High School DxD - Names and Terminology

[chancs]

With the recent hot topic for the discussion over regular forum page, this new topic is created for further discussions.

the current topic under discussion is regarding usage of 'Devil' or 'Demon' for the series.

Re posting from the forum

using txts such as 'devil sword' won't be fitting the situation. What I conclude is that use 'devil' to represent a person and use 'demon/demonic' as per the line up for representing the nature of power or other.

This discussion is in continuation from High School DxD

[Kadi]

The discussion in the original thread stopped on page 32. In case you ever need to find it again in a month or something.


My 2.5 cents: The "demonic swords" were mentioned in the original thread as an argument to render akuma as demon. I believe the Japanese calls those swords "Maken" which doesn't necessarily have a connection to something evil. The ken is the sword, but I think the Ma can be just "magic" instead. It's the same Ma that Majutsu, Mahou, Madou and whatever also use (all words for magic). Notice that supposed magic and witchcraft always had a... bad reputation and I believe that's where the "evil" translation of Maken as demonic/cursed sword stems from.

(I conveniently ignored that the Maken inside the story aren't just magical but essentially devilish/demonic and opposed to holy swords dedicated to god)


Edit: Also, stickied.

[an0nymous]

Though both devils and demons have been used for Akuma in other works, the "Extra Demons" appearing in Volume 10 is the tipping point.
Since Extra Demons 番外の悪魔（エキストラ・デーモン）comes from the author, it gives a direct correspondence between "demon" and "akuma."
A Rosetta Stone phrase, so to speak.
How else would they be "extra" if everyone else are "devils"?

Also, choosing to leave "youkai" untranslated (they show up in later novels) would free up the word "demon."

To those who are referencing the Bible, the Devil is always singular and refers to one entity only -- Satan.
On the other hand, demons are multiple and occur throughout the Bible.
As a name for a race, demon definitely works better than devil in reference to the Bible.

[Mystes]

With the recent hot topic for the discussion over regular forum page, this new topic is created for further discussions.

the current topic under discussion is regarding usage of 'Devil' or 'Demon' for the series.

Re posting from the forum

using txts such as 'devil sword' won't be fitting the situation. What I conclude is that use 'devil' to represent a person and use 'demon/demonic' as per the line up for representing the nature of power or other.

This discussion is in continuation from High School DxD

You could use both depending on the situation too.

[Hiro Hayase]

You could use both depending on the situation too.

Background knowledge for people unfamiliar with High School DxD that wish to give their input: There was a war between three sides in High School DxD, Angels vs Fallen Angels vs Devils. We're having trouble deciding whether we should use devil or demon as the official translation of Akuma. Akuma means both devil/demon, the Japanese do not differentiate between the two. Similar to how nezumi means both rat/mouse.

@kira0802 That seems like the most likely solution to this.

Under the context of a religious conflict, it would be fitting to use devil.

However, devil is most commonly used to refer to Satan Lucifer and used in a singular way, in High School DxD that was the ex-Satan who is now replaced by Sirzechs as Maou. Although demon is more plural and has a more broad definition that includes djinn, ghost, goblin, hellion, imp, daemon, succubus, vampire and so on.

However, the title for volume 1 has diablos in it. Diabolism is the worship of the devil.

How about we do this, keep using devils and consider demons as the more modernized form of devils? Calling the old-maou faction something actually shows how detached both the devil society and cast away devils are. It shows their relationship very well I think. The devil society refuses to consider them the same as them. Or use demons and consider devils as the ancient term for demons.


P.S. I think you guys get what I'm trying to convey, right?

[chancs]

How about we do this, keep using devils and consider demons as the more modernized form of devils? Calling the old-maou faction something actually shows how detached both the devil society and cast away devils are. It shows their relationship very well I think. The devil society refuses to consider them the same as them. Or use demons and consider devils as the ancient term for demons.


P.S. I think you guys get what I'm trying to convey, right?

since we haven't reached to that were old-maou faction is introduced, 'can't say anything abt that. I ask to all a very simple question which might bring out the solution to this problem. Which one of these sounds much more evil, 'Devil' or 'Demon'. The one which sounds more evil shouldn't be used. You can't represent the protagonist or any other by that tag.

[sleepy920]

Edit 3: http://ishibumi.exblog.jp/i32/ According to the author's blog he uses the word devil? Can anyone double-check for me? Meanwhile, I'm holding back on all the changes.

