Volume 1 Chapter 1

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Darklor
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Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by Darklor »

Hm, somehow is in the Chapter still a sentence not translated as it seems...

Spoiler! :
Well, no point picking out her faults, no one's perfect after all!

"...Hmm, that's a really creative and outstanding piece of work, I like it! I think I see a hint of Picasso's 「Guernica」 in it."

すごく腕曲的に感想を述べた。というか、それが限界だった。


"Really? I'm so happy!"

Looking at the joy expressed on Nogizaka-san's innocent face, I felt a sense of guilt weighing down on me. At least I wasn't lying.

"I'm really really happy! I'm glad I asked for your opinion!"


and are those "「INNOCENT SMILE」, 「Guernica」, 「Für Elise」" as they should be? Arent they a japanese exclusive custom? Shouldnt those titles rather be in " " or ' ' ?
Please don't mind my bad english since I'm german.

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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

translation from chinese,

I expressed my own opinions very tactfully, but this is already the limit. (or "but this is the best i can do"?)
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Darklor
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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by Darklor »

I will replace the sentence with your translation for now or did you wanted it to do it yourself?

Replaced it as:
I expressed my own opinions very tactfully, but this was already the best I could say.
hope this is also ok?
Please don't mind my bad english since I'm german.

Darklor

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Krikit
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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by Krikit »

Can I get someone to double check if 腕曲的 should be used here? It doesn't make much sense to me.

It's like... arm + music + teki(an ending which turns a word into a...characteristic I guess is how you'd describe it. kind of like, patriotic, satanic, overwhelming, etc)

And it doesn't make any sense...can someone check the Japanese novel to see if this is actually the correct sentence?
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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by joay_b »

Well, I did a quick scan at the raw scans. This is yet one proof why I sometimes hate the OCR'd versions.

Anyway here's the original:

すごく婉曲的に感想を述べた。というか、それが限界だった。

This may result to:

I expressed my thoughts very indirectly. How should I put it, that was all I could do.
まず隗より始めよ。
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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by dragonst »

Tactfully should be the best translation, taking into context of the sentence.

Maybe we could merge the two original sentences for better fluency?

"it was all I could do to express my opinions tactfully"

Edit: 婉曲法(えんきょくほう)とは一般に、否定的な含意を持つ語句を直接用いず、他の語句で置き換える語法である。具体的には聞き手が感じる不快感や困惑を少なくする目的......

The above definition's from the japanese wiki, and it basically states that 婉曲 is used to describe a situation whereby a person does not express his opposing opinion outright, but replaces it with other words/sentences so as to cause as little unhappiness to the receiver of the opinion as possible.

Darklor wrote:and are those "「INNOCENT SMILE」, 「Guernica」, 「Für Elise」" as they should be? Arent they a japanese exclusive custom? Shouldnt those titles rather be in " " or ' ' ?


I used ' ' in my original script, but personally, I think the japanese brackets look nicer o_O
彼らの任務は一つ。
友軍のために死ぬこと。
誰にも知られることなく、散っていく命がありました。
決して語られることのない戦いがありました。
明日さえも見えない絶望の中で、今日を生きる権利すら奪われた戦士たち。
守るべき祖国から捨てられ、戦争の大義も、勝利の栄光も、自らの名前さえも奪われた戦士たち。
そして、理想を追い求め、自らの手を血に染める戦士たち。
戦場という絶望の中で、彼らが見た希望とは何だったのでしょうか?
そして、彼らが守り抜いたものとは、何だったでしょうか?
死か、それとも解放か?
これは、歴史を変えた名もなき戦士たちの物語。

-戦場のヴァルキュリア3-
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Darklor
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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by Darklor »

Hmm then how would be

I expressed my thoughts very tactfully. How should I phrase it, that was all I could do.

?

(Hmm somehow I do want put something like a "say" into the sentence ;))
Please don't mind my bad english since I'm german.

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ShadowZeroHeart
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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

Well, not sure if it is of much help, but i would believe that Yuto tries not to hurt Haruka's feelings in any way(despite the fact that she SHOULD know how powerful her drawings are), and so he "tactfully" expresses his opinions, while trying his best to make truthful comments about the drawing.

So i believe the "did my best" part refers to being truthful and not hurting Haruka's feelings as far as possible, he can hardly think of any other way to phrase his opinions. Or so i believe? Maybe that will help you guys decide on what to insert into that slot there...

And Krikit,

Krikit wrote:Can I get someone to double check if 腕曲的 should be used here? It doesn't make much sense to me.

It's like... arm + music + teki(an ending which turns a word into a...characteristic I guess is how you'd describe it. kind of like, patriotic, satanic, overwhelming, etc)

And it doesn't make any sense...can someone check the Japanese novel to see if this is actually the correct sentence?


