, from Latin sigillum seal, from diminutive of signum sign, seal — more at SIGN
Date:13th century
1 a : something that confirms, ratifies, or makes secure : GUARANTEE, ASSURANCE b (1) : a device with a cut or raised emblem, symbol, or word used especially to certify a signature or authenticate a document (2) : a medallion or ring face bearing such a device incised so that it can be impressed on wax or moist clay; also : a piece of wax or a wafer bearing such an impression c : an impression, device, or mark given the effect of a common-law seal by statute law or by American local custom recognized by judicial decision d : a usually ornamental adhesive stamp that may be used to close a letter or package; especially : one given in a fund-raising campaign
2 a : something that secures (as a wax seal on a document) b : a closure that must be broken to be opened and that thus reveals tampering c (1) : a tight and perfect closure (as against the passage of gas or water) (2) : a device to prevent the passage or return of gas or air into a pipe or container
3 : a seal that is a symbol or mark of office
–under seal : with an authenticating seal affixed

'Don’t people of olden days use wax to seal envelopes? <-- the seal in this one refers to definition 1(b)2 a medallion or ring face bearing such a device incised so that it can be impressed on wax or moist clay; also : a piece of wax or a wafer bearing such an impression
"In order to not lose the seal," this one refers to definition 1(b)1 a device with a cut or raised emblem, symbol, or word used especially to certify a signature or authenticate a document [/b]
" they often engraved the insignia on their rings." thus 1(b)2 a medallion or ring face bearing such a device incised so that it can be impressed on wax or moist clay; also : a piece of wax or a wafer bearing such an impression
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

jupiter_ringsid wrote:Yeah, the confusing part is the definition of seal itself. We could use the word seal repeatedly but with different meaning.
Taken from Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary 11th
Main Entry:3seal
Function:noun
Etymology:Middle English sele, seel, from Anglo-French seal, sel, from Latin sigillum seal, from diminutive of signum sign, seal — more at SIGN
Date:13th century
1 a : something that confirms, ratifies, or makes secure : GUARANTEE, ASSURANCE b (1) : a device with a cut or raised emblem, symbol, or word used especially to certify a signature or authenticate a document (2) : a medallion or ring face bearing such a device incised so that it can be impressed on wax or moist clay; also : a piece of wax or a wafer bearing such an impression c : an impression, device, or mark given the effect of a common-law seal by statute law or by American local custom recognized by judicial decision d : a usually ornamental adhesive stamp that may be used to close a letter or package; especially : one given in a fund-raising campaign
2 a : something that secures (as a wax seal on a document) b : a closure that must be broken to be opened and that thus reveals tampering c (1) : a tight and perfect closure (as against the passage of gas or water) (2) : a device to prevent the passage or return of gas or air into a pipe or container
3 : a seal that is a symbol or mark of office
–under seal : with an authenticating seal affixed

'Don’t people of olden days use wax to seal envelopes? <-- the seal in this one refers to definition 1(b)2 a medallion or ring face bearing such a device incised so that it can be impressed on wax or moist clay; also : a piece of wax or a wafer bearing such an impression
"In order to not lose the seal," this one refers to definition 1(b)1 a device with a cut or raised emblem, symbol, or word used especially to certify a signature or authenticate a document [/b]
" they often engraved the insignia on their rings." thus 1(b)2 a medallion or ring face bearing such a device incised so that it can be impressed on wax or moist clay; also : a piece of wax or a wafer bearing such an impression
Sorry, but for the first one, that seal is 100% not a noun.

From dictionary.com
—Verb phrase22. seal off, a. to close hermetically: to seal off a jar.
b. to block (an entrance, area, etc.) completely so as to prevent escape or entrance: The police sealed off the area after the bomb threat was received.

tr.v. sealed, seal·ing, seals

To affix a seal to in order to prove authenticity or attest to accuracy, legal weight, quality, or another standard.

To close with or as if with a seal.
To close hermetically.
To make fast or fill up, as with plaster or cement.
To apply a waterproof coating to: seal a blacktop driveway.
To grant, certify, or designate under seal or authority.
To establish or determine irrevocably: Our fate was sealed.
Mormon Church To make (a marriage, for example) binding for life; solemnize forever.
The letter is closed up with a seal. That is for the first part.

For the second part, I believe the seal is, in your defination, 2a, b. Something that secures, and in your post it is given explicitly (As a wax seal on a document) which is exactly what we are discussing in this case. This seal is to keep the letter intact until it reaches the recipent, if it is broken it reveals tampering.

Therefore, part three is wrong, in the sense that they don't engrave the insignia on their rings. But they impresses the insignia on their rings on the wax.

Two points to make it slightly more clear. Firstly, as I mentioned earlier, by your definations, if someone writes ten letters, does that mean he needs to make 10 rings? Since each seal would require 1 ring then. Secondly, if you are to engrave the insignia on their rings, you would first need something to stamp the seal on the letter?