From this link, Akuma confirmed that he uses devil and if my live search translation is correct (knowing I wouldn't remember Japanese writing even with years of studying) he also uses extra demons. Although when refering to devils it was about the 72 pillars and if any one can translate these that is under extra demons.

ベルフェゴール
アバドン
ルキフグス
グレイフィア・ルキフグス
メフィスト・フェレス
他

If anything on there doesn't change anything, I say do things as is leaving it at devils.

[Mystes]

@chancs "devil" and "demon" all sound evil and scary, IMO. Though I think that "demon" would be more "Oni" in Japanese rather than "Akuma". But your choice.

[chancs]

@chancs "devil" and "demon" all sound evil and scary, IMO. Though I think that "demon" would be more "Oni" in Japanese rather than "Akuma". But your choice.

there exists a very thin membrane between the two.

[Code-Zero]

I guess we should leave it as a "devil" for now. Since the author used that word maybe we should stick with it.

[Hiro Hayase]

Also, we're using high-class, mid-class, low-class to refer to the social hierarchical in devil society. Don't use top-class anymore, use high-class.

To clarify Gasper's Sacred Gear is called Forbidden Balor View, not Forbidden Valor View. Balor is the name of a one-eyed demon in Celtic Mythology, its more fitting to use that.

Edit: We're also using years instead of grades to refer to the main cast. For example 11th grader will now be 2nd year, in order to stay true to the Japanese version. The title of the this work is called "High School DxD" for a reason. Hence, it's fairly self-explanatory that all of the main cast is in high school. When in doubt you can be specific and say 2nd year high school student.

[Gohankuten]

Might not be my place to say it but why not just leave it as akuma instead of translating it and put a note with it for saying what akuma can translate to and why it was decided to leave it as akuma was because you weren't certain if it should be devil or demon. Though I do think that demon fits better than devil for Angels vs Fallen Angels vs Demons since if I remember right from the bible it was demons that were multiple as there was only 1 devil. It was always said that the apocalypse would be Jesus and the angels vs the anti-christ and his army of demons. But I am still for having it be just untranslated and left as akuma. Kinda like I prefer leaving it as yokai instead of it being changed to monsters or something in mangas.

[Hiro Hayase]

I added Devil Society Social Classes to the guidelines since there was some misconception regarding it. This should clear up the confusion.

The social classes are as followed:

Ultimate Class - Maou, Great King, Arch Duke, Prince/Princess.

High Class - Marguess, Margrave/Margravine, Count/Countess, Viscount/Viscountess, Baron/Baroness.

Mid Class - Baronet/Baronetess, Knight/Dame.

Low Class - Newly reincarnated devils.


Another note: The reason we're using Kuou Academy over Kuou High School is due to the fact that it has a college, high school, and middle school division. And because most of the fans liked the usage of Academy and it also stayed true to the original meaning as well as encompassing all of the criteria above. The initial word was Kuou Gakuen which translates into Kuou School. Academy means a place of learning a.k.a. school.


Edit: About Ise's promotion test. The author used to refer to it as a high class promotion test in earlier volumes, but later changed it to mid class promotion test in volume 11. Apparently you can't skip ranks as we initially thought.

[zzhk]

Azazel's title: 堕天使の総督

This isn't a pressing issue (yet) since Azazel only makes his first appearance in Volume 4, but needs to be standardized.

So far Azazel's title has been variously translated as Governor, Governor-General and Viceroy. These terms are all acceptable since they have been used elsewhere to translate historical official positions, but one needs to be picked for consistency.

However, one minor dissonance is that these terms imply Azazel is ruling on someone's behalf, which isn't really the case. In particular, viceroy means royal representative and implies some sort of king as a superior. (Of course, it can be explained as a title inherited from his days under God's service, but that would be mere speculation.)

Commander-in-chief might work, though it emphasizes the military aspect over civil administration. President, Premier or Chancellor would seem to lean too much towards the civil side. Fuhrer and dictator, on the other hand, may have too much of a Nazi connotation.

[Hiro Hayase]

We could also use administrator, director, CEO, premier, chief, overseer, supervisor, despot, top dog, or superintendent. But Code-Zero said to go with Governor since its easier that way and the second in command will be called Vice-Governor. Although, I personally want to call Azazel despot-san after reading volume 8.

Viceroy makes me think of Roy Mustang from Full Metal Alchemist lol.

To reiterate again use Governor as Azazel's title. Vice-Governor for his second in command.


P.S. Also in lieu of the of the whole noble class system setting in the LN we're using British English for all the translations.