Yes, u can take them to be arm+music+teki, but chinese/japanese may have several meanings for a single word. The actual meanings i believe, would be 委(婉), 彎(曲), 的, in a sense should you really want to separate them into different wordings. The first set means to try to make things easier to accept, the second is bent, as in indirect? So it would mean tactful, to avoid direct hurtful encounters in a sense? However, please do not break words up entirely in this manner as most of the time it is difficult, if not impossible to understand its meaning otherwise.
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Krikit
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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by Krikit »

@Shadow: Thanks for the clarification :mrgreen:

As for the kanji though, we had found out that it was an OCR problem, as the kanji in the text was 腕 (ude) when it really should have been 婉 (en) The difference is that the left side of "ude" has the symbol: 月 while the left side of "en" has the symbol 女. This helped the clarification so we could get a correct translation ^_^

So I'll agree with all of you above, that tactfully works. It's not a super important sentence, so it just needs a clean translation, and I think we've achieved that thanks to all the help of you guys above me ( :mrgreen: )
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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

Krikit wrote:@Shadow: Thanks for the clarification :mrgreen:

As for the kanji though, we had found out that it was an OCR problem, as the kanji in the text was 腕 (ude) when it really should have been 婉 (en) The difference is that the left side of "ude" has the symbol: 月 while the left side of "en" has the symbol 女. This helped the clarification so we could get a correct translation ^_^

So I'll agree with all of you above, that tactfully works. It's not a super important sentence, so it just needs a clean translation, and I think we've achieved that thanks to all the help of you guys above me ( :mrgreen: )


Your welcome, i may not have time to read through and proof-read everything, so just drop me a note should you need any help in any way, will try my best to make up for the lack of translations due to the new school term as far as possible.

Besides, someone made me Admin for this forums just so he can get away with it all...
*Stares at a certain someone, or rather, a certain demon(oni if expressed in japanese)*
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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Darklor
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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by Darklor »

Uhm btw. did we get a conclusion how the sentence should be translated? :?

Variations:

1st Part:

I expressed my thoughts very tactfully. or I expressed my opinion very tactfully.

2nd Part:

How should I put it, that was all I could do.

How should I phrase it, that was all I could do.

but this was already the best I could do.

but this was already the best I could say.

but this is already the limit.

All-in-one version:

It was all I could do to express my opinion tactfully.


-------

I have in this regard a little difficulty to make a decision, since I am no translator or a native english speaker. (But somehow I do like this moment the form of last version the best)

And I am thinking along the line of:

This was the best way I could take to express my thoughts very tactfully. Or

This was the best I could say to express my thoughts very tactfully.

(I know its not really an important sentence but since it was the last untranslated one... ;)) But...

Whats your opinion? or change it in the wiki the way you do like it and know its right.
Please don't mind my bad english since I'm german.

Darklor

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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by Krikit »

Sorry, don't know how this post slipped through my radar...O_o

I expressed my own opinions very tactfully, but this was already the best I could say.


That's what it is at the wiki right now, and it just sounds strange..."already the best I could say" really seems wierd....

maybe:

It's embarrassing to say it myself, but I'm rather confident about that piece of art!"

Nogizaka-san continued.

"..."

Is she serious?

I stared at Nogizaka-san.

The look in her eyes was extremely serious.

There was no look in the world that could be more serious than that.

"..."

Well, no point picking out her faults, no one's perfect after all!

"...Hmm, that's a really creative and outstanding piece of work, I like it! I think I see a hint of Picasso's 「Guernica」 in it."

I tried to express my own opinion tactfully, but that was the best I could do.
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Darklor
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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by Darklor »

That's what it is at the wiki right now, and it just sounds strange..."already the best I could say" really seems wierd....


Sorry that was my fault, as I replaced the japanese sentence with a english I had at those moment only Shadows translation and thought "say" sounds somehow better then "do"...

I tried to express my own opinion tactfully, but that was the best I could do.


I dont think there was a tried in the sentence right? Or was really a tried in it?

Then maybe

"The best I could do was to express my thoughts (or opinion) very tactfully." ? or in the other order what would be the comeback of Shadows first translation

"I expressed my own thoughts (or opinion(s)) very tactfully, but that was the best I could do." or a version with the limit

"I expressed my own opinions (or thoughts) very tactfully, but this was already the limit of what I could do."
Please don't mind my bad english since I'm german.

Darklor

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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by dragonst »

"I to express my own opinion tactfully, but that was the best I could do."

I like the version without the 'tried'.
彼らの任務は一つ。
友軍のために死ぬこと。
誰にも知られることなく、散っていく命がありました。
決して語られることのない戦いがありました。
明日さえも見えない絶望の中で、今日を生きる権利すら奪われた戦士たち。
守るべき祖国から捨てられ、戦争の大義も、勝利の栄光も、自らの名前さえも奪われた戦士たち。
そして、理想を追い求め、自らの手を血に染める戦士たち。
戦場という絶望の中で、彼らが見た希望とは何だったのでしょうか?
そして、彼らが守り抜いたものとは、何だったでしょうか?
死か、それとも解放か?
これは、歴史を変えた名もなき戦士たちの物語。

-戦場のヴァルキュリア3-
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ShadowZeroHeart
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Re: Volume 1 Chapter 1

Post by ShadowZeroHeart »

dragonst wrote:"I to express my own opinion tactfully, but that was the best I could do."

I like the version without the 'tried'.


I assume you mean "I express my own opinion tactfully, but that was the best I could do."
God!!
You need not forgive me.
For those I love,
The violence brought about by sinful men
Shall now be used once more.
If you were created to save this world,
If there is a single shred of hope left for the future of mankind,
I am very sorry, but, please begone!
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