SISTERS speech pattern

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Darklor
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SISTERS speech pattern

Post by Darklor »

How do you think should be the speech pattern for the SISTERS? The Reason for this question is:
Teh_ping wrote:
Another thing that Joay and I want to discuss and standardise now is the speech pattern of the SISTERs and especially LO. Joay's opinion is this:
joay_b wrote:Hmm, that one's a toughie. Not only we're setting on a single speech pattern for Last Order, we're setting also a single speech pattern for the rest of the Sisters.

The best I can think for now is to compile a sampling of what the Sisters said (including Last Order), open a thread for this one, and discuss from there.

But here's my sample ...

「ミサカは一人でもタクシーに乗れるもん、ってミサカはミサカは胸を張って宣言してみる」

" 'Misaka can ride in the taxi alone', says Misaka as Misaka tries to announce with pride."
and I want to change to it, so editors, please?
Please don't mind my bad english since I'm german.

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Re: SISTERS speech pattern

Post by Darklor »

Enigma wrote:
Teh_ping wrote:Another thing that Joay and I want to discuss and standardise now is the speech pattern of the SISTERs and especially LO.

I want to change to it, so editors, please?
I was actually going to bring this up after we settled the other issues (although I was also going to do so before them...), so this saves me the trouble, I suppose.

Though concerned that this'll completely derail the thread, I did come across one issue. Basically, Last Order uses her "Misaka wa Misaka wa" without the quoting particle, so I improvised. I also did a quick search through volumes 12, 13, and 15 to use as a reference, but she doesn't appear to do it anywhere else. Anyway, the English and Japanese texts:
Spoiler! :
Japanese text wrote:『まぁまぁまぁまぁ、ってミサカはミサカはなだめてみたり。気恥ずかしいのは分かるけどミサカはミサカはちゃんとバスタオル装備してるんだから。あんまり意識すると逆にキツイぞ、ってミサカはミサカは人生の先輩としてアドバイスを贈ってみる』
Translated text wrote:“‘Don’t be agitated, don’t be agitated,’ says Misaka as Misaka comforts you. ‘Misaka knows that you’re embarrassed,’ although Misaka verifies Misaka is properly wrapped in a bath towel. ‘The atmosphere will be even more awkward if you’re mindful of it,’ says Misaka as Misaka gives advice as a lifetime elder.”
So, it'd be nice if I could get a translator's opinion on how to make it work better.

Edit: While I'm derailing the thread horrifically, I might as well ask what you two (Ping and Joay) think of the furigana font I was doing for volume 13 (where instead of having a meaning in parentheses, it's above the text in a smaller text) that I pretty much stole from a certain other Baka-tsuki project. All I know it does is make the pdf-making people annoyed.
Enigma wrote:
Darklor wrote:Also wasnt she the one who says Miska Misaka?
Last Order does emphasize Misaka twice, but it isn't just "Misaka Misaka (ミサカミサカ)", but something that doesn't translate all that well (ミサカはミサカは). Wow, look at me like, acting as if I actually have enough knowledge on the language to try to explain it. I wonder how Funimation is going to handle it... (Assuming they haven't already and I'm out of date.)
Please don't mind my bad english since I'm german.

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Re: SISTERS speech pattern

Post by Darklor »

Darklor wrote:
Hmm too bad in the english wiki they have it only as:
Like her older clone sisters, she speaks in third person with a description, except she says "Misaka" twice.
Kadi wrote:Well, in Japanese, it's Misaka ha/wa Misaka ha/wa. ha/wa is the so called topic particle, so the word before the particle sets the topic for the sentence. It can be similar to the subject of a sentence, but it's far from limited to that. And I think that why they are hesitant about just repeating Misaka twice for Last Order.
Darklor wrote:But this particle has no counterpart in the Englih language?
Kadi wrote:Nope, there's no counterpart. You might be able to create a workaround that works wherever "ha/wa" comes up, but that would be totally messy. Like "Regarding the topic of Misaka regarding the topic of Misaka...". You get the point.

Ohh, I could have mentioned it earlier, but (because of that ha/wa particle), Japanese can be categorized as topic-based/-centric language or whatever it was called, and most Western languages should be subject-based/-centric, indicating that there are no real equivalents.
btw. this is no tripple post - I just added those contributions too this problematic from the other thread (I dont know how I could have it done otherwise)
Please don't mind my bad english since I'm german.

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Re: SISTERS speech pattern

Post by SilverPhyX »

Wait, I'm getting slightly confused. So far, all the samples are from LO, right? None of the SISTERS have been included? How do the SISTERS speak differently, then?

I've always thought the SISTERS speak like that because they're all tapped into the same mental network, so it's kind of like always having another person observing you doing things while you do then. And LO adds a layer on top because she is watching the SISTERS watching her. I'm not sure how that would help, but it might give some ideas.

I think the translations are actually pretty good, and at least conveys that third-person narration aspect I mentioned above.
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Re: SISTERS speech pattern

Post by Enigma »

SilverPhyX wrote:Wait, I'm getting slightly confused. So far, all the samples are from LO, right? None of the SISTERS have been included? How do the SISTERS speak differently, then?
The Sisters in general speak more simply (well, shorter sentences) and politely than Last Order. For example, Last Order says って (tte) before her third-person narrative begins, which I believe is the less formal version in comparison to the verbal quoting particle the Sisters use, which is と (to). The Sisters also usually end their sentences in ます (masu), which is just a general polite end to a sentence, whereas Last Order mixes it up a bit but without the politeness. I'd give examples, but as I'm not sure what one of the common ones does, I can't exactly explain it. That's my take on the subject, anyway.
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Re: SISTERS speech pattern

Post by Snorca »

From what I gather, the issue with Last Order is whether to use "Misaka Misaka" when she narrates herself or use "says Misaka as Misaka *does something*"? Personally, considering how the Misaka clones are considered an oddity, any way you use to translate their text cannot be considered wrong. However, the latter flows better than repeating Misaka twice and holds more resemblance to the Japanese text, right? As an editor, I must say that I'm highly against editing mannerisms. If the translator believes she just merely repeats her name twice and not reiterating her actions at the same time, then I won't disagree.

So yeah, I'm not entirely sure what the request for help is, but I think everything's been fine so far.
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Re: SISTERS speech pattern

Post by Tact »

This is what I'd like...

An example for the SISTERS:
"'Acknowledged,' as Misaka would brandish her weapon."
The use of "would" can fit with their politeness. This also saves translators/editors the trouble of figuring out the tense for the verb following "would".

An example for Last Order:
"'Yay!' says Misaka as Misaka waves her hands in the air."
Note the present tense of the verb following "says Misaka as Misaka".
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Re: SISTERS speech pattern

Post by Snorca »

Haha, I don't think tense is an issue here since Misaka Clone and Last Order would perform their action while saying it. Their speech should usually be in present tense unless they're talking about past stuff.
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