Or am i misunderstanding the sentence?

Reading it over and over again...
Vaelis wrote:I give up.

"In order to not lose the stamp, they often engraved the seal on their ring." <-- is it ok or not?
In order to not lose the stamp, they often engraved the stamp with the insignia on their ring?? Is this what you mean? I am getting mighty lost at the translation now >"<

Edit: Even if this is the case, the word engrave, i just checked on the dictionary, is to carve on a hard surface or press something on a hard surface to make markings. And sealing wax is definitely not hard.
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Vaelis
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by Vaelis »

ShadowZeroHeart wrote:Edit: Even if this is the case, the word engrave, i just checked on the dictionary, is to carve on a hard surface or press something on a hard surface to make markings. And sealing wax is definitely not hard.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/engrave

1. To carve, cut, or etch into a material: engraved the champion's name on the trophy.
2. To carve, cut, or etch a design or letters into: engraved the silver watch with my monogram.

If it's the problem then we can replace it by "carve" but it's the same.
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

Imprint?

The idea is that the thing to be moulded is the wax, not the ring. So engraving or carving seems weird to use...

Or simply, stamping the insignia of the ring onto the seal?
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Vaelis
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by Vaelis »

ShadowZeroHeart wrote:The idea is that the thing to be moulded is the wax, not the ring.
No!
That's the problem, we aren't speaking about the wax at all.

When a ring is created, the seal (=the pattern) is craved on the ring and after being craved on the ring you can use the ring indefinetely to imprint the seal on the wax.
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salv87
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by salv87 »

okay, so smth from a non translator here..
most high-ranking persons had a special insignia.. at first it was a stamp with that insignia. they pressed the stamp on the wax when sealing the letter.
This way the reciever got 2 main points - the insignia showed that the letter was from a specific high-ranking person, and if the was seal was not broken, that means the letter was not read by an unapropriate person.

but the problem is that the stamp could be stolen by somebody (when it's in the desk or somewhere, and carrying it around all the time is not very comfortable). so they started engraving the insignia of the stamp on rings. so when sealing letters they pressed the ring on the wax instead of the stamp.
the result was the same insignia on the was seal, and the stamp as a separate object was not needed.
Also it was harder to steal a ring which was always on the finger.

note: "stamp" in my post means not the mark left on the paper/was, but as the..mm "apparatus" used to leave the mark, like this
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by Beware the talking cat »

"To avoid losing their stamp, they would engrave it onto their ring, rather than onto a stamp."

"To avoid losing [the Japanese name-stamp], they had it engraved into their [sealing ring] rather than onto a [Japanese name stamp]"

This makes since, because the Japanese are used to having a stamp they use rather than their signature. Think of the sealing ring like that: it is just like the Japanese name stamp, only not used for anything but to seal letters.
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

Okay, I understand what you mean by the sentence now... HOWEVER!!
That is not what is portraited in the manga is it?

The idea is that rings have powers of sealing. So they are not engraving the ring because they will not lose the ring that way, but because the ring have such powers, so they use rings to imprint onto the sealing waxes!!

How else can it be linked back to Solomon's ring?
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by Vaelis »

ShadowZeroHeart wrote:How else can it be linked back to Solomon's ring?
It's to explain why it's not a "normal stamp" but a ring.
If it was a "normal stamp" it could have been stolen/lost.
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

^^" then how does the stamping issue even come in? It does not link back to the story in that case?
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Vaelis
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by Vaelis »

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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by salv87 »

Vaelis wrote: Image
somehow the question before makes me wonder..
the one in the right upper corner.
it was translated as "Don’t people of olden days use wax to seal envelopes? "

I have a question.. which one is the word for "wax". somehow this part could be misunderstood causing the comotion..
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Re: Pui Pui Manga Translation

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

Sorry for the troubles caused Vaelis >"<

salv87, I used the Chinese text, and it used the term sealing wax.

and from
jupiter_ringsid wrote:昔の人はとけたロウで封筒を封印していただろ?
なくさないように 指輪に印をしつらえることが多かったんだ
If you see the picture the 封印していただろ part would mean "to seal and also at the same time sign it".
Continuing to the second part, "So as not to lose it, they often install the seal/stamp(marking) on their ring" so I think it' refers to the seal/stamp.
If I change the wording it would be something like "So as not to lose the seal/stamp, they often engraved the insignia on their ring" (If they always wore the ring, the chance of the seal being lost would be minimum)
We can see that in the past, they seal the letters and signed them at the same time, which is the use of the sealing wax?

Well, I cannot read Japanese, so I cannot be sure how to interpret the sentence... maybe someone else can do a Japanese=>English full translation?
